What is the strongest team the Broncos can field in 2014 and 2015?

[Porthoz]

So you don't see any merit in playing Reed on the right hand side of the field, or having Hoffman at left centre...????

I'd rather not touch a working combination (Reed + Hoffman), Copley has always been a better centre than winger and by all accounts, is a beast we can certainly use next to another beast in Vidot.
I definitely don't think moving an excellent finisher like Hoffman from the wing is the right choice either, when we have plenty of players that can play centre (Kahu, Copley, Vidot, Reed) more than adequately.

All of this is just based on potential of course. You might find that Mills kills in on the wing, Vidot makes the centre spot his own and Copley has bulked so much that he becomes a backrower.

Even if Milford doesn't end up with us in 2014, I'm looking forward to this season and only hope we won't be cruelled by injuries like last season.
Hopefully a new conditioning regime will help our abysmal defence, which as Alec said, will in turn help our attack a lot.

 

[coreyh88]

I would definitely leave Hoffman on the wing. He does what no one else can there and is only adequate as a centre imo. Copely has always been touted as having huge potential bit playing out of position and his injury have made people forget that. Id put him at centre ahead of kahu who was quite poor defensively at centre (out of position). You may have a point with reed and vidot on the right hand side. But yeah id have copely as the opposite centre and Hoffman on the wing.

the 17 is an interesting conundrum as it mightn't get used. For the bench we only really have 40-60 mins of frf. 30 mins of hooker. 60 mins of 2rf. I think those first three cover it. There's merit for giving hala ten to twenty minutes to run riot keeping other props fresh. There's merit in oates as he gives us invaluable cover for the backs although will struggle for game time as he isn't actually required and wont add as much as the others from the bench although maybe we can try to fit in a 10 minute impact role cutting Glenn to 50 mins and leaving thaiday on 40 (i have gillett on 60)

 

[Painin the Haas]

Well, we know that Reed can perform on the left, so he can just as easily slip back there when Hodges is back. But while Hodges is out, lets "better" utilise Reed so he is not restricted in his actions by playing on the left side. The left side is the "wrong" side for a right handed player as it eliminates one of their attributes and means of getting past his opponent - The Fend. Although it is obviously playable to being on the "wrong" side of the field, but a player can be more effective when they have the full range of motion of an arm to palm the opposition off with.

Either way, changing combinations in a team is inevitable. Injuries and the form of players in the top 17, as well as those pushing for a spot will always force combinations to be reworked, but it doesn't necessarily make them ineffective.

The Broncos have to go back to basics, getting the little things right. They don't need to copy another teams playing style, and try perfect it. That wont work. Instead the Broncos need to work out what works for them, and what doesn't.

If they keep things simple, the they will develop their own style of play that will be effective for them, as it will take into account the pro's of each individual, and how they can maximise what they offer to the team. By doing this they can play to the teams strengths, rather than its weaknesses, bringing originality and creating variety to the Broncos attack.

There's no point copying how another team plays, as that game plan, plays to that particular teams strengths, not ours. Likewise, other teams can try and copy our game plan, but it wont work for them, as it plays to the Broncos strengths, not theirs. This makes it awfully hard to defend against, as we'll be playing in a way that no other team plays.

im not worried about reed transition back to the left and I'm not saying coping other teams don't know where you got that from.

what I am saying his he going to be better on the right yes but he is our left centre. If he spends half the season outside a different 2nd rower and have a different winger then he'll have to swap and that mucks up not just one combination but two and combinations are everything ask any coach and when both are mixed up that makes the team more vulnrable. Having Glenn and Hoffman either side works for reed

 

[bazza]

I'd rather not touch a working combination (Reed + Hoffman), Copley has always been a better centre than winger and by all accounts, is a beast we can certainly use next to another beast in Vidot.
I definitely don't think moving an excellent finisher like Hoffman from the wing is the right choice either, when we have plenty of players that can play centre (Kahu, Copley, Vidot, Reed) more than adequately.

All of this is just based on potential of course. You might find that Mills kills in on the wing, Vidot makes the centre spot his own and Copley has bulked so much that he becomes a backrower.

Even if Milford doesn't end up with us in 2014, I'm looking forward to this season and only hope we won't be cruelled by injuries like last season.
Hopefully a new conditioning regime will help our abysmal defence, which as Alec said, will in turn help our attack a lot.

