Round 8 - Broncos vs. Rabbitohs - Post-Game discussion

[Jason Simmons]

The interesting thing was the one he kicked on the show wasn't far from where he had to convert the Reed try on Friday night.

Yeah I noticed that. Obviously pure coincidence they added it after the CEO was asked directly about it and it cost us yet another game on Friday night...

It's not an issue though. They are totally over every aspect of the game apparently...

 

[Morkel]

So you think one-out crap is conducive to good attacking football?

If there is no place for it then one particular man named Shane Webcke was excellent at a sadly superfluous role. There is always a need for one-out running, and its main purpose of course is field position - which is exactly what the Broncos needed in order to have the best shot at a field goal.

Have you ever played football? If no, maybe I should explain why. When the opposition has a set defensive line and has time to retreat back the 10 before the PTB, unless you're on the opposition's line (and therefore no longer need field position) then one-out plays are the best way forward. Every pass loses you maybe half a second and, say, half a metre minimum (and that's a pass that'll look flat), and in that much time a charging opposition will have advanced 3-4 metres. So if you're trying to make the rule-of-thumb 10 metres per play, then you'll only get 6 or 7 if you put an extra pass in there. It's why dummy-half running is so effective early in sets, because there are no delays or loss of ground that way. The only time you should switch from one-out running is if the defensive line can't get on-side quick enough, and the only way you do that is by having big men bend the line or fast guys belly-out and get fast play-the-balls.

There are of course variations of the same thing - like running two forwards in tandem, but the only difference there is that you're using one of them to keep the defensive line in two minds, and hopefully the ensuing collision favours the runner. It's still one-out. If one forward passes to the other it'll only be because the second player has more room (because the middle defence often moves up slightly faster) or if the defence has committed too many to the primary runner and there is space for the second runner to make a break or at least bend the line better.

What happened on Friday night was that the Broncos were stringing too many passes together, and not hitting the line hard (often trying to use footwork), at a time where the Bunnies defence was on the front foot. The result was effectively zero metres gained every play. And worst of all, after all that, the defence had not been made to retreat at all so were primed to charge down the eventual drop-out attempt. One-out stuff would have undoubtedly been the better option.

 

[Nashy]

Just on this "2nd 5/8" talk. Who exactlynis our first 5/8? Surely we aren't calling Hoffman a 5/8?

 

[Alec]

If there is no place for it then one particular man named Shane Webcke was excellent at a sadly superfluous role. There is always a need for one-out running, and its main purpose of course is field position - which is exactly what the Broncos needed in order to have the best shot at a field goal.

Have you ever played football? If no, maybe I should explain why. When the opposition has a set defensive line and has time to retreat back the 10 before the PTB, unless you're on the opposition's line (and therefore no longer need field position) then one-out plays are the best way forward. Every pass loses you maybe half a second and, say, half a metre minimum (and that's a pass that'll look flat), and in that much time a charging opposition will have advanced 3-4 metres. So if you're trying to make the rule-of-thumb 10 metres per play, then you'll only get 6 or 7 if you put an extra pass in there. It's why dummy-half running is so effective early in sets, because there are no delays or loss of ground that way. The only time you should switch from one-out running is if the defensive line can't get on-side quick enough, and the only way you do that is by having big men bend the line or fast guys belly-out and get fast play-the-balls.

There are of course variations of the same thing - like running two forwards in tandem, but the only difference there is that you're using one of them to keep the defensive line in two minds, and hopefully the ensuing collision favours the runner. It's still one-out. If one forward passes to the other it'll only be because the second player has more room (because the middle defence often moves up slightly faster) or if the defence has committed too many to the primary runner and there is space for the second runner to make a break or at least bend the line better.

What happened on Friday night was that the Broncos were stringing too many passes together, and not hitting the line hard (often trying to use footwork), at a time where the Bunnies defence was on the front foot. The result was effectively zero metres gained every play. And worst of all, after all that, the defence had not been made to retreat at all so were primed to charge down the eventual drop-out attempt. One-out stuff would have undoubtedly been the better option.

You need to mix it up. Too much one out running limits your chances for creativity to just the last or so tackle, and also compresses the defence so it's less effective.
Not enough, and you end up going side to side, but not forward. There are exceptions of course, sometimes you can completely roll over a team through the middle, and sometimes you can easily find space on the edges - in these situations you obviously try the method that works more.

The Broncos seem to play either one extreme or the other (usually the former). We lack organisation.

 

[Bluebeard]

8 rounds and what do we have to show for it?

A thorough retelling of the 2013 season.

 

[Super Freak]

We were 4-4 after Round 8 last year, and we played Rabbitohs in Round 8. 2013 repeating itself? We'll find out...

 

[Bluebeard]

Anyone can see this isn't working. It's time to try a different tactic.

 

[gordjw]

Well, for those that love to quote stats, we're currently sitting 3rd on points scored and very close to #1, and our defence is sitting at 8th best.

Not too bad.

 

[Rally Towel]

We were 4-4 after Round 8 last year, and we played Rabbitohs in Round 8. 2013 repeating itself? We'll find out...

