NEWS We got it wrong, Bellamy mentored Walters, not bennett

[Huge]

Aside from his arsehole coaches box mannerisms Bellamy is the best coach in the game. WB is the best overall coach but Bellamy has the edge if we simply look at coaching the game day team and the structures he puts in place that allows run of the mill players to become elite level, albeit temporarily.

 

[Renegade]

Aside from his arsehole coaches box mannerisms

this is the single best part of bellamy. his blowups are legendary and should be televised wall to wall where possible.

hell, just have a bellamy cam on him all game.

 

[Nashy]

this is the single best part of bellamy. his blowups are legendary and should be televised wall to wall where possible.

hell, just have a bellamy cam on him all game.

 

[Renegade]

ahahah this is great. there's another one where he looks like he's cussing out everyone in the room and then storms out. brilliant.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

The argument of well Bellamy hasn't proven himself away from Smith, Cronk, Slater blah blah is the biggest crock of shit. I have had this argument with other fans before but I may aswell have another go here just because I'm an argumentative ****.

People always point to those 3 and say anybody could have coached them. People forget that Bellamy came to that club and turned them into long term rep players. No doubt they had talent and strong will to be great but those 3 were not boom youngsters at all. They were passed over by clubs. Cronk was manufactured into a halfback. He was an outside back that filled in as a utility every now and then.

The amount of players that he has got off the scrap heap and turned them into really strong firstgraders is just astronomical. What I judge a coach on is what he gets out of players that have struggled and been in and out of first grade beforehand at other clubs. And I believe Bellamy is easily the best in that department. No doubt having probably the best ever player in your team helps but especially recently with B Smith, Croft, Munster, Hughes, Scott etc coming through I have no doubt they will be successful for as long as he wants. His ability to continue to bring through top notch young players is just amazing. That is more than just luck. Just pisses me off that he gets discredited because he coaches 3 particular players.

And it just doesn't happen to him. It happened to Bennett through the late 90s and 2000s. But it is like all sport. Coaches get hardly any credit when their teams win but all of the blame when they lose and it turns to shit.

Today If I wanted to start a team I would take Bellamy every day of the week as my coach.

That isn't my argument at all when it comes to Bellamy vs Bennett... my argument is quite simple really. Their records: let's look at 3 15 year periods....

Bennetts first 15 years: 5 premierships, 3 minor premierships, 3 state of origin series wins, coached Australia with success

Bellamys first 15 years: 1 premiership, 3 minor premierships, lost 3 origin series out of 3 (btw, bennetts teams were the under dogs just like the blues are now when he won them so don't use that excuse)

Bennetts last 15 years: 2 premierships (at 2 different clubs), 4 minor premierships (at 2 different clubs) won 1 origin series and drew one I believe (?), "supervised" New Zealand to an unbelievable World Cup win, got Newcastle their best result in 10 years when the players weren't getting paid for months on end...

And please do not use the old "the salary cap years count"... storm have won 1 grand final in 6 years since the cheating years, they played in every grand final during those years.. If they didn't change the level of the team much it sure has changed he outcome strangely enough...

And yes you are right about the amazing football department he has built down there.... which club has the storm stated time and time again that they model their football department on? By any chance was Bennett coach of that particular club at the time? Wasn't Bellamy also his assistant at this particular club? Questions worth wondering I suppose

 

[Big Pete]

I'm all for bagging the media, but that's a misleading thread title. The article was merely using Bellamy to draw a connection and explain why Kevie choosing a basket case like the Gold Coast Titans would be a silly move on his part. I didn't see anything about the article trying to dismiss Bennett's influence on Kevie.

As far as Craig goes, he's the best in the business. He's one of the few coaches where you begin to rate him against the best of all-time and while I believe he has a lot of red marks against his name, he isn't a lesser coach because history will remember Jack Gibson more fondly.

 

[Broncapz]

As amazing as Bellamy's record is, working with dynamite as a boss is stressful. I'd much rather Bennett's composure.

 

[Morkel]

The only reason he's able to make journeymen look effective is because he gives them incredibly simple roles. Roles just about any player can do if they stay disciplined and focussed. Most other clubs don't have that luxury because they don't have Cam Smith serving up the game plan and direction on a platter.

I've always likened Smith, Cronk & Slater to a 12 point head start. When you know you've got that sorted, what do you drill yourself on? Defence. Suffocating the opposition. And yeah, employing illegal and dangerous tactics.

