Ash Taylor granted permission to look elsewhere

[Cult]

It's not about throwing anyone under the bus. The single focal point, which your "story of amazement" seems to ignore, is that we didn't need to bring Boyd to the club. It's convenient for everyone supporting the decision to make it about Milford at 5/8, because it makes it so much easier to dismiss Taylor for Anthony!

You also fail to mention the glaring deficiencies in our halves paring, and more importantly, you completely ignore the fact that to bide his time, there should be a chance at an opportunity in the near future, which given Hunt and Milford's age, is very unlikely. So much so that WB has told him to look elsewhere.

Whether Wayne is right about this decision or not, will become apparent in the future.
I could wait and see, then be an hindsight hero if Taylor becomes what I suspect he will become, or simply pretend nothing happened if Taylor doesn't deliver on the promise, but I'll just stick my neck out now.

Can we also talk about the glaring deficiencies in Taylor's game because I'd love to hear a non-bias opinion on his defending ability, how often he's been injured, how someone who "controls a game" can not do anything until he's put through a gap as like 3rd receiver well into the game.

The facts here are the Broncos were missing a five-eight and Milford was always the one who was going to be playing there. Would you have preferred we kept Barba and/or Hoffman around in the hope that Milford would suck in the number 6 and be forced to move back to fullback and having Barba or Hoffman on whatever size contracts they were on, playing QCUP as well as possibly costing us Ofahengaue, the Nikorima's and possibly even Ash Taylor?

 

[Porthoz]

I have watched with great interest this debate, and in my view (note this is my opinion) your take on events is through the prism of your tainted and well publicized view about the circumstances in which Bennett came back and the decision to bring Boyd back. Given that the existing fullback options were Barba (who is setting the world on fire at Cronulla) and Hoffman, who could not nail the position down here, and is failing to do so at the Titans, I very much believe that there was a need for Boyd. But we will just have to agree to disagree about that. You are entitled to your well established opinion about that, and I am old enough to realize that you will not shift in your view (and nor should you have to).

If we adopt your line of argument and we accept that Boyd was not required, I presume that you would have played Milford at fullback and who would you have played at five-eighth? The options are fairly slim. Taylor may think he is ready for NRL, he is not (once again in my opinion) He is about a year to two years away yet. You talk about the glaring deficiencies in our halves, and I take it again that in the world of Porthoz the panacea for all of that is an under 20's half who has yet to play a full season of under 20's, has an injury history and has deficiencies in his own game? Do not get me wrong, I think he is going to be a good player, and potentially a very good player, but does potential supplant what Hunt has shown and is showing? It may be the case that Hunt does not further develop, only time will tell.

And by the way, I did not at any time state that either Hunt or Milford were finished products incapable of improvement, once again a common tactic of yours in putting words in other people's mouths. I would have thought that even you should have picked up that the comment `and continues to work on the weaknesses in his game' was an open acknowledgement that there are weaknesses in his game, but perhaps I should have made it more obvious. Ultimately, you will never be swayed from your viewpoint, which either arises from the prism of your views about Bennett or Boyd, or from rose coloured glasses about Taylor. I personally would like to see him stay, but I will watch with interest to see if he develops into this superstar that you and others have tagged him as.

First of all, I've always had a lot of respect for your opinion, regardless of whether I agreed with it or not. I don't wish to mix you with some other BHQ figures with whom I don't expect to have a valuable discussion.

You're starting from a false premise, mixing Bennett and Boyd's recruitments and my opinions on those.

I have a very consolidated opinion about the method which allowed WB's return to the club. Through the information I have (some of it quite public, some of it not), which was largely discussed at the time, I completely disapprove of how things unfolded. There's no point or sense to bring it up again here, as no matter what your and other's opinions may be, this is totally separate from the Boyd issue!

It seems that what we fundamentally disagree on, is whether or not players from the U20's were able to make it in FG.
It's your assertion that we only had Barba and Hoffman to fill the fullback position. I say we also had at least Kahu and Jayden Nikorima, as well as the main candidate, which was Milford. I made it very clear at the time, that this would cost us a youngster, specifically one of Taylor or Jikorima, so this is not hindsight backlash.
Fact is, we managed quite well without Boyd, Barba or Hoffman, with Kahu and even Maranta doing worthy jobs in the custodian role.

