Wayne Bennett related player movement discussion

[Alec]

Re: willie mason

Sorry mate, disagree.

The first priority of the pack is to assert 'middle third' dominance (at least early). If they don't do that, then you don't win. Simple.

The ideal hit up (particularly coming out of trouble or from a kick off) rotation is - prop, prop, second row, second row - each make ten yards and you kick from half way.

With two edge backrowers, it looks like this - prop (10 yards), prop (10 yards), shift to edge backrower (5 yards past ad line), shift to other edge backrower or rubbish 'unders' play from half (3 yards past ad line)....your kicking from inside the 40 all the time....t

That's been part of our problem for the last few years...even the channel 9 commentators have noticed it.

No team plays like that. Only the Faders sometimes play middle third forwards in the 2nd row, but that's because they have no one else. With 2nd rowers, you want them being good at running holes, running lines, offloading, ball playing and just generally being more mobile on the edges etc. What you want on average is 3 middle runs and then spreading the ball.

If you want to blame someone for our lack of go forward, blame Thaiday, he hasn't been putting in as a running lock.

 

[teampjta]

Re: Russel Packer - possible link to Broncos

**** NOOOOOOO hes lucky to be only serving two years,

There is NO WAY the NRL should even contemplate re-registering this dog

He may be entitled to a second chance to live among the general population, but in way should he be entitled the privilege to play in the NRL.

 

[john1420]

Re: Russel Packer - possible link to Broncos

"His barrister, Murugan Thangaraj SC, said he had no idea that magistrate Greg Grogan was even contemplating a jail sentence."

Russell Packer of the Newcastle Knights sentenced to two years' jail

You're kidding?

Savagely beat a man down, and continue while he's down, and they don't anticiapte the possibility of jail time?

Time for a new lawyer

 

[Porthoz]

Re: Russel Packer - possible link to Broncos

Unfortunately, that is more a reflection of society and how soft our judicial system has become...

 

[Brent81]

Re: willie mason

No team plays like that. Only the Faders sometimes play middle third forwards in the 2nd row, but that's because they have no one else. With 2nd rowers, you want them being good at running holes, running lines, offloading, ball playing and just generally being more mobile on the edges etc. What you want on average is 3 middle runs and then spreading the ball.

If you want to blame someone for our lack of go forward, blame Thaiday, he hasn't been putting in as a running lock.

No team have succeeded by playing two permanent wide running second rowers. Even the Roosters last year used to play a power game through the ruck with JWH, Moa, Kennedy, Nappa etc......

But don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

 

[Alec]

Re: willie mason

No team have succeeded by playing two permanent wide running second rowers. Even the Roosters last year used to play a power game through the ruck with JWH, Moa, Kennedy, Nappa etc......

But don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

Were they all on the field at the same time? Because we've got bench players too.

 

[Porthoz]

Re: willie mason

No team have succeeded by playing two permanent wide running second rowers. Even the Roosters last year used to play a power game through the ruck with JWH, Moa, Kennedy, Nappa etc......

But don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

I must have been seeing things when I saw SBW and Guerra playing close to 80 mins each on the second row... :laugh:

 

[Brent81]

Re: willie mason

Were they all on the field at the same time? Because we've got bench players too.

You sure?

lol

 

[Brent81]

Re: willie mason

I must have been seeing things when I saw SBW and Guerra playing close to 80 mins each on the second row... :laugh:

SBW doesn't play exclusive right edge. He takes runs down the middle too.

The Roosters always establish ruck dominance first, as do Souths, as do Manly etc....(that is what I said above - The first priority of the pack is to assert 'middle third' dominance (at least early). If they don't do that, then you don't win. Simple.)

The Roosters don't play two exclusive edge second rowers initially during games. Watch their structure for the first 10 minutes - JWH, Moa, FPN.....

 

[Porthoz]

Re: willie mason

SBW doesn't play exclusive right edge. He takes runs down the middle too.

