2011 Four Nations Discussion

[Porthoz]

So what if it was Yow Yeh's missus who pushed him to breaking point? Would you all be happy with him snotting her?

Good one mate! Comparing beating up women and punching a guy who's bigger than you... :shake:

What I don't get is that people seem to think that verbal abuse is okay, but physical abuse is a no no. ANY type of abuse is wrong and verbal abuse can sometimes cut way deeper than a punch to the face!

 

[dukey]

Good one mate! Comparing beating up women and punching a guy who's bigger than you... :shake:

What I don't get is that people seem to think that verbal abuse is okay, but physical abuse is a no no. ANY type of abuse is wrong and verbal abuse can sometimes cut way deeper than a punch to the face!

I'm not excusing Parker's behaviour at all. I'm just wondering where this 'violence as a means of argument ending' philosophy stops. What you're saying now is it's only okay to punch somebody who's bigger than you? What if Yow Yeh's missus was bigger than him? Would that then be okay?

 

[Kaz]

People who are bringing women into the argument are clutching at straws.

The what if :shake:

 

[Coxy]

No, the people who are saying it's OK that Yow Yeh hit him because Parker said he deserved it are the ones clutching at straws.
That Parker was abusing him verbally shows he's a bit of a cockhead.
That Yow Yeh retaliated by punching him shows he's a bit of a cockhead.

Two cockheads.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Yow Yeh is a skirt. Oh Corey is taking the piss out of me. I am going to hit him now. I'd have had my head caved in if my team mates reacted like Yow Yeh.

 

[Porthoz]

I'm not excusing Parker's behaviour at all. I'm just wondering where this 'violence as a means of argument ending' philosophy stops. What you're saying now is it's only okay to punch somebody who's bigger than you? What if Yow Yeh's missus was bigger than him? Would that then be okay?

And I wasn't excusing YY's behaviour either, but at least he did with someone his own size and capable of defending himself. Violence against women has nothing to do with gender, but is much more about safeguarding the physically weaker members of society, which will in general be women and of course children.

What I have trouble compreehending is how people seem to think that verbal abuse is so much better than physical abuse...

 

[Coxy]

Considering we're a nation that prides itself on sarcastic wit, deprecating humour and sledging, which has been brought up on the trite old saying "sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me", I think it's hypocritical to get upset about it and say "oh well, you deserved a smack in the mouth for that".

Maybe we should abolish verbal (and written) abuse, make it socially unacceptable. But frankly I think that's behind the list of making excessive alcohol consumption socially unacceptable the same way smoking is seen as poor form these days.

Also to make being fat, lazy, eating #### food and otherwise living an unhealthy lifestyle should be made socially unacceptable.

I reckon once you stop people thinking it's cool to be drunk and cool to be obese, then you might be able to tackle the people who think it's cool to be an arsehole.

 

[dukey]

And I wasn't excusing YY's behaviour either, but at least he did with someone his own size and capable of defending himself. Violence against women has nothing to do with gender, but is much more about safeguarding the physically weaker members of society, which will in general be women and of course children.

What I have trouble compreehending is how people seem to think that verbal abuse is so much better than physical abuse...

I don't think either is acceptable. But physical violence is an obvious and dramatic escalation of an argument. How many stories have we heard in the past few years of people being punched and put into comas or killed, by the hit itself or by hitting their head on an uneven surface? It's rare, but it still happens.
The other difference between the two is that what constitutes verbal abuse is extremely subjective. I know my mates and I call each other some pretty awful things, but we all know where the line is and what each person's humour is like. If Parker's behaviour was going too far, Jharal should've taken him aside and said as much. Maybe he did and Parker just kept going; in which case you either call him out in front of the group or leave. It's the same situation as the times that Benji has punched people out on the town. Sure, they were being turds and deliberately trying to provoke him, but in the end he's the dipsh*t who escalated it into violence.

 

[Coxy]

I don't think either is acceptable. But physical violence is an obvious and dramatic escalation of an argument. How many stories have we heard in the past few years of people being punched and put into comas or killed, by the hit itself or by hitting their head on an uneven surface? It's rare, but it still happens.
The other difference between the two is that what constitutes verbal abuse is extremely subjective. I know my mates and I call each other some pretty awful things, but we all know where the line is and what each person's humour is like. If Parker's behaviour was going too far, Jharal should've taken him aside and said as much. Maybe he did and Parker just kept going; in which case you either call him out in front of the group or leave. It's the same situation as the times that Benji has punched people out on the town. Sure, they were being turds and deliberately trying to provoke him, but in the end he's the dipsh*t who escalated it into violence.

^^^ Bingo!