Eerie.... I'm inclined to say we'll better last year's effort by seasons end. Will be surprised and disappointed if we don't.

My recollection of last year's game was a much more dour affair. We stayed within striking distance for much of it but never looked convincing, before a couple of late tries put the result beyond doubt.

This time we really were in it up to our eyeballs, despite some poor decisions in last five minutes.

 

[broncos4life]

8 rounds and what do we have to show for it?

A thorough retelling of the 2013 season.

There's more to footy than L and W

If you actually watch the games you can tell this team has nothing in common with last season. Why can't we judge the form and outlook on the season by what happens on the field and not the win/loss ledger.

The titans are tied for first, do you think they are going to win it this year?

This team is nothing like 2013 so I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'a thorough re telling of the 2013 season'

 

[Jason Simmons]

There's more to footy than L and W

If you actually watch the games you can tell this team has nothing in common with last season. Why can't we judge the form and outlook on the season by what happens on the field and not the win/loss ledger.

The titans are tied for first, do you think they are going to win it this year?

This team is nothing like 2013 so I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'a thorough re telling of the 2013 season'

Because whatever the differences in the team between this year and last year, the actual results so far have been EXACTLY the same. If we miss out on the 8 this year but continue to be close to matching the top teams but continue to fall short as we have been, it will be rather cold comfort how 'well we competed' when we are watching everyone but us go around in September, yet again...

 

[Super Freak]

There's more to footy than L and W

If you actually watch the games you can tell this team has nothing in common with last season. Why can't we judge the form and outlook on the season by what happens on the field and not the win/loss ledger.

The titans are tied for first, do you think they are going to win it this year?

This team is nothing like 2013 so I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'a thorough re telling of the 2013 season'

I would say being unable to clinch these close games unless the other team is playing badly is something this team has in common with 2013.

 

[Brett]

I would say being unable to clinch these close games unless the other team is playing badly is something this team has in common with 2013.

Agreed, but for different reasons.

Last season we had Prince and Wallace controlling things; 2 extremely experienced halves who should have got us home.

This year we have 1 rookie half controlling the whole show and we're coming up with the same results in terms of winning and losing, but much different on field results. We look a lot better in attack this year.

 

[Dexter]

Refs were horrible. I think there's a blunder of a call they made but potentially I have the rules wrong.

Souths got a line drop out in the second half where Reynolds grubbered through. He ran past the most advanced team-mate and that team mate tackled us in goal. However, this occurred inside the 10m. Referee said to us that Reynolds ran his men on side but I could have sworn last week a penalty was given in the exact same instance because you can't run someone on side inside the 10. Anyone know the right ruling?

You are correct, the player who is inside the 10 cannot be put onside by the kicker. The commentators have said that numerous times during the season.

Out of Play 2.

An offside player shall not take any part in the game
or attempt in any way to influence the course of the
game. He shall not encroach within ten metres of an
opponent who is waiting for the ball and shall
Retire ten metres immediately retire ten metres from any opponent
who first secures possession of the ball.

Interfering with 2.

Any offside player who remains within ten metres of an
Catcher opponent who is set to catch a kick up field by an opposing
player shall be deemed to be interfering with or attempting to
interfere with the catcher and shall be penalised unless the
non-offending team gains an immediate advantage

 

[rnabokov]

For me the difference to last year is that in 2013, we had more or less, a reasonable set of combinations with 2 genuine halves irrespective of what some think of their performances, and we just couldn't gel as a team consistently with an expansive style of play.

This year, we have one semi-rookie half and our style of play by and large sees a lot more ball movement and better support play.

And then there is Barba.

I thoight v Knights, despite what I think of Hoffman at 5/8, Barba started to come good as a 2nd (or rather only proper) 5/8 on both sides of the park and the middle - play making, and coming into the line looking a threat, something we sadly lacked last year.

It seems to me like the team is getting a bit settled with Hoffman there and allowing Barba to work out his style of play and develop some combinations, as with Gillett.

The game v Souths upset our structures minus Hoffman, which I felt largely led to our worse poerformance. The Knights btw I thought played ok and we did some good things ... like score a lot points.

Maybe keeping Hoffman at 5/8 is the answer for this year IF Barba continues to develop his understandings of our team plays and structures?

 

[Bluebeard]

There's more to footy than L and W

If you actually watch the games you can tell this team has nothing in common with last season. Why can't we judge the form and outlook on the season by what happens on the field and not the win/loss ledger.

The titans are tied for first, do you think they are going to win it this year?

This team is nothing like 2013 so I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'a thorough re telling of the 2013 season'

:) Whatever you say, Broncos4life.

 

[broncos4life]

:) Whatever you say, Broncos4life.

Great discussion bluebeard, glad I wasted my time.

So you think results are the only things that matter? so form within these games, the teams form in general, means nothing?

 

[Bluebeard]

Great discussion bluebeard, glad I wasted my time.

So you think results are the only things that matter? so form within these games, the teams form in general, means nothing?

Oh, give me a break.