Fair point mate, I do respect your opinion, as well as everyone else's, but in this instance, I have to disagree with some things.

In my opinion, why wouldn't you touch a combination that may have worked last year if there may be potentially better options available for this year? Why would you stick to that option if the there are better possible options, that will benefit the team better? If its going mean a stronger team, why not change it?

The reason that combination was formed, was out of desperation to play like every other team in the NRL, with the block play and a ball playing fullback... that didn't exactly work out.

Combinations always get broken through injury and the form of other contenders for that position. Wouldn't you touch that combination if one of the players was in poor form? or would you stick with it because it worked last year? Wouldn't you change that combination if there were other players in better form? No player is guaranteed a spot anyway, despite last years efforts, otherwise there'd be no point for depth. No one can push for a spot in that case, because the combination worked last year...

What if our halves this year form a working combination - would you break it in 2015 for Milford...? I'm guessing you wouldn't break it - even if the inclusion of Milford may potentially be better for the team...

In regards to Copley, as I've mentioned above, he may not be physically conditioned for a full time position at centre when he hasn't played in over a year. He has come off a pretty long injury lay off. It would be more logical to play him through the QCup for overall match fitness and confidence in his injuries, rather than throw him in the deep end. If he finds his feet again, and his form warrants selection, by all means include him in the squad.

Likewise with Kahu, his lack of: experience, overall game time (NRL and QCup) and match fitness in addition with his injuries in the past would better suit him on the wing to start off with. He still has to be eased in to first grade and hence shouldn't be given the full-time role of centre or even five-eighth yet. That is one of the reasons I prefer Strasser at five-eighth.

I don't understand why everyone is so negative and pre-determined as to where Hoffman should play. He is one of our most dangerous players, in addition with Barba and Hodges. Why wouldn't you want to get the ball in his hands as much as possible? Why hide him away and isolate him on the wing? He can still very much finish a try from the centre position, while Kahu is a solid finisher as well from the wing.

Hoffman doesn't get many touches in good field position when on the wing. His possessions are just short runs in limited space towards the try line. Thats not enough involvement for a player that looks the most likely to break the line with the ball in his hand. He played two games at centre and was looking slick with the extra space. How can anyone say he is not adequate enough when Copley and Kahu have played limited first grade, let alone as a centre. When playing centre, he has more ability to showcase his strong running game, and with his footwork, he can beat his opponent, which means more linebreaks and scoring opportunities

 

[Kimlo]

I reckon Hala will be at 17. If Corvo can improve his fitness and he stops getting injured, he could become a really good player.

 

[bazza]

im not worried about reed transition back to the left and I'm not saying coping other teams don't know where you got that from.

what I am saying his he going to be better on the right yes but he is our left centre. If he spends half the season outside a different 2nd rower and have a different winger then he'll have to swap and that mucks up not just one combination but two and combinations are everything ask any coach and when both are mixed up that makes the team more vulnrable. Having Glenn and Hoffman either side works for reed

Hahhaa I know you didn't say anything about copying the game plan of other teams, I was just making a statement. But It was pretty obvious the Broncos tried to copy the block play and the sweeping fullback play after the success of the Bulldogs in 2012. They put Norman at fullback, and just went from side to side without moving forward. No one took the ball forward, because it was just passing from right to left or vice versa.

I do understand your concern, and although I do somewhat agree, I feel it may not really muck up much, as he'll start the year off one one side, training accordingly. When Hodges is back, he'll swap straight back to the combinations he was accustomed to anyway.

Well in your case, even if he stays on the left, his second row may constantly be changing between Gillett and Glenn, through interchanges, injuries or poor form. That may also make the team vulnerable in certain stages, but it can always be fixed.

 

[bazza]

I would definitely leave Hoffman on the wing. He does what no one else can there and is only adequate as a centre imo. Copely has always been touted as having huge potential bit playing out of position and his injury have made people forget that. Id put him at centre ahead of kahu who was quite poor defensively at centre (out of position). You may have a point with reed and vidot on the right hand side. But yeah id have copely as the opposite centre and Hoffman on the wing.

the 17 is an interesting conundrum as it mightn't get used. For the bench we only really have 40-60 mins of frf. 30 mins of hooker. 60 mins of 2rf. I think those first three cover it. There's merit for giving hala ten to twenty minutes to run riot keeping other props fresh. There's merit in oates as he gives us invaluable cover for the backs although will struggle for game time as he isn't actually required and wont add as much as the others from the bench although maybe we can try to fit in a 10 minute impact role cutting Glenn to 50 mins and leaving thaiday on 40 (i have gillett on 60)

Things don't always work out though...