If Milford was indeed put at fullback, we would have still had both Nikorima brothers, Taylor and of course Hunt to fill the halves roles. Of course, you'll argue that none of the youngsters was ready for the NRL, and there is no way to argue the contrary, as there is no evidence proving it.
However, WB himself is now on the record saying that Taylor is ready for the NRL, only a few weeks after Boyd returned from his injury, and is encouraging Ashley to find another club, because there is no spot for him here in the near future at the Broncos. Why is that? Because he will not move Boyd from FB and Milford from 5/8... hence the circle is complete, and we are back at the point where there was no need to get Boyd.

Finally, on my rose tinted Taylor glasses. You are absolutely right about that, but that is my point entirely.
I have a lot of faith in young Ash, because I have seen the kid play since he was 14-15, and he has always been years ahead of anyone else, not only in his footy, but especially in his maturity.
He is a natural halfback, and albeit young and inexperienced, already well ahead of Hunt in many aspects that define a HB role, especially those "weaknesses" which Hunt is still working on. The things Taylor would need to work and improve on, are much easier to train and learn than Hunt's, whom imo, would be much better off playing his natural game next to a Taylor type half. Indeed, it is also my opinion that Hunt is more suited to play 5/8 than Halfback.

Add all of the above to the fact that I believe that there is nothing Milford couldn't do from FB that he is doing now from 5/8, and Wayne's inability (IMO) to be impartial with Boyd, and you have the core of my reasoning against Boyd's recruitment.

Notwithstanding Boyd's quality, if I had to choose between him and Ashley, it would be a no brainer. The worst part is that it isn't even necessary. I wouldn't get rid of Boyd at all... but he would definitely be moved to the 3/4 line if I had a say.

 

[Cult]

Just because someone is ready for the NRL, doesn't mean they're ready for the Broncos. This isn't 2013 anymore.

 

[lynx000]

Basically. But if Boyd wanted to be closer to the action, i would be happy for him to move to center as well.

I only say Hunt to 6 and Taylor to 7, because IMO, hunt plays more of a traditional 5/8 style while Taylor is more like a half back. But 6 and 7 a pretty much interchangeable these days.

Also as good as Milford has been going at 6, the extra room at fullback (not to mention his time playing 6 and developing his play making skills) would make him so much more dangerous.

Boyd is a solid dependable player, a good runner of the ball, good finishing skills and an ability yo set up his outside man ... The perfect player for center or wing.

All my opinion of course

I agree with Nashy's view below. That is a hell of a lot of disruption to make to a side having a winning season to accommodate a rookie. For a start, and this is only my humble opinion, at the moment Boyd when you assess their all round games, is a better fullback option than Milford. That change would weaken the side. Taking your example of Boyd to centre, presumably he replaces Reed. That would also weaken the team in my view. You are moving an established centre with good defence to replace him with a player that has not regularly or recently played in that position. In the short term also a weakening of the team. At this stage Taylor for Milford would also be weakening the side in my view. Taylor does not have Milford's running game or his x-factor and I believe that it is likely that his defence will be found to be worse than Milford's at NRL level as well. But that is my view.

 

[lynx000]

First of all, I've always had a lot of respect for your opinion, regardless of whether I agreed with it or not. I don't wish to mix you with some other BHQ figures with whom I don't expect to have a valuable discussion.

You're starting from a false premise, mixing Bennett and Boyd's recruitments and my opinions on those.

I have a very consolidated opinion about the method which allowed WB's return to the club. Through the information I have (some of it quite public, some of it not), which was largely discussed at the time, I completely disapprove of how things unfolded. There's no point or sense to bring it up again here, as no matter what your and other's opinions may be, this is totally separate from the Boyd issue!

It seems that what we fundamentally disagree on, is whether or not players from the U20's were able to make it in FG.
It's your assertion that we only had Barba and Hoffman to fill the fullback position. I say we also had at least Kahu and Jayden Nikorima, as well as the main candidate, which was Milford. I made it very clear at the time, that this would cost us a youngster, specifically one of Taylor or Jikorima, so this is not hindsight backlash.
Fact is, we managed quite well without Boyd, Barba or Hoffman, with Kahu and even Maranta doing worthy jobs in the custodian role.

If Milford was indeed put at fullback, we would have still had both Nikorima brothers, Taylor and of course Hunt to fill the halves roles. Of course, you'll argue that none of the youngsters was ready for the NRL, and there is no way to argue the contrary, as there is no evidence proving it.
However, WB himself is now on the record saying that Taylor is ready for the NRL, only a few weeks after Boyd returned from his injury, and is encouraging Ashley to find another club, because there is no spot for him here in the near future at the Broncos. Why is that? Because he will not move Boyd from FB and Milford from 5/8... hence the circle is complete, and we are back at the point where there was no need to get Boyd.

