Wayne's World No Longer Relevant

[Renegade]

Because every time we try something else the players drop the ball. They aren't good enough to do anything else often enough to bother.

Ah so, the choice is

Do something repeatedly that doesn't work

or

Try something different and drop the ball

Spoilt for choice.

 

[Cult]

Ah so, the choice is

Do something repeatedly that doesn't work

or

Try something different and drop the ball

Spoilt for choice.

Better than the choices we have of who we should blame

Wayne Bennett

or

Ben Hunt

 

[Renegade]

Better than the choices we have of who we should blame

Wayne Bennett

or

Ben Hunt

Sounds like you're devolving the discussion into something that no one has seriously mentioned. Good luck to you, the rest of us can meaningfully discuss how there's an obvious coaching issue at play based on stats and results.

 

[bronx89]

So he should have cut the halfback who lead the team to within 5 seconds of the premiership for a rookie that had done literally nothing (and FTR has still done nothing 2 years later) ...

are you fucking serious

Are you insulting a fellow member?

 

[Morkel]

FMD, it seems people only pay attention to who is holding the ball in games. All this talk of combinations, rusty attack, lack of direction, you'd thing we were the worst attacking team in the comp. The reality is we're the middle of the road.

Where we are losing is with our defence. Our defence is shit. We can improve a lot with out attack, sure, but the only reason it looks like we are constantly having trouble scoring points is because we are always fucking chasing them.

That's where Bennett's comments come in to it. Our attack will be fine, but it's our young pack that is getting split so routinely. The stats don't give the best indication, but even when our forwards are dominating in our attack, they're rarely as strong defensively. We're soft as **** in the ruck. That there is the biggest problem with a "the boom young guys should all get a run", because it's not even consistency week-in, week-out, it's consistency throughout even one single game. That consistency will come with time, it's just the price we have to pay short term, coupled with our injury toll.

 

[Cult]

Sounds like you're devolving the discussion into something that no one has seriously mentioned. Good luck to you, the rest of us can meaningfully discuss how there's an obvious coaching issue at play based on stats and results.

While I am sure you and the four people who do this daily will enjoy this, I think I'll stop replying. Enjoy your whinge.

 

[Renegade]

While I am sure you and the four people who do this daily will enjoy this, I think I'll stop replying. Enjoy your whinge.

If you bothered to follow my posting history I'm pretty level headed, and even my very first post in this thread was saying I don't think we should sack him but some of the concerns raised are valid. Sorry if for some reason constructive discussion on an issue bothers you so much.

 

[Renegade]

FMD, it seems people only pay attention to who is holding the ball in games. All this talk of combinations, rusty attack, lack of direction, you'd thing we were the worst attacking team in the comp. The reality is we're the middle of the road.

Where we are losing is with our defence. Our defence is shit. We can improve a lot with out attack, sure, but the only reason it looks like we are constantly having trouble scoring points is because we are always fucking chasing them.

That's where Bennett's comments come in to it. Our attack will be fine, but it's our young pack that is getting split so routinely. The stats don't give the best indication, but even when our forwards are dominating in our attack, they're rarely as strong defensively. We're soft as **** in the ruck. That there is the biggest problem with a "the boom young guys should all get a run", because it's not even consistency week-in, week-out, it's consistency throughout even one single game. That consistency will come with time, it's just the price we have to pay short term, coupled with our injury toll.

Defensively most of the stats are middle of the road as well. 11th for line breaks conceded, 8th for run meters conceded, 10th for missed tackles, except where we're obviously getting smashed is the end result - 4th for tries conceded.

attack is the best form of defence - you don't get anywhere as gassed when you're on the attack and making the opp work - funnily enough we're 3rd for forced dropouts, but when we get them we don't do anything - we have no variety, see in game passes, one pass hitups.

 

[Morkel]

Defensively most of the stats are middle of the road as well. 11th for line breaks conceded, 8th for run meters conceded, 10th for missed tackles, except where we're obviously getting smashed is the end result - 4th for tries conceded.

attack is the best form of defence - you don't get anywhere as gassed when you're on the attack and making the opp work - funnily enough we're 3rd for forced dropouts, but when we get them we don't do anything - we have no variety, see in game passes, one pass hitups.

It's been well understood in this game forever that you build your team on defence, your confidence, and subsequently, patience and calculation in attack stems from being confident in defending the points you can score.