 

[Super Freak]

As amazing as Bellamy's record is, working with dynamite as a boss is stressful. I'd much rather Bennett's composure.

There are some stories of Bennett being a fiery character as well.

 

[broncos4life]

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Why is that funny?

 

[1910]

Bellamy hasn't proven himself without Smith, aka potentially the best player of all time and a future great coach. Besides, he started his career as an assistant to, you guessed it, Wayne Bennett.

Bellamy coached at the Raiders before the Broncos.

 

[1910]

So Bellamy didn't want to put his reputation on the line with what he'd consider a lesser playing roster. He chose to stay at a club that he knew would have success, and such, that success would reflect on him.

It was 2002 he had no reputation. He took the Storm job 12 months later.

 

[JayPee]

The only reason he's able to make journeymen look effective is because he gives them incredibly simple roles. Roles just about any player can do if they stay disciplined and focussed. Most other clubs don't have that luxury because they don't have Cam Smith serving up the game plan and direction on a platter.

I've always likened Smith, Cronk & Slater to a 12 point head start. When you know you've got that sorted, what do you drill yourself on? Defence. Suffocating the opposition. And yeah, employing illegal and dangerous tactics.

The same thing could be said about lockyer and langer. Dismissing a coach getting a player to that level is silly imo. Would they have got to the same level without him? Maybe or Maybe not. Nobody will ever know. Seems this argument is only ever put on bellamy for why he isnt one of the best coaches ever. You can't win premierships or have sustained success without great players.

 

[1910]

This stuff just infuriates me with the media these days... we get they want an alternative to Bennett (7 vs 1, success at rep level vs abysmal failure, premierships at different clubs with multiple generations of players rather then just 1 generation that was built around 1-3 players and they stayed together due to cheating massively) but to imply Bellamy was Walters mentor and he learned everything from him is just plain wrong and pathetic... Walters won 5 premierships with Bennett, played ALL his professional football under him, was captain under him, assistant coach at 2 clubs on 3 different occasions, still seeks his counsel.... Bellamy had him as an assistant for 2 years and played with him at Canberra for 1 year...... Bellamy has lost 100% of his origin series (3/3) without smith, won 1 out of 3 country origin games, lost a grand final by a record margin without scoring a point, has a 25% winning record without him and has won ONE legitimate premiership in 15 years. Good coach, but get smith out of his team and he wouldn't make the top 4 ANY year or win ANY premierships, FACT. Take ANY immortal out of bennetts sides and he'd still find a way to win at least 4-5 in those years (dragons 2010, sacking Wally Lewis and the 2015 gf proved this).. minor premierships mean nothing in 2 years, ask the roosters, it's good to have your team up there to have a better chance but year after year he wears his team out. Watch the Blake green interview and you'd see Bellamy would have worn the team out of the top 8 every year if it wasn't for smith, he's a polished version of Ricky Stuart who struck gold with a once in a lifetime leader/on field coach in smith.... over the hype he gets by the media just to make out Bennett hasn't achieved much

I wish you could spend a week down there just to see how wrong you are.

Bennett lost a Grand Final by a record margin too 42-8 and Bellamy and Kevvie were at Canberra together for three years.

 

[GCBRONCO]

I'm all for bagging the media, but that's a misleading thread title. The article was merely using Bellamy to draw a connection and explain why Kevie choosing a basket case like the Gold Coast Titans would be a silly move on his part. I didn't see anything about the article trying to dismiss Bennett's influence on Kevie.

As far as Craig goes, he's the best in the business. He's one of the few coaches where you begin to rate him against the best of all-time and while I believe he has a lot of red marks against his name, he isn't a lesser coach because history will remember Jack Gibson more fondly.

If Bellamy didn't want to touch the Wests Tigers and Walters because of the current state of the Titans and want to go with more stable options I can understand that and don't blame them for it. But I must say I have more respect for Wayne Bennett and rate him higher because he has shown willingness to take on differing levels of assignments of the code at different times throughout his career(and not just later in his career either), regardless of if it will potentially tarnish his coaching record. I still regard him as the best coach in the game and If I was in charge of a new franchise he would be the coach I would be seeking for with real hands on experience of how to develop a club franchise from the beginning up.

We are talking about a coach who:

Took Souths Magpies out of the doldrums they had been in the early to mid 70's to grand finals appearances against Valleys(1979), Wynnum Manly(1984) And defeating what many people regard as at the time a NSWRL standard side Wynnum Manly outfit in the 1985 as underdogs.

