RANT Transgender inclusion in sports.

[Strop]

I think it’s a giant load of bollocks.

 

[gUt]

lots of racists in this thread

 

[IceWorks]

Sure are. A lot of people don't like kiwis.. especially if they might win a medal.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Why not just make a new category and run with three: men, women, those somewhere in between

Problem solvered.

Exactly...seems a no brainer.

Male
Female
Other

 

[Organix]

lots of racists in this thread

wut? who? why? Kiwi is a race now? I'm so confused.

 

[Organix]

To the question: I think this is a great representation of first world privilege. Honestly, most people understand that some things in life come at a sacrifice of others. It just so happens that being born male and identifying as female now has the advantage of a scientific solution. However, there really should be a weighing up of priorities for athletes. By that I mean, is it more important for the athlete to compete or to be the gender they desire? It is unfortunately the case that in some sports there are no inherent balances built into the sport regarding one particular attribute. In the case of weightlifting, strength cannot really be balanced by speed, for example.
In this case, there is an ego issue that is IMO using a manipulation of good faith to achieve an unfair advantage. In a similar way to using blood transfusions, which, while technically not doping, provides the athlete with an unfair physical advantage.

One may then pose the question: why can't you have both? Well, perhaps in some circumstances you can. It could be possible for a woman to transition to a male and play rugby league, for example, because ball skills and speed balance strength in some way. However, realistically, in a sport where this balance cannot be achieved, it should be regarded as doping and perhaps a new forum should be made wherein women are allowed to do HGH up to X years leading up to the event, but not within that period, in order to gain muscle mass. I am sure many athletes seek for an advantage, but realistically, biologically, transitioning from a male at 27 to then compete as a female at 35 is quite similar to a woman using PEDs from 27 to 35, or from 18 to 27 to then stop for the next 8 years perhaps. Again, there the athletes make a choice as to whether they want to risk damaging their body to succeed in a sport.

For the athletes, it should be regarded as a sacrifice. Either compete in your sport fairly, or transition to your desired gender. Unless there are verified balancing measures inherent in the sport.

 

[Organix]

I gotta say mate, I love all of your posts. So refreshing to read well constructed ideas and arguments without any malice and dealing with the root issues of whatever the topic you discuss. Credit to you mate.

Thanks, mate. I try my best. Been reading a lot since we've had lockdown in Germany for about a year now. Had a lot of time to find my compass and figure out where I stand on a lot of issues.

Still get roped into some of the hype and culture war stuff, because it's pretty well designed. Honestly though, the biggest benefit is being outside of Australia looking in. No offense, but it's such a media bubble there and it's really easy to see talking points being regurgitated when you have a bit of a delay in the transmission and have a wider media selection.

Plus, I tune out the German news because it takes that little extra effort to listen to it, so I also miss that propaganda. That helps me spot it here too, funnily enough.

Anyway, it's really nice to be appreciated like that, so thank you too. I am sure one day I will have a really shit take, but I will try own it when I realise haha

 

[john1420]

Honest question here,
If you made a rule that a transgender athlete can't compete, is there anything to stop an athlete transitioning privately? I guess it couldn't be done because someone would always know and eventually someone would blow the whistle I suppose, but just wondering

 

[Midean]

Honest question here,
If you made a rule that a transgender athlete can't compete, is there anything to stop an athlete transitioning privately? I guess it couldn't be done because someone would always know and eventually someone would blow the whistle I suppose, but just wondering

The testing is thorough. All Olympic athletes go through a process called gender testing which involves examining genitals, chromosomes, and testosterone levels.
There have been several cases in Olympic history of female athletes competing while having male dominant genes.
Foekje Dillema was tested (1949) and found to have the typical female phenotype and was thus a woman, but when she died, further tests where done as she was a very masculine woman and it was found she had an extra Y chromosome that these days would be called a genetic mosaic.

This is where it all stated with the gender testing as it was determined she would have had an unfair advantage against purely female competitors due to a higher level of testosterone.

Caster Semenya is the latest case of this situation in Olympic sports, and she is also a female, but falls under the classification of a genetic mosaic due to the presence of the extra Y chromosome.
She has to take hormone lowering drugs in order to be allowed to compete in female events.

So how on earth does a transgender male to female athlete get to participate in a female event, given that even though their current hormone levels fall into typical female ranges, he/she has lived most of their life as a male and their body has developed accordingly due to higher testosterone levels.

Its woke culture taking priority over science and that is insanity.

 

[Midean]

I gotta say mate, I love all of your posts. So refreshing to read well constructed ideas and arguments without any malice and dealing with the root issues of whatever the topic you discuss. Credit to you mate.

Ditto and well said, its good to read well informed opinions.
I tend to let emotion dictate a lot of my posts so i could learn a thing or two from Organix.

 

[Midean]

Fucking South Park absolutely nailing this topic right here.

 

[john1420]

The testing is thorough. All Olympic athletes go through a process called gender testing which involves examining genitals, chromosomes, and testosterone levels.
There have been several cases in Olympic history of female athletes competing while having male dominant genes.
Foekje Dillema was tested (1949) and found to have the typical female phenotype and was thus a woman, but when she died, further tests where done as she was a very masculine woman and it was found she had an extra Y chromosome that these days would be called a genetic mosaic.

This is where it all stated with the gender testing as it was determined she would have had an unfair advantage against purely female competitors due to a higher level of testosterone.

Caster Semenya is the latest case of this situation in Olympic sports, and she is also a female, but falls under the classification of a genetic mosaic due to the presence of the extra Y chromosome.
She has to take hormone lowering drugs in order to be allowed to compete in female events.

So how on earth does a transgender male to female athlete get to participate in a female event, given that even though their current hormone levels fall into typical female ranges, he/she has lived most of their life as a male and their body has developed accordingly due to higher testosterone levels.

Its woke culture taking priority over science and that is insanity.

Thanks @Midean appreciate this info.
I totally agree it's woke culture too

​

 

[WASSHHH]

I think it’s a giant load of bollocks.

I see what you did there…

Shouldn’t it be a giant load of not bollocks?

 

[Mustafur]

Not possible to equalise so it shouldn't be allowed imo, males have too much advantage and even with testosterone lowering they still have too much natural advantages from being a male beforehand.

 

[BRC088]

I'm Ok with a "Do what ever the heck you like Games", go nuts, no genders, no drug tests take what ever you want - who ever wins wins.

 

[Morkel]

I'm Ok with a "Do what ever the heck you like Games", go nuts, no genders, no drug tests take what ever you want - who ever wins wins.

Cyborgs.

 

[Unbreakable]

I haven't actually looked in to it, is this NZ weightlifting 'woman' actually competing at the games?

 

[Midean]

I haven't actually looked in to it, is this NZ weightlifting 'woman' actually competing at the games?

Yep.