Hoffman was also touted as a five-eighth. He too was said to have a huge potential. When Locky was around, he was turned into a brilliant, old-fashioned type of fullback with a solid running game. That form from the beginning of 2010 to the end of 2011 disappeared as Locky retired, and since then, Hoffman hasn't had the same impact, and has been overlooked for that fullback position after 2012. Most of the reason for that is that Locky provided quick, early, clean ball, whereas Norman and Wallace were not capable of that. That limited Hoffman's ability to play to his potential and showcase his strengths.

Part of Hoffman's game that is heavily criticised is his ball playing ability, which I fear is the result of poor development on behalf of the Broncos. He was a five-eighth growing up, with ball playing ability, and a left foot kicking game. The Broncos, didn't further develop his five-eighth skill set or side of things, and turned him into a running fullback, and hence he hesitates to pass, even when the opportunity arises.

Now he is stuck on the wing, even though I personally think he could be better utilised and could make it as a quality centre.

 

[Brett]

Thaiday has never played left

This struck me as strange. I didn't say he played on the left did I?

Anyway, I like Hoffman in the Centres and I also like him on the wing. I think he can play either quite effectively.

 

[Morkel]

1- Barba
2- Hoffman
3- Reed
4- Copley
5- Vidot
6- Strasser (or whoever plays best in the trials)
7- Hunt
8- McGuire
9- Macca
10- Kennedy
11- Gillett
12- Thaiday
13- Parker

14- Granville
15- Glenn
16- Hannant
17- Hala/Dodds/Molo/etc...

Oates, Hodgo and Yow Yeh to come into the side at some point, and with Lowrie and Stagg to cover for Origin player loss, we might even not suffer that much during that period this year...

That pretty much looks like the best 17 (with the #6 still pending). Agree with keeping Reed & Hoffman as a unit, I'm a little wary of two big fellas in Copley & Vidot and their collective mobility as a defensive unit, but IMO they are still the best candidates until Hodges returns.

As to the Hoffman debate, what pips it for me is his incredible safety under the high ball. I might be looking through biased eyes, but he is definitely the safest of our entire squad back there. And safety in your back 3 can not be underestimated. That for mine is why he shouldn't be used at centre unless there is another injury crisis.

 

[Painin the Haas]

Hahhaa I know you didn't say anything about copying the game plan of other teams, I was just making a statement. But It was pretty obvious the Broncos tried to copy the block play and the sweeping fullback play after the success of the Bulldogs in 2012. They put Norman at fullback, and just went from side to side without moving forward. No one took the ball forward, because it was just passing from right to left or vice versa.

I do understand your concern, and although I do somewhat agree, I feel it may not really muck up much, as he'll start the year off one one side, training accordingly. When Hodges is back, he'll swap straight back to the combinations he was accustomed to anyway.

Well in your case, even if he stays on the left, his second row may constantly be changing between Gillett and Glenn, through interchanges, injuries or poor form. That may also make the team vulnerable in certain stages, but it can always be fixed.

I can see your point and your right but i can also see the hesitation that hook would have. However your totally right about the flaws in the broncos attacking plan, only time we looked good is when we went direct, barba might help but still it doesn't work for the dogs now, why would it for us

 

[Painin the Haas]

This struck me as strange. I didn't say he played on the left did I?

Anyway, I like Hoffman in the Centres and I also like him on the wing. I think he can play either quite effectively.

You did imply that by saying he plays better on the right

 

[Brett]

You did imply that by saying he plays better on the right

I was implying that he's never played on the left and plays better on the right because of the disparity of the #11 and #12. #11 is traditionally played on the right edge and that's where Thaiday plays. #12 traditionally plays left (at least this is how Brisbane run it with Thaiday right and Gillett left)

 

[Splinter]

I have only seen Copley play left centre and he was class in the 20s. IMO Reed would be the more versatile to shift to right centre if they go with Copley.
Bazza, you listed Kahu as Right handed, it has been reported he is left footed, are you sure he is right handed?

