Round 8 - Broncos vs. Rabbitohs - Post-Game discussion

[Kimlo]

A genuine 5/8 would know how to close out a game and that's one thing we're missing, a good halves pairing who can close out games when we're on top. Hunt has way too much pressure on him for someone who is essentially, in his rookie halves season.

 

[rnabokov]

I'm kind of sick of the whole "we need a genuine 5/8 or we won't get anywhere" banter. To me it's just as irrelevant and uninformed as those that bitch about "the one-out stuff". If we were desperate for a 5/8 there is no way we'd score 5 tries against the Rabbits. There's no way we would have been in with a genuine chance at winning every one of our games, bar arguably the Eels one where we were simply bamboozled. To me, we're literally 5 minutes away from being one of the teams to beat. We have the first 75 minutes of every game about right. We won't get it right every game of course, but we know what to do and more often than not do it. It's that last 5 minutes that we can't close out. Not properly. We have done it - look at the Cowboys game, the Bulldogs game, etc. But we can't do it like the best teams. But hell, after the Warriors trial, if we were given the chance of a 50:50 win ratio, and 7 points being our highest losing margin, would you have taken it? Of course you would have.

I can see the point that a genuine 5/8 would solve this problem, but unless we score a proven top-class one, it's irrelevant. Our wins, despite some ordinary scores being put on us, are built on defence, and no sane coach would compromise on that simply because we can't close out a game yet. We put a rookie in and we undo all the work that we've done to get that 75 minutes right. For me, the solution is simply.... time. Sounds like a cop-out, but again, who would have thought that Hunt would improve as much as he has? Certainly not me. Our spine only contains one player from last year, it's makeshift, and it contains injured players, it's not going to click in 8 games. And that's all that we're missing. The experience and the teamwork to know what each other's role is in that last 5 minutes and how they're going to go about doing it. Every game we're getting closer. Seriously. Have a bit of faith.

For me, I'm just enjoying the fact that we're not busting our arses for one or two tries a game while the every other team seemingly scores them with ease. That just about ****ing killed me last year.

I just can't agree with this. The lack of a genuine 5/8 has repercussions throughout the entire team. It puts unnecessary pressure on a lot of players, Hunt in particular.

Our left side has been virtually useless (and I am critical of Glenn here as well for not passing more), we lack help in organizing and directing the plays down the left, we miss seriously a 2nd kicking option to just Hunt, and for mine, if we had a genuine 5/8, we would have beaten every side this year, except the Rabbits who had 19 players. Our kicking game is woeful. One kicker really who is always under enormous pressure? Seriously. This is just DUMB. Look at Souths last night: Reynolds and Sutton, and an great kicking game.

Whilst last night Hodges did pretty well, he was defending here, attacking there, and Barba was really the 5/8 but in a structure that was too complicated for its own good which, for mine, explains inpart, why Barba was less effective than v Knights. At least with Hoffman there, Barba was much more comfortable running on both the left and right hand sides, up the middle and setting up plays and tries.

Be it Barba, (not Hodges - he is not a 5/8) Duncan P, Strasser, we will be scoring more points which, on the back of a great defence, would win us more games.

This game is not won just on defence, you also need to score points.

 

[nostradamus]

After watching replay of the game and watching it live decided to have a little rant.
Why is Griffin still Coach? There needs to be an investigation. Why do we not play a 5/8? There needs to be an investigation. Why are we still playing Griffin ball? There needs to be an investigation. Why are we so incompetent on how to use the F..... Bench? There needs to be an investigation? How the hell did Alex Glenn get MOM? There needs to be an investigation. We are not going any where unless we start playing a 5/8 whoever that maybe? Benji will do for a year!!!!!!!

 

[Morkel]

I agree regarding needing more kicking options. But we don't need a second 5/8 for that. Barba, brain-farts notwithstanding, can help. Macca for the long clearing kicks. And Hodges launched a couple of pin-point cross-field pearlers for Vidot in the warm-up. Why it's not happening in games I don't know, but it's not from a lack of options.