I agree that holding the ball is vital for defence, but it's more than just scoring points. It's possession, it's ruck control, and it's where you allow the opposition to have the ball. I'd like to see two things. One would be our error rate - we seem to be dropping the ball at the worst possible times and that is killing us. Secondly, and there will be no stats for this, but where and in what situation we concede penalties. The Manly game was a great example - they'd give away 4 penalties on their line and concede zero metres and allow their defence to reset. We'd then be pinged for square-ups on the 3rd and 4th tackle when they're still in their own half, and they'd get a free 40 metres plus a full set every time.

 

[rnabokov]

FMD, it seems people only pay attention to who is holding the ball in games. All this talk of combinations, rusty attack, lack of direction, you'd thing we were the worst attacking team in the comp. The reality is we're the middle of the road.

Where we are losing is with our defence. Our defence is shit. We can improve a lot with out attack, sure, but the only reason it looks like we are constantly having trouble scoring points is because we are always fucking chasing them.

That's where Bennett's comments come in to it. Our attack will be fine, but it's our young pack that is getting split so routinely. The stats don't give the best indication, but even when our forwards are dominating in our attack, they're rarely as strong defensively. We're soft as **** in the ruck. That there is the biggest problem with a "the boom young guys should all get a run", because it's not even consistency week-in, week-out, it's consistency throughout even one single game. That consistency will come with time, it's just the price we have to pay short term, coupled with our injury toll.

Are we really soft in the ruck? I thought that based on the majority of our losses, it was because of a stupid compressed defensive structure where the opposition, through a simple strategic analysis of our compressed defence, just spread the ball wide and ran through gaping holes on the edges and wider out. The Storm, Dogs and Manly come to mind, and this is a coaching issue. Not necessarily Bennett directly, but he is the head coach, and needs to take the responsibility for this.

 

[Renegade]

It's been well understood in this game forever that you build your team on defence, your confidence, and subsequently, patience and calculation in attack stems from being confident in defending the points you can score.

I agree that holding the ball is vital for defence, but it's more than just scoring points. It's possession, it's ruck control, and it's where you allow the opposition to have the ball. I'd like to see two things. One would be our error rate - we seem to be dropping the ball at the worst possible times and that is killing us. Secondly, and there will be no stats for this, but where and in what situation we concede penalties. The Manly game was a great example - they'd give away 4 penalties on their line and concede zero metres and allow their defence to reset. We'd then be pinged for square-ups on the 3rd and 4th tackle when they're still in their own half, and they'd get a free 40 metres plus a full set every time.

I agree that defence wins championships but you can't win on defence alone - you need to score points, something we are not good at and have little variety in, again, stats back this up and you can't tell me you haven't pulled your hair out this season when we've had a set inside the opp 20 where it's been 4 one out hit ups and a kick. it's rubbish.

possession is important but it's not the most important - it's what you do with the ball when you have it.

I agree we give away silly penalties at the worst possible time but that's a discipline issue for the most part.

 

[Morkel]

Are we really soft in the ruck? I thought that based on the majority of our losses, it was because of a stupid compressed defensive structure where the opposition, through a simple strategic analysis of our compressed defence, just spread the ball wide and ran through gaping holes on the edges and wider out. The Storm, Dogs and Manly come to mind, and this is a coaching issue. Not necessarily Bennett directly, but he is the head coach, and needs to take the responsibility for this.

The reason our defence compresses is because we are soft. We are so easily split that everyone has to come in tighter to reduce the gaps. And then we're easily beaten to the edges and out wide.

I wish we could get 2015 - 2016 Adam Blair back. 2017 Blair was shit so it wasn't worth keeping him, but we are most certainly missing the Blair that did all the 1%ers, the clean-up work, and put pressure on kickers and support runners. He's a big loss, and one that no one seems to have noticed.

 

[Morkel]

I agree that defence wins championships but you can't win on defence alone - you need to score points, something we are not good at and have little variety in, again, stats back this up and you can't tell me you haven't pulled your hair out this season when we've had a set inside the opp 20 where it's been 4 one out hit ups and a kick. it's rubbish.

possession is important but it's not the most important - it's what you do with the ball when you have it.

I agree we give away silly penalties at the worst possible time but that's a discipline issue for the most part.

It is a discipline issue - which again stems from an inexperienced pack, or other players going too far in trying to slow an opposition that has us run ragged because of that inexperience.

The attack, the disjointed look, comes from a lack of patience, and a lack of ideas. 4 points down and we know to just keep the pressure on, and the opportunities will present themselves. 16 points down, and we either go for hail-mary plays that sometimes work (simply because of the unbelievable talent between Milford, Roberts, etc), or we run around like headless chooks and just throw forwards at their defensive line without actually fatiguing them.