I think this debate is showing that we may have more options than the last couple of years which is a good thing

 

[Painin the Haas]

True, it was weird he played in both the 11 & 12 last year but always on the same edge (when in 2nd row)

 

[Alec]

I really don't think Thaiday should be playing the full 80. Even at his best he was one of the laziest players in the side.

I also rate Copley higher than Kahu at the moment (and I actually think he was on his way to surpassing Reed too, before missing all of last year).

 

[Porthoz]

Fair point mate, I do respect your opinion, as well as everyone else's, but in this instance, I have to disagree with some things.

In my opinion, why wouldn't you touch a combination that may have worked last year if there may be potentially better options available for this year? Why would you stick to that option if the there are better possible options, that will benefit the team better? If its going mean a stronger team, why not change it?

The reason that combination was formed, was out of desperation to play like every other team in the NRL, with the block play and a ball playing fullback... that didn't exactly work out.

Combinations always get broken through injury and the form of other contenders for that position. Wouldn't you touch that combination if one of the players was in poor form? or would you stick with it because it worked last year? Wouldn't you change that combination if there were other players in better form? No player is guaranteed a spot anyway, despite last years efforts, otherwise there'd be no point for depth. No one can push for a spot in that case, because the combination worked last year...

What if our halves this year form a working combination - would you break it in 2015 for Milford...? I'm guessing you wouldn't break it - even if the inclusion of Milford may potentially be better for the team...

In regards to Copley, as I've mentioned above, he may not be physically conditioned for a full time position at centre when he hasn't played in over a year. He has come off a pretty long injury lay off. It would be more logical to play him through the QCup for overall match fitness and confidence in his injuries, rather than throw him in the deep end. If he finds his feet again, and his form warrants selection, by all means include him in the squad.

Likewise with Kahu, his lack of: experience, overall game time (NRL and QCup) and match fitness in addition with his injuries in the past would better suit him on the wing to start off with. He still has to be eased in to first grade and hence shouldn't be given the full-time role of centre or even five-eighth yet. That is one of the reasons I prefer Strasser at five-eighth.

I don't understand why everyone is so negative and pre-determined as to where Hoffman should play. He is one of our most dangerous players, in addition with Barba and Hodges. Why wouldn't you want to get the ball in his hands as much as possible? Why hide him away and isolate him on the wing? He can still very much finish a try from the centre position, while Kahu is a solid finisher as well from the wing.

Hoffman doesn't get many touches in good field position when on the wing. His possessions are just short runs in limited space towards the try line. Thats not enough involvement for a player that looks the most likely to break the line with the ball in his hand. He played two games at centre and was looking slick with the extra space. How can anyone say he is not adequate enough when Copley and Kahu have played limited first grade, let alone as a centre. When playing centre, he has more ability to showcase his strong running game, and with his footwork, he can beat his opponent, which means more linebreaks and scoring opportunities

Woah, that's a big jump to assume I wouldn't touch a combination if there were better options, especially re Milford, who would always find his way in my first choice squad.

Now returning to Hoffman, I'm definitely not convinced he's a better centre than Copley, whom I saw playing and shining in his preferred left centre position. Even returning from injury, I have enough faith in Dale to do his job at centre, and allow the best winger we have to stay where he is best suited.
We shouldn't underestimate Hoffman's ability in the air as well, essential in a winger both in defense and attack. Besides, let's be honest... unless Yow Yeh returns to his best and/or Mills surprises everyone, Vidot and Hoffman are the only players capable of giving us a real edge on the wing.
Pairing Hoffman with Reed is an advantage because they have formed a combination, but as someone said, Copley was an excellent left centre and Reed does very well on the right, so I wouldn't have an issue swapping the centres in my team.

IMO, you are too focussed on getting more explosiveness in the centres, and seem to underestimate the importance of a good winger, both in attack and defense, and we don't have enough of those to take Hoffman out of the edge. You really only have to look at our last season...

 

[Porthoz]

Fair point mate, I do respect your opinion, as well as everyone else's, but in this instance, I have to disagree with some things.

In my opinion, why wouldn't you touch a combination that may have worked last year if there may be potentially better options available for this year? Why would you stick to that option if the there are better possible options, that will benefit the team better? If its going mean a stronger team, why not change it?

The reason that combination was formed, was out of desperation to play like every other team in the NRL, with the block play and a ball playing fullback... that didn't exactly work out.

