The Wayne Bennett Super thread!

[lynx000]

I think the initial signs are that Boyd is making a better fist of dealing with his issues then Barba appears to be. Boyd has come out and acknowledged his problems, gone through a full rehab/counselling program, has been very open in interviews about his battle and what he is doing to overcome it.

Barba never went close to completing his program, in my view has never really seemed to own up to his issues and acknowledge them in any meaningful way. He seems to have an ongoing serious injury which is impacting his performances. Finally, I note that although he was not the player named as misbehaving, he was out on the town in Cronulla with an illustrious crew on the piss on the weekend. Which would be a worrying sign for me if I was his coach with knowledge of the past history.

Regarding Vidot, I like him, but I think the boat might have sailed now on Vidot establishing himself as an elite player. His next club will be his fourth club, there were definite issues at Canberra and he never appeared to settle at St George. He has flaws in his game which given his age may now be difficult to resolve by coaching. I will be pleasantly surprised if he goes on to star somewhere else, but I don't expect to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Ari Gold]

One thing I will give WB a lot of credit for is using our bench. Griffin's use was a joke. Thaiday there is a good move because he deserves a starting spot much less than our starting three backrowers. Wallace is coming along well, Joe is getting a game and with injuries and what not Kodi is proving to be very useful.

Obviously, this excludes the selection of Whitchurch. But it's exponentially better than what Griffin did.

 

[Big Pete]

In turn, it really bodes well for our depth and that's where I believe we've been struggling for sometime.

From 2013-14, we had a squad of 13. Sure, there were others who could come in, but even if they played well, it was a squad of 13. Now, we've got these players getting a go, got a bunch of talented players vying for spots and more coming through the ranks.

And that was what seperated us from a lot of teams back in the day.

We could lose a Petero Civoniceiva and we'd just call in a young Sam Thaiday who'd surprise people.

TC? There's Costigan and he can produce a big performance.

So on and so forth.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Gotta say, the knights seem to be really thriving post bennett. Only undefeated team so far. Seems Stone is getting far more out of a few players that bennett couldnt.

Uate is absolutely on fire this year. He got progressively worse under bennett, to the point of being dropped.
Snowden is back to, if not better than, his form from way back at the sharks. Under bennett he was mediocre at best. This year he is one of the form props of the comp.
Gidley, back in his rightful position of fullback, is back in form and playing good footy. Without boyd there to steal his spot he can do what he does best.

Knights fans are laughing at the moment. Not only did they get rid of a bad coach (for the time he was at their club), but they also got rid of one of their least liked players in boyd, and they are thriving because of it.

 

[Big Pete]

Yeah, I think Stone's a pretty decent coach. I thought he did quite well to navigate a pretty ordinary squad into the 2011 finals even when Bennett was making decisions that affected the team.

However, he's had it a lot easier than Bennett in terms of fortune and the quality of opposition.

 

[Splinter]

Gotta say, the knights seem to be really thriving post bennett. Only undefeated team so far. Seems Stone is getting far more out of a few players that bennett couldnt.

Uate is absolutely on fire this year. He got progressively worse under bennett, to the point of being dropped.
Snowden is back to, if not better than, his form from way back at the sharks. Under bennett he was mediocre at best. This year he is one of the form props of the comp.
Gidley, back in his rightful position of fullback, is back in form and playing good footy. Without boyd there to steal his spot he can do what he does best.

Knights fans are laughing at the moment. Not only did they get rid of a bad coach (for the time he was at their club), but they also got rid of one of their least liked players in boyd, and they are thriving because of it.

I will accept the first two as being better this year but Gidley is still making errors. Please pick him for the blues this year

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

I will accept the first two as being better this year but Gidley is still making errors. Please pick him for the blues this year

Hes still making errors, but the fact he wasnt used there last year when boyd was horribly out of form was a big mistake imo. he is best for them when he is fb. The team plays much better with him at the back

 

[Ari Gold]

Sorry, but it's a bit of a lie to say Kidley is playing fullback this year. He starts there but after 20mins Sione comes on and goes to fullback whilst Kurt plays hooker.

 

[Socnorb]

Gotta say, the knights seem to be really thriving post bennett. Only undefeated team so far. Seems Stone is getting far more out of a few players that bennett couldnt.

Uate is absolutely on fire this year. He got progressively worse under bennett, to the point of being dropped.
Snowden is back to, if not better than, his form from way back at the sharks. Under bennett he was mediocre at best. This year he is one of the form props of the comp.
Gidley, back in his rightful position of fullback, is back in form and playing good footy. Without boyd there to steal his spot he can do what he does best.

Knights fans are laughing at the moment. Not only did they get rid of a bad coach (for the time he was at their club), but they also got rid of one of their least liked players in boyd, and they are thriving because of it.

Haha I was wondering how long it would take for this one. Knightslander, you resisted for 4 rounds just couldn't hold out any longer.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Sorry, but it's a bit of a lie to say Kidley is playing fullback this year. He starts there but after 20mins Sione comes on and goes to fullback whilst Kurt plays hooker.

Interesting definition of a "lie" i must admit. Hes named there, he plays there (even if it was for 24 or 31 mins in round 2 and 3) and in their most recent win he played there the entire game.

That aside, the team looks better with him (or matautia) there then they did with boyd. The team is playing the house down, makes you wonder why they couldnt perform like this for "the best coach in the game"

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Haha I was wondering how long it would take for this one. Knightslander, you resisted for 4 rounds just couldn't hold out any longer.

Do you disagree with any of my points tho? Its a fair observation isnt it?