Took on the difficult challenge of overcoming a resurgence of the NSW Blues in State of Origin football after their win in 1985 when the blues started to take the series seriously, though the side lost his initial series of 1986 3-0 he turned the tide with series wins in 1987 and 1988.

Co-Coached the Raiders in 1987 with Don Furner, helped develop a lot of the foundation of the success and talent base that was coming for the then recently created club and took them to their first ever grand final, a lot of the Queensland players that came to the club were developed directly under Bennett in the Brisbane competition as well.

Helped build a club from the foundation up in 1988 with the entry of the Brisbane Broncos that would become a powerhouse outfit of the game, showed he wasn't afraid to take on tough decisions that could have easily have cost his job at the Broncos in the best interests of the club(Wally Lewis captain sacking, shifting to lock and not re-signing him). Winning the Panasonic Cup of 1989, won world cup challenge against Wigan in England which no other club upto then had achieved. Delivering 6 premierships out of 7 appearances and have rarely not been in a position to make the finals and turned around one of the darkest moments in the club history with the retirement of club Legend Allan Langer and the likelyhood of a wooden spoon for the first time into a finals appearance putting them well placed for their 2000 premiership. Though people will argue under Bennett the Broncos have had superior talent to most clubs during their existence. Also like Bellamy he has also been able to get the best of players not so talented in his history such as John Plath, Chris Johns, Michael Devere, Philip Lee, Terry Matterson, Mark Hohn, Gavin Allen, David Stagg etc and turned around careers of players like Shane Perry, Harvey Howard, Adam Blair etc.

Took on the job of rebuilding the Queensland Maroons side in 2001 after it's most comprehensive flogging in SOO history in 2000. Introduced many new faces to the squad and took a huge risk by bringing Allan Langer back from the Super-league competition for the decider for which turned out to be one of the most amazing masterstrokes made at that level. Queensland would go onto holding into their trophy in 2002 in a tied series and then lost 2-1 in 2003.

Took on assistant and advisor role to New Zealand Coach Stephen Kearney to prepare them for the upcoming Centenary test against Australia and the 2008 Rugby League World Cup which the Kiwi's won.

Went to St George Illawarra Dragons and started the restructuring process in 2009 that would see the Merged club finally deliver it's maiden premiership and two minor premierships.

Newcastle Knights, Definitely the sore-mark on his career and he has to face his fair share of the blame(combined with the mess the club was with Nathan Tinkler's involvement with the club) but you don't hear people mention that in 2013 he took the club within one match of the 2013 Grand Final either.

Took on coaching role of England for 2 season in 2016, for which he was criticised for doing so, will be interesting to see how the side fairs in this years World Cup.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Why is that funny?

It's not just funny it is hilarious.

 

[GCBRONCO]

I wish you could spend a week down there just to see how wrong you are.

Bennett lost a Grand Final by a record margin too 42-8 and Bellamy and Kevvie were at Canberra together for three years.

Your talking about his first outing into the NSWRL competition where he and Don Furner took a recently created side into it's first ever grand final appearance and best ladder position at that time in its existence that prior to that was largely making up the numbers in the competition, laid a lot of the foundation and structure for the upcoming success for the Raiders. I would hardly regard that as a disappointing season.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

The same thing could be said about lockyer and langer. Dismissing a coach getting a player to that level is silly imo. Would they have got to the same level without him? Maybe or Maybe not. Nobody will ever know. Seems this argument is only ever put on bellamy for why he isnt one of the best coaches ever. You can't win premierships or have sustained success without great players.

I agree with you on this and I think Bellamy has been good for their careers. I also don't often deal in hypotheticals, but what you have to wonder is: smith would be a great without Bellamy, but would Bellamy have won a premiership without smith? Whereas Bennett has and can win premierships without immortals in his team. Slater also would have had a good career, Cronk I think he can take a lot of credit for. I, as a broncos fan, also get frustrated when people say "but you have all these great players in your team" when they started their careers there though and that isn't my argument at all...

For me it isn't that he has those players and they make him a good coach, it's more then Bennett has coached all different types of teams with different players in different situations, Bellamy went out of that environment once (origin) and got smashed. I'm not saying he couldn't, I'm saying why compare him to someone who has achieved that and a lot more over a longer period...

I'm not doubting Bellamy is a good coach, but he is no where near Bennett. He'd have to win another 3 premierships, have his cheating years be vanished from my memory while having the premierships included and win 4 state of origin series to have a positive record in the arena before I even considered it...