Combinations always get broken through injury and the form of other contenders for that position. Wouldn't you touch that combination if one of the players was in poor form? or would you stick with it because it worked last year? Wouldn't you change that combination if there were other players in better form? No player is guaranteed a spot anyway, despite last years efforts, otherwise there'd be no point for depth. No one can push for a spot in that case, because the combination worked last year...

What if our halves this year form a working combination - would you break it in 2015 for Milford...? I'm guessing you wouldn't break it - even if the inclusion of Milford may potentially be better for the team...

In regards to Copley, as I've mentioned above, he may not be physically conditioned for a full time position at centre when he hasn't played in over a year. He has come off a pretty long injury lay off. It would be more logical to play him through the QCup for overall match fitness and confidence in his injuries, rather than throw him in the deep end. If he finds his feet again, and his form warrants selection, by all means include him in the squad.

Likewise with Kahu, his lack of: experience, overall game time (NRL and QCup) and match fitness in addition with his injuries in the past would better suit him on the wing to start off with. He still has to be eased in to first grade and hence shouldn't be given the full-time role of centre or even five-eighth yet. That is one of the reasons I prefer Strasser at five-eighth.

I don't understand why everyone is so negative and pre-determined as to where Hoffman should play. He is one of our most dangerous players, in addition with Barba and Hodges. Why wouldn't you want to get the ball in his hands as much as possible? Why hide him away and isolate him on the wing? He can still very much finish a try from the centre position, while Kahu is a solid finisher as well from the wing.

Hoffman doesn't get many touches in good field position when on the wing. His possessions are just short runs in limited space towards the try line. Thats not enough involvement for a player that looks the most likely to break the line with the ball in his hand. He played two games at centre and was looking slick with the extra space. How can anyone say he is not adequate enough when Copley and Kahu have played limited first grade, let alone as a centre. When playing centre, he has more ability to showcase his strong running game, and with his footwork, he can beat his opponent, which means more linebreaks and scoring opportunities

Woah, that's a big jump to assume I wouldn't touch a combination if there were better options, especially re Milford, who would always find his way in my first choice squad.

Now returning to Hoffman, I'm definitely not convinced he's a better centre than Copley, whom I saw playing and shining in his preferred left centre position. Even returning from injury, I have enough faith in Dale to do his job at centre, and allow the best winger we have to stay where he is best suited.
We shouldn't underestimate Hoffman's ability in the air as well, essential in a winger both in defense and attack. Besides, let's be honest... unless Yow Yeh returns to his best and/or Mills surprises everyone, Vidot and Hoffman are the only players capable of giving us a real edge on the wing.

Pairing Hoffman with Reed is an advantage because they have formed a combination, but as has been said, Copley was an excellent left centre and Reed does very well on the right, so I wouldn't have an issue swapping the centres in my team.

IMO, you are too focussed on getting more explosiveness in the centres, and seem to underestimate the importance of a good winger, both in attack and defense, and we don't have enough of those to take Hoffman out of the edge. You really only have to look at our last season...

 

[bazza]

I have only seen Copley play left centre and he was class in the 20s. IMO Reed would be the more versatile to shift to right centre if they go with Copley.
Bazza, you listed Kahu as Right handed, it has been reported he is left footed, are you sure he is right handed?

I think this debate is showing that we may have more options than the last couple of years which is a good thing

True about Copley and his potential. He was starting to look really good before he got injured. If he can build on that, we sure have one heck of a player on our hands. With the added size, he may really cause the opposition a lot of trouble, something we have lacked in recent years.

But my only concern for Copley, is a lack of confidence in his body at the moment after coming off a lengthy injury. To be thrown into the centre position, a position so crucial, especially in defence, it is a big ask. It can seriously dent his confidence, and affect his development of becoming a regular first grader.

I'd much rather he came through QCup, get confidence in his injuries, gain overall experience and some much needed match fitness in order to be able to play at an NRL standard. He can then push for a spot when he feels comfortable with himself and his how his body holds up.

It would be devastating if he suffered another injury

As with Kahu, who knows what hand he is dominant with, either way he is super talented. The only reason I said he was right handed was because he carried the ball in his right hand, and generally players hold the ball in their dominant hand. He can actually kick long distances with great precision and accuracy using both feet, even though his right foot is his dominant. As for what's his dominant foot, I'm fairly certain its his right foot, as he use to goal kick with it.