 

[OXY-351]

Maybe Parker wanted to sing the team song early so he could go off and meet Lara Bingle

 

[Porthoz]

Considering we're a nation that prides itself on sarcastic wit, deprecating humour and sledging, which has been brought up on the trite old saying "sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me", I think it's hypocritical to get upset about it and say "oh well, you deserved a smack in the mouth for that".

Maybe we should abolish verbal (and written) abuse, make it socially unacceptable. But frankly I think that's behind the list of making excessive alcohol consumption socially unacceptable the same way smoking is seen as poor form these days.

Also to make being fat, lazy, eating #### food and otherwise living an unhealthy lifestyle should be made socially unacceptable.

I reckon once you stop people thinking it's cool to be drunk and cool to be obese, then you might be able to tackle the people who think it's cool to be an arsehole.

Do you know where the word sarcasm comes from and what it actually means?

Sarcasm's intent is invariably to hurt someone, or say something hurtfull to someone under the cloak of irony. It can cut so deep that people will retaliate physically, and even murder or manslaughter someone for it (it has happened about as often as people getting punched and dying or put in a coma).

I don't find it acceptable at all, as opposed to irony, which can be delicious. And more and more countries are taking a stand on it, making verbal assault a serious charge in court.

 

[Coxy]

Yeah that's all fine and dandy, I just think most people need a thicker skin. And my point which you seem to have missed is that this case, and others, are exacerbated by alcohol consumption.

If Parker and Yow Yeh weren't pissed, would Parker have gone on with being a dick verbally, and would Jharal have hit him? I reckon both are unlikely.

 

[mrslong]

Yeah that's all fine and dandy, I just think most people need a thicker skin. And my point which you seem to have missed is that this case, and others, are exacerbated by alcohol consumption.

If Parker and Yow Yeh weren't pissed, would Parker have gone on with being a dick verbally, and would Jharal have hit him? I reckon both are unlikely.

This man speaks the truth.

We need to ban alcohol!

 

[Coxy]

Well I'm not a fan of prohibition. Nor do I think the advertising bans, plain packaging etc that has beset the tobacco industry would help.

But somehow or another we need to change the social attitude to alcohol. It has to stop being cool to go out and get wasted. Let's face it, most of us have or continue to do so, but there's absolutely no doubt we were at greater risk of causing or being victims of incidents while in that state.

When sober, most people know that if you punch someone else and they fall you could kill or seriously injure them, so you might think twice, no matter how angry you get. But when drunk, that thought process clearly doesn't happen.

 

[Porthoz]

Yeah that's all fine and dandy, I just think most people need a thicker skin. And my point which you seem to have missed is that this case, and others, are exacerbated by alcohol consumption.

If Parker and Yow Yeh weren't pissed, would Parker have gone on with being a dick verbally, and would Jharal have hit him? I reckon both are unlikely.

No doubt whatsoever that alcohol was a factor in this case, and I did say so in my first post in this thread.

Alcohol consumption is not a problem. Like many other things, it's the abuse that is a problem, and it leads to situations like this one or exacerbates them.

But sarcasm on its own is as much of a problem as any other kind of abuse, and statements like people needing to get a thicker skin doesn't make it any better. It's not up to me to get a thicker skin, but it is to treat people with respect and decency, much like the admins of this forum insist people talk to eachother. I could say that if you want to use sarcasm, get a course in self defense, because some thin skinned people might be experts in street fights and punch your lights out... :finger:

Why on earth should verbal abuse be treated differently from physical or any other type of abuse?

 

[Porthoz]

Well I'm not a fan of prohibition. Nor do I think the advertising bans, plain packaging etc that has beset the tobacco industry would help.

But somehow or another we need to change the social attitude to alcohol. It has to stop being cool to go out and get wasted. Let's face it, most of us have or continue to do so, but there's absolutely no doubt we were at greater risk of causing or being victims of incidents while in that state.

When sober, most people know that if you punch someone else and they fall you could kill or seriously injure them, so you might think twice, no matter how angry you get. But when drunk, that thought process clearly doesn't happen.

It's an entirely other subject, but lifting the U18 alcohol prohibition would make a huge difference. Youth related alcohol problems are much worse in the few countries where this prohibition still exists, while in most other countries where youth gets introduced to alcohol by their parents and there is no taboo about it, there is nowhere near the same amount of problems...

 

[Kaz]

while in most other countries where youth gets introduced to alcohol by their parents and there is no taboo about it, there is nowhere near the same amount of problems...

Agree

France springs to mind.

 

[Porthoz]

Agree

France springs to mind.

Most of Europe really, except... You guessed it... Britain!