Finally, on my rose tinted Taylor glasses. You are absolutely right about that, but that is my point entirely.
I have a lot of faith in young Ash, because I have seen the kid play since he was 14-15, and he has always been years ahead of anyone else, not only in his footy, but especially in his maturity.
He is a natural halfback, and albeit young and inexperienced, already well ahead of Hunt in many aspects that define a HB role, especially those "weaknesses" which Hunt is still working on. The things Taylor would need to work and improve on, are much easier to train and learn than Hunt's, whom imo, would be much better off playing his natural game next to a Taylor type half. Indeed, it is also my opinion that Hunt is more suited to play 5/8 than Halfback.

Add all of the above to the fact that I believe that there is nothing Milford couldn't do from FB that he is doing now from 5/8, and Wayne's inability (IMO) to be impartial with Boyd, and you have the core of my reasoning against Boyd's recruitment.

Notwithstanding Boyd's quality, if I had to choose between him and Ashley, it would be a no brainer. The worst part is that it isn't even necessary. I wouldn't get rid of Boyd at all... but he would definitely be moved to the 3/4 line if I had a say.

Good reply Port, and I take your points which are well made. As I noted in another post I would have liked to have seen Taylor be given a shot in the NRL team to see how he went. Ultimately you may well be proven right (and I hope for the kid's sake that you are) and he wins rookie of the year next year playing somewhere else. Perhaps the player that should have been let go was Kodi and Taylor and Jayden kept, but the fundamental difficulty would remain how to fit them in. If he does go I hope we get him back at some stage.

 

[Foordy]

I agree with Nashy's view below. That is a hell of a lot of disruption to make to a side having a winning season to accommodate a rookie. For a start, and this is only my humble opinion, at the moment Boyd when you assess their all round games, is a better fullback option than Milford. That change would weaken the side. Taking your example of Boyd to centre, presumably he replaces Reed. That would also weaken the team in my view. You are moving an established centre with good defence to replace him with a player that has not regularly or recently played in that position. In the short term also a weakening of the team. At this stage Taylor for Milford would also be weakening the side in my view. Taylor does not have Milford's running game or his x-factor and I believe that it is likely that his defence will be found to be worse than Milford's at NRL level as well. But that is my view.

As well as Reed has been going the last few weeks, I personally don't think he should be in our full strength lineup with Boyd at fullback, so Boyd taking his place at center wouldn't worry me.

 

[Porthoz]

Good reply Port, and I take your points which are well made. As I noted in another post I would have liked to have seen Taylor be given a shot in the NRL team to see how he went. Ultimately you may well be proven right (and I hope for the kid's sake that you are) and he wins rookie of the year next year playing somewhere else. Perhaps the player that should have been let go was Kodi and Taylor and Jayden kept, but the fundamental difficulty would remain how to fit them in. If he does go I hope we get him back at some stage.

Well, I guess only the future will tell, but I hope you're right about the latter!

 

[Huge]

Some plainly silly statements around. We didn't need a fullback this year ! Ha, if not Boyd then who ? Milford, no he was always coming to play 5/8 and it had nothing to do with Boyd. As for WB and his arrival, all of Porthozs claims are false. WB didn't thing wrong at all and acted honourably the whole time. The alleged private dastardly deed was never committed as claimed by Porthoz who knows nothing of what went on behind the scenes.

As for Taylor, who cares. A promising junior gets a chance somewhere else, hardly a new thing and I wish him well. The insanity of changing the team all around to fit the unproven Taylor in staggering but not surprising for people who have trouble admitting they could be wrong about something.

 

[Nashy]

It's odd that out of all the posters with a similar opinion, you only have a go at Porthoz.

 

[Cult]

Yeah it seems everyone on here can pick and choose whom they respond to based on which rebuttal they can find a flaw in. Still eagerly awaiting a response to my earlier comments.

 

[rogerwilco]

Just as this season was beginning to feel too good to be true...

This is a terrible decision by Bennett. Why would you release one of the best juniors in Rugby League when he's still got another year on his contract? How does it benefit the club?

It isn't in Taylor's best interests either. He isn't ready for a full season of NRL just yet and requires more seasoning at a good club. Sending him off to Manly or the Gold Coast will simply hinder his development and prevent him from becoming the player he's destined to be.