 

[Ari Gold]

Kidley has played less fullback this year than Sione so in that sense I think it's misleading. Hence I said bit of a lie rather than a full lie!

 

[Socnorb]

Do you disagree with any of my points tho? Its a fair observation isnt it?

If I thought bennett was rubbish I'd probably jump on it too. Knights are doing well so far, but it could be equally argued that its because of Bennetts legacy blah blah blah. Now I know i'm not going to convince you of that.

 

[Huge]

Of course I don't think he's worth 900$K next year. At least, not at this stage.
Yes Barba was a liability at fullback last year, but so was Boyd.

Do I think he will outplay Boyd this season?
I honestly don't know. Boyd has the consistency over the years, although he has been declining over the last couple of them, and was imo never a great FB outside of one very good year at the Dragons.
Barba has more upside, but only if (and that is a big if) he is able to return to his best.

To repeat what I said quite a few times, and given my opinion on the matter has not changed at all:
I would have wanted to see what Barba would've been capable of under Bennett and I definitely don' t think we needed Boyd, regardless of keeping Barba or not, as we had Milford, Hunt, Kahu, Taylor and the Nikorimas with whom I am convinced we could develop an excellent spine.
My biggest worry has always been that Boyd may well cost us one of those youngsters, not Barba.

EDIT: Baiting

No one denies Boyd had a troubled 2014 but describing it as part of a decline which goes back further is totally wrong. Boyd won the 2013 players player award a Newcastle and he played full back. Now that is definitely not a decline ! He had a very good year as a fullback in 2013 improving on 2012 so it's the reverse of a decline up till his troubled 2014. I would call 2014 an aberration and think a happy Boyd may just be worth his weight in gold.

 

[Porthoz]

Of course I have a bias, and of course it will colour my argument. It's how opinions are formed!
Fun fact: I already had this opinion before Bennett and Boyd were talked about coming to the Broncos.

So, let me make very clear what that opinion is, based on what I saw in most games he played since he left the Broncos:

- He is a very good winger and an average fullback at best.
- With the exception of 2010 at the Dragons, where he admittedly was quite good, and probably a top 4 NRL fullback, he has been in the bottom 8 fullbacks in the competition every year since then.

In regards to the decline, while 2013 was better than 2012, it doesn't mean the trend isn't pointing downwards.

The funny part is, that as always, you only pick and chose what you think you can argue, but leave the rest of the post alone. Is that because you agree with it?

Also, are you capable of answering a post without having a dig at the poster's personality, intelligence, or character?
If so, we can maintain a discussion, otherwise, I will just go back to blissfully ignoring your baits.

 

[rnabokov]

My rather simplistic view is that Bennett and Boyd are back where they belong - Brisbane and Queensland.

I have made it clear I don't think we needed Boyd, but we have him, and if there's anyone, and any place where he will come into his own, it is at the Broncos.

I just hope we don't lose Kahu because of it

 

[Huge]

Of course I have a bias, and of course it will colour my argument. It's how opinions are formed!
Fun fact: I already had this opinion before Bennett and Boyd were talked about coming to the Broncos.

So, let me make very clear what that opinion is, based on what I saw in most games he played since he left the Broncos:

- He is a very good winger and an average fullback at best.
- With the exception of 2010 at the Dragons, where he admittedly was quite good, and probably a top 4 NRL fullback, he has been in the bottom 8 fullbacks in the competition every year since then.

In regards to the decline, while 2013 was better than 2012, it doesn't mean the trend isn't pointing downwards.

The funny part is, that as always, you only pick and chose what you think you can argue, but leave the rest of the post alone. Is that because you agree with it?

Also, are you capable of answering a post without having a dig at the poster's personality, intelligence, or character?
If so, we can maintain a discussion, otherwise, I will just go back to blissfully ignoring your baits.

I didn't have a dig at your personality,intelligence or character. I highlighted how a bias influences your posts. So even if getting better it's still getting worse ? He was the Newcastles NRL Player of the Year award,clearly that's an improvement over the previous season. What I'm getting at is you clearly have used false information to 'prove' your argument. That maybe because of a previously held bias. This bias allowed you to overlook the false information. Another great example of your bias is how you grudgingly acknowledge 2010 as a good year as a fullback. He was the best fullback that year, not just top four but third in the Dally M and the highest ranked fullback. His nearest player in a comparable position was Billy Slater, a distant 10 th and 8 Dally M votes behind. Hopefully in the spirit of full disclosure you'll acknowledge your bias against him.

The rest of your post was just your view which I feel you're entitled to hold and I had no opinion either way. I was simply pointing out the factual error. Which would you rather be ? Correct or always right ?

 

[Porthoz]

There was no grudge in my acknowledgement. Boyd was one of the best fullbacks in 2010, period.

Let's not restart the Dally M discussion, as while it certainly rewards players for their performance throughout a season, it also very often highlights a player as the clear best at his club, while "hiding" better players at clubs where they share the highlight. Slater for example had to compete with Cameron Smith and Cronk for his Dally M tally.

Was Boyd the best that season?
I don't think so, as Slater was superb in a superb team, Gordon had an excellent year at the Panthers and that was by far Dugan's best season too imo.

However, since then, Boyd has not come close to replicating that season, and has gradually been worse, and even if his 2013 was better than 2012, it still wasn't that much to write about, and was still in the bottom 8 fullbacks in the comp.

What you call bias, I call an opinion based on how I view Rugby League, and in particular the Fullback position. It's nothing personal against Boyd, much less against Bennett.
But if you keep insisting it is, could it be because of your bias that anything related to Bennett is immaculate...?