We proved that we can score points when needed throughout most of the match. With a running game, short grubbers, brute strength. This, despite some (lots of) awful last-tackle options, etc. For mine, it's just a matter of experience. At the moment, the only one with a long history of jagging wins is Hodges, and he's trying too hard and doing it alone because the combinations aren't there yet. But we've seen when they come together as a team they can be very effective. The rep period won't help in terms of competition points, but our spine should remain intact, so at the back end of the season, with the big boys back, I'll expect to see some positive steps.

 

[jarro65]

I agree regarding needing more kicking options. But we don't need a second 5/8 for that. Barba, brain-farts notwithstanding, can help. Macca for the long clearing kicks. And Hodges launched a couple of pin-point cross-field pearlers for Vidot in the warm-up. Why it's not happening in games I don't know, but it's not from a lack of options.

We proved that we can score points when needed throughout most of the match. With a running game, short grubbers, brute strength. This, despite some (lots of) awful last-tackle options, etc. For mine, it's just a matter of experience. At the moment, the only one with a long history of jagging wins is Hodges, and he's trying too hard and doing it alone because the combinations aren't there yet. But we've seen when they come together as a team they can be very effective. The rep period won't help in terms of competition points, but our spine should remain intact, so at the back end of the season, with the big boys back, I'll expect to see some positive steps.

I watched the Knights/Bulldogs game last night, and thought that the Knights play a very similar game to us .... one out runs from inside their own end, no tip on plays (usually) .... very like us.

UNTIL .... Mullen puts up those awesome crossfield kicks for his wingers....then it's a lottery.

It looks like such a good play, especially when we have some pretty handy jumpers in our side (Reed/Vidot/Copley)

It's a play that we need to employ.

 

[rnabokov]

I watched the Knights/Bulldogs game last night, and thought that the Knights play a very similar game to us .... one out runs from inside their own end, no tip on plays (usually) .... very like us.

UNTIL .... Mullen puts up those awesome crossfield kicks for his wingers....then it's a lottery.

It looks like such a good play, especially when we have some pretty handy jumpers in our side (Reed/Vidot/Copley)

It's a play that we need to employ.

I watched it too, and as I did I thought "goodness, what could we achieve with Mullen in our team?".

The try Reed scored was from a Hunt grubber - on the left hand side. We ought to have been doing that all night. Hunt on the right, Hodges or Barba on the left. Or in a better world, a2nd half (nat a 2nd 5/8) with a kicking game, like Mullen.

Against a team like Souths with a monster pack and a monster FB, our game plan ought have been constant kicking, short and medium, turning them around with full on chasers for every kick landing well short of, and away from, GI.

The game plan sucked, or if it was part of the plan, we sucked at executing ... and btw, that field goal, wasn't Barba standing unmarked, in range, in front of the posts, and to the left of Hunt who surely must have seen Burgess running the charge down. A simple pass to Barba for the shot would have been the better option, but it didn't happen. Why?

 

[KingWebcke]

It has taken a long while to get over this. I hate losses where you feel like everything was under control

 

[jarro65]

It has taken a long while to get over this. I hate losses where you feel like everything was under control

Did you honestly feel that everything was under control ?

I know i didn't.

I was very proud of the effort the guys showed to come back from that brutal bashing we copped early on, but in the back of my mind i knew the Bunnies would come back at us, and hoped we could hold them out.

 

[Morkel]

I watched it too, and as I did I thought "goodness, what could we achieve with Mullen in our team?".

The try Reed scored was from a Hunt grubber - on the left hand side. We ought to have been doing that all night. Hunt on the right, Hodges or Barba on the left. Or in a better world, a2nd half (nat a 2nd 5/8) with a kicking game, like Mullen.