Oh well, can't get every decision right.

This is why Wayne Bennett is coach and you are not. Broncos would love to keep him but Wayne was honest with Ashley and this is how it turned out. Wayne did not want to stop him from achieving his dream so Wayne told him told him if he really wanted to play first grade he would not stop him from leaving.

 

[Big Pete]

I just completely disagree with the notion that Taylor is NRL ready.

Taylor is a player of serious potential, but I strongly believe he shouldn't be a regular starter until 2017. Player development is vastly undervalued in Rugby League and I believe it's a mistake for all parties involved.

Maybe there is more to it, but I can only react to the information we've got.

Milford was always going to be our five eighth with or without Bennett. That much was obvious when he was supposed to arrive here with 2014 and the spine was supposed to be Barba/Milford/Hunt/McCullough. It was Hunt's position that remained in question and he still has question marks over his position long term.

I believe it would have been best to give everybody as much time as possible and get a clearer idea of where everybody is truly at. Hunt's biggest test is over the coming months and if he fails, at least there is a Plan B in place. As much as I enjoy watching Jayden Nikorima, a Milford/Taylor combination fills me with more confidence.

Sadly this situation is a bitter dose of reality. We don't live in a perfect world where things happen as they should. Bennett has made a decision and it's OK to disagree with that decision but I'm not going to disrespect it by bringing it up in unrelated threads. All I can do is hope it pans out for everyone.

This is why Wayne Bennett is coach and you are not.

I can think of several reasons why Bennett is a more qualified coach than some ham and egger on a message board.

Disagreeing with his position on a player would not exactly be high on that list.

 

[rogerwilco]

A huge portion of coaching a football team is about managing the players as individuals (which I am sure you and most others are aware). That is what has happened here and it is also why Wayne is considered the best.

 

[Big Pete]

Generally he is good in that aspect, but he isn't above making mistakes and he's owned up to them before.

This place would be awfully dull if everyone just touted the company line.

 

[Alec]

Hunt has never been an organiser, and Milford has even less skill at controlling the game (that is, nil). I don't see how Hunt's position should be more under pressure than Milford's in the halves when he has to do the majority of the organisational stuff. He'll never have Thurston's or Lockyer's talents and I doubt he'll ever have Cronk's humongous dedication to get all the little things right, so it's all the more pressure on him.

I'm not 100% sold on Hunt either though. He still hasn't shown much besides his short side plays.

 

[Big Pete]

Milford has even less skill at controlling the game (that is, nil)

Rubbish.

You've shown your hand here.

 

[Ari Gold]

Some plainly silly statements around. We didn't need a fullback this year ! Ha, if not Boyd then who ? Milford, no he was always coming to play 5/8 and it had nothing to do with Boyd.

Just because Milford was signed with Hook's intent to play him at five eight it does not mean he had to play there. That's like saying Josh Hoffman had to be our fullback because we re-signed him as a fullback. It's another "plainly silly statement". There are plenty of valid reasons why Milford should be our five eight, but because we signed him to be just isn't one of them.

As for not needing a fullback, Kahu has also been immensely impressive when deputising this year. People love to talk about our winning record this year as to why Taylor shouldn't be fitted in. And that's a perfectly correct point of view. Yet they somehow forget that most of those wins were also without Boyd. Can hardly say we are having a winning record and then discount the frankly outstanding performances of Kahu in that position.

Anyway, given what's happened so far logic always dictated that Taylor would leave. It's not a mistake to let him leave now. The mistake IMO was signing Boyd and playing Milford at five eight. Hopefully I'm wrong and it works out really well for us. But I don't pay any attention to the fact we've done well so far. This is a monumentally important decision that will be measured in premierships, not good starts to the season.

 

[Huge]

It's odd that out of all the posters with a similar opinion, you only have a go at Porthoz.

There aren't that many , actually none who have the opinion that WB acted dishonourably and certainly none who claim to know the whole 'truth' , who claim to know with 100% certainty about private conversations that they couldn't possibly have heard. Yes, Porthoz is absolutely full of it, up to the eyeballs. Making ludicrous claims and libellous slanders about a subject he cannot possibly know all about. The worst kind of mathematician , 2+2 = 5.

As for his opinion of Taylor, that is something I can understand as it is underpinned with a sort of logic albeit bitter and twisted with spite. His baseless attack on a mans integrity and inferred slur without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.