 

[WASSHHH]

So to summarise, the dogs breakfast that is our 2018 season thus far is due to:

- not being able to hold the ball, and / or;
- defence, and / or;
- giving too many penalties away, and / or;
- an inexperienced roste

What is absolutely clear is that, by all accounts from some at least, in no way, shape or form is any of the above even remotely attributable to how the team is coached / managed.

Have I got that right?

 

[rnabokov]

The reason our defence compresses is because we are soft. We are so easily split that everyone has to come in tighter to reduce the gaps. And then we're easily beaten to the edges and out wide.

I wish we could get 2015 - 2016 Adam Blair back. 2017 Blair was shit so it wasn't worth keeping him, but we are most certainly missing the Blair that did all the 1%ers, the clean-up work, and put pressure on kickers and support runners. He's a big loss, and one that no one seems to have noticed.

I actually don't think we are soft in the ruck, as a rule, at all. I think the compressed defensive structure is a deliberate strategy based on some kind of paranoia that our younger forwards can't defend, which, from what I have seen, is simply untrue. And, if there are shortfalls in individual tackling outcomes, then THAT IS a coaching issue. Tackling is ALL about technique first, and then comes a strategy based on an analysis of the particular attack we are facing.

If you can't tackle one-on-one, then you don't deserve to be in the top grade, end of story.

Our defensive structure is a deliberately poor strategy based on no good reason whatsoever, and the fact Manly and particularly the Storm, cut us to ribbons out wide, is proof of that unpalatable pudding (which describes our defensive efforts, by and large)

 

[Morkel]

So to summarise, the dogs breakfast that is our 2018 season thus far is due to:

- not being able to hold the ball, and / or;
- defence, and / or;
- giving too many penalties away, and / or;
- an inexperienced roste

What is absolutely clear is that, by all accounts from some at least, in no way, shape or form is any of the above even remotely attributable to how the team is coached / managed.

Have I got that right?

All of that stems from confidence (or lack of), and inexperience.

He can't do much about the inexperience right now, especially with injuries.

With the confidence, you don't think publicly backing Nikorima and Bird, as well as looking to accommodate the latter by moving him in to more familiar positions, are evidence that not only is Bennett on to it, but has been since well before anyone on here thought of the possibility? There is no better coach to drag our team out of this, and it's the same coach that knows that knee-jerk reactions and wilting under pressure is not going to help anyone, long or short term.

 

[Morkel]

I actually don't think we are soft in the ruck, as a rule, at all. I think the compressed defensive structure is a deliberate strategy based on some kind of paranoia that our younger forwards can't defend, which, from what I have seen, is simply untrue. And, if there are shortfalls in individual tackling outcomes, then THAT IS a coaching issue. Tackling is ALL about technique first, and then comes a strategy based on an analysis of the particular attack we are facing.

If you can't tackle one-on-one, then you don't deserve to be in the top grade, end of story.

Our defensive structure is a deliberately poor strategy based on no good reason whatsoever, and the fact Manly cut us to ribbons is oproof of that unpalatable pudding (which describes our defensive efforts, by and large)

It's not about a poor technique. We've seen with Su'a, TPJ, in fact just about all our young forwards, that they can hit and they can hit hard. Maybe I should clarify in saying it's not soft physically, but mentally.

It's more about poor positioning and awareness. Coaching will help that - over time - but not as much as experience. It's why Su'a hasn't been spotted much in the top grade - even when he's been thrown in and looked good in making 30 or 40 tackles, it hasn't shown the ones that he's missed or the ones that he's lost the ruck in and allowed a quick PTB. Or the ones that have gone straight past him. But he's what, 20 years old? Of course that's going to happen. Same with the others - they can muscle up for a period and look really strong (Cowboys game for example), but they can't sustain it for long and can too easily have the tables turned on them.

While we're on that too, in regards to Isaako, people may forget that in his early few years, JYY was similarly flaky with his defence. He was also criticised heavily for coming in too often, or getting stranded in no-man's-land, and general poor decision making. His ability under the high ball was even suspect. Even when he was first picked for Origin there were concerns about whether he was up for it. But with time, and by sticking with Hodges, he improved out of sight. I can't see why Isaako can't either.

 

[Harry Sack]

Sounds to me like a nickname for a stray, and possibly rabid dog. This perhaps explains his or her "charming personality".

I generally like to go by the name Senor Slippyfist on forums. I'm interested to know what that says about me.