The Roosters always establish ruck dominance first, as do Souths, as do Manly etc....(that is what I said above - The first priority of the pack is to assert 'middle third' dominance (at least early). If they don't do that, then you don't win. Simple.)

The Roosters don't play two exclusive edge second rowers initially during games. Watch their structure for the first 10 minutes - JWH, Moa, FPN.....

You should really quit while you're ahead. You're only burying yourself deeper.

SBW and Guerra are predominantly wide-running second-rowers. Of course they will take the occasional hit-up, as do Thaiday, Glenn, Oates and/or Gillett. Unless you're trying to say that none of them take runs down the middle...
Besides, you are forgetting how important Vidot has been for us in that regard, taking a lot of the first/second hit-ups in our sets, making him one of the top players in the comp in meters gained that way.

JWH, Moa, FPN, thus 2 props and the lock, or 3 of the 5 forwards play down the middle of the ruck. I sense you're on to something here!

 

[Brent81]

Re: willie mason

Besides, you are forgetting how important Vidot has been for us in that regard, taking a lot of the first/second hit-ups in our sets, making him one of the top players in the comp in meters gained that way.

I agree with this point entirely.

But I want to see us dominate the ruck. Unless you dominate the ruck you'll never succeed.

Our pack doesn't dominate anyone because we have a surfeit of backrowers.

We need at least one more big bopper.

Parker needs to go back to lock.

 

[Porthoz]

Re: Willie Mason

Of course, that's Rugby League 101, without conquering the ruck, you're going to have a tough time winning games.

But I really think than more than lacking size for hit-ups, our problem is ruck defense. That has been our issue for a long, long time!

Having agile second rowers or wingers taking hit-ups is not a problem, as long as we're running aggressively, getting quick play the balls and making life hard on those opposing big forwards, as we have shown in plenty of games.
But if we're not completing sets and allowing the opposition to make 70 odd meters a set, thus getting them in a position to get repeat sets and tiring fast because of it, our advantage in speed/agility quickly disappears, as the Storm game showed.

 

[Cult]

Re: Willie Mason

W also have only had one quick play he ball in the last like, 8 weeks.

 

[Morkel]

W also have only had one quick play he ball in the last like, 8 weeks.

That's coaching and homework. The better teams use tackling techniques that our coaching staff haven't even comprehended, therefore our players are easy meat when gang tackled as they have no experience or practise at counter-acting it.

 

[Danoz Direct]

Re: Willie Mason

Sooo does anyone want Mason?

 

[Super Freak]

Re: Willie Mason

Sooo does anyone want Mason?

If he came cheap and had no problem playing from the bench, I wouldn't have a problem with him coming to the club.

I don't really care how old he is. What I care about is whether he can get the job done, and Mason has been quite good for the Knights. He is not as good as he used to be, but he still plays with aggression and isn't afraid to get stuck into players.

That, and a bit more experience in the front row could benefit us.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Re: Willie Mason

If he came cheap and had no problem playing from the bench, I wouldn't have a problem with him coming to the club.

I don't really care how old he is. What I care about is whether he can get the job done, and Mason has been quite good for the Knights. He is not as good as he used to be, but he still plays with aggression and isn't afraid to get stuck into players.

That, and a bit more experience in the front row could benefit us.

Yeah....I've always thought of Mason as a bit of a shit ****, but he's kinda impressed with the way he has come back into the NRL at the Knights. Definitely seems to have matured and I think is working harder at his game now than he ever has.

I think he'd be a positive influence on our younger forward pack. Have to be for the right money of course.

What's he on .....200K ?

 

[Big Pete]

Re: Willie Mason

After signing Mitchell Garbutt, holding onto Hannant and most likely keeping Kennedy around, I really don't think we should be going out and signing another prop forward.

Especially a has been.

In other words...(and a far more accurate depiction of my reaction to this thread)