Against a team like Souths with a monster pack and a monster FB, our game plan ought have been constant kicking, short and medium, turning them around with full on chasers for every kick landing well short of, and away from, GI.

The game plan sucked, or if it was part of the plan, we sucked at executing ... and btw, that field goal, wasn't Barba standing unmarked, in range, in front of the posts, and to the left of Hunt who surely must have seen Burgess running the charge down. A simple pass to Barba for the shot would have been the better option, but it didn't happen. Why?

The problem is that Hunt was two passes out. Maybe Barba was the first receiver. As it was, they were 30 to 40 out, so Hunt couldn't stand deep like you'd want, so the two passes had merit in terms of giving the opposition two targets. But Hunt wax always going to be taking the shot - so maybe he should have been the decoy with Barba taking the shot? If's and but's, in reality it fell down when no one made metres. Date I say it, they kept going wide or tried to step when they should have gone one-out and ran hard.

 

[noisetheory]

i havent looked at this thread until now as i was too mad after having lost the game.

initially i was mad at the refs but in reality i'm mad at our inability to close out a game. parker missed two easy conversions which any NRL goal kicker should slot every day of the week. and our set leading up to the field goal attempt was just plain embarassing. we put ourselves in the position we were in.

the hunt strip was 50-50 but he definitely went for the ball. in reality burgess carry was loose but im not blaming the loss on that decision. it could of gone either way and the refs are calling strips on absolutely everything these days so it was consistent with what we've seen this year.

the obstruction 'try' was a try in my opinion. there was no obstruction.

we beat ourselves in the end. we only have ourselves to blame. blaming the refs wont get us anywhere

 

[Manifesto]

i havent looked at this thread until now as i was too mad after having lost the game.

initially i was mad at the refs but in reality i'm mad at our inability to close out a game. parker missed two easy conversions which any NRL goal kicker should slot every day of the week. and our set leading up to the field goal attempt was just plain embarassing. we put ourselves in the position we were in.

the hunt strip was 50-50 but he definitely went for the ball. in reality burgess carry was loose but im not blaming the loss on that decision. it could of gone either way and the refs are calling strips on absolutely everything these days so it was consistent with what we've seen this year.

the obstruction 'try' was a try in my opinion. there was no obstruction.

we beat ourselves in the end. we only have ourselves to blame. blaming the refs wont get us anywhere

I've cooled off a lot as well and largely agree with this as well. After re-watching the highlights, the final two dubious penalties were warranted. Parker was standing at about 7-8m from the tap, so he was offside. And the Hunt strip was 50-50 but did seem like he played at the ball on the slow-mo replays.

I still think the try should have been ruled obstruction though as I have highlighted previously. It's very similar to the final obstruction no-try in the Sharks v Panthers game yesterday, the only difference being that Wade Graham milked the obstruction and made no attempt at the tackle. Had Hunt not made any attempt at the tackle, I have no doubt the video ref would have stayed with the on-field ref. Its these episodes of lack of consistency that are frustrating the hell out of me.

In the end, we lost because we couldn't control the 1-% plays - the Copley 1-on-1 strip, the botched field goal attempt, the poor bounce that Reed got with that cross field kick and his crap attempt at securing the ball, and of course, goal-kicking. We are 5-10min per game away from a top 4 or even top 2 spot. At least we have come a long way from only competing for 40-60 min a match.

 

[CaptainHook]

For me, I'm just enjoying the fact that we're not busting our arses for one or two tries a game while the every other team seemingly scores them with ease.

Yeah there was nothing soft about the Burgess and Inglis tries the other night. Souths really worked hard for their points.

 

[vertigo]

I'm kind of sick of the whole "we need a genuine 5/8 or we won't get anywhere" banter. To me it's just as irrelevant and uninformed as those that bitch about "the one-out stuff".

So you think one-out crap is conducive to good attacking football?

If we were desperate for a 5/8 there is no way we'd score 5 tries against the Rabbits.

That's because we had Hodges there who has range of motion in his arms to do this thing called passing.

 

[KingWebcke]

Did you honestly feel that everything was under control ?

I know i didn't.

I was very proud of the effort the guys showed to come back from that brutal bashing we copped early on, but in the back of my mind i knew the Bunnies would come back at us, and hoped we could hold them out.

I guess nothing is ever totally under control in RL, esp for such a small lead. but I definitely thought we were in the driver's seat.

 

[Rally Towel]

Despite being gutted by the loss, I can't say or performance has altered my perception of the team or our potential this year.

First off, conceding that initial 14 point margin was a horror start, and it would have been easy to capitulate there. Instead, we put four unanswered tries in them to take the lead. I doubt that we would have possessed the mettle or ability to do that over the last two seasons.

On the same subject, I haven't checked the stats, but live I felt like Souths earned about six or seven repeat sets to our one? Despite losing the game, they showed some commitment and resolve to hold them out many times.

As tough as some of the refereeing to swallow, contentious calls happen in all games, and we cannot attribute a loss to that. Good teams find a way to win.

I thought our kicking game was poor. We found their back three on the full too many times. Inability to turn them around or force repeat sets was always going to make the going tough. Souths managed to put quite a lot of pressure on Hunt, but we rarely could say the same.

As for Corey's kicking, the less said the better. Love the guy, but it's just not good enough. The scary thing is, I doubt he'd be the appointed kicker if someone proved superior in practice. Too many games lost due to missed conversions, and likely more to come.

Unfortunately, I never have confidence that we can snatch a game that hangs in the balance that late in the game, particularly against quality opposition.

In terms of positives, the usual suspects all turned in good performances. Macca continues to deliver, Gillett is still turning in consistent performances (which was my main criticism of him in the past). Cozza lead from the front and did well, kicking notwithstanding. Hannant appeared to returning to form, though I'll reserve judgement for a few weeks yet.

Hunt had a bit of an off night, but was close to a couple of clean breaks. He still lacks polish, but I'm more confident in him than I was to start the season. I think Hodges showed that we would be much more effective if we had a little more capability in the halves to pair with Hunt.

I have already touched upon the resolve and spirit shown by the team. We sorely lacked it through the last two seasons. This has been the brightest light for me this season. Between that and our improved fitness, I still believe we'll have a reasonable season.

I still foresee a finish between sixth and tenth place. We were never going to be contenders for the title this year. Our performances back this up: we've rolled the weaker teams, and have been in the game until the death against the top dogs.

As tough as defeats are to swallow, I think it helps to be realistic about our expectations...

 

[Mister Wright]

As much as I don't think Parker should be our kicker anymore, I think the fulltime role should go to Ben Hunt, he stacks up comparibly to former Bronco kickers. He has kicked the most goals in Bronco history (439) next best De Vere (403). Only two players who have kicked a decent amount of goals have a better career percentage than him, Parker (74.03% 439/593) Wallace (75.86% 66/87) Devere (76.62% 403/526).

It is more the situations he misses and he can nail one from the sideline, but can't get one 15 out either side. He kicks better we have an extra 4 competition points this season and we are equal first.

 

[Jason Simmons]

I noticed there was a 'skills' segment on Broncos Insider today where Cozza was talking about goal-kicking... Couldn't help but think the club is doing a bit of damage control there...

As as negative as it may be, the club just doesn't apparently care that it is losing game after game because of these failings. They've brought in Darryl Halligan previously when it's been recognised our kicking was deficient, but now they don't need him to address this issue apparently...

It's only cost us 6 games out of the last 32 we've played, but what would mere 'fans' know?

 

[Mister Wright]

I noticed there was a 'skills' segment on Broncos Insider today where Cozza was talking about goal-kicking... Couldn't help but think the club is doing a bit of damage control there...

The interesting thing was the one he kicked on the show wasn't far from where he had to convert the Reed try on Friday night.