Ashes Discussion

[BroncosFever]

Because he's played more tests?

Lyon's test average was above 34 most of his career, in fact it's never been under 30. He was picked on a FC average of 34+.

Leach test av is currently below 30, he's played 16 tests and already has a wicket in his 17th. His FC average is 26.47.

I hate to break it to you but Lyon just isn't as great as you think he is. Just have a look at his FC record if you don't believe me. He seriously wouldn't have played 10 tests if he was from any other top tier nation.

p.s. before you come at me with the "Lyon bowls in Australian conditions" just compare his FC average to SOK's. A sub30 average in Australia is very achievable.

Lyon could get all 10, you'd still find a hole.

Nearly has 400 wickets ffs, in rare company

 

[BooKhaki]

Because he's played more tests?

Lyon's test average was above 34 most of his career, in fact it's never been under 30. He was picked on a FC average of 34+.

Leach test av is currently below 30, he's played 16 tests and already has a wicket in his 17th. His FC average is 26.47.

I hate to break it to you but Lyon just isn't as great as you think he is. Just have a look at his FC record if you don't believe me. He seriously wouldn't have played 10 tests if he was from any other top tier nation.

p.s. before you come at me with the "Lyon bowls in Australian conditions" just compare his FC average to SOK's. A sub30 average in Australia is very achievable.

Because he has more tests, more wickets, more 5fas.

You're also comparing different FC competitions. Leach playing County cricket, with a diluted talent pool because they have 15+ teams in the comp. And you're also comparing 2 left arm spinners vs a right arm spinner which is a big difference and have different advantages pending who they bowl to.

I'll take Lyons 399 test wickets ahead of Leachs 60ish.

 

[The True King]

Lyon could get all 10, you'd still find a hole.

Nearly has 400 wickets ffs, in rare company

Alistair Cook played a shit ton of tests and is in the top 5 run scorers of all time. He'd be lucky to make a list of the top 50 batsmen ever. Being in 'rare company' doesn't make him an amazing player.

I don't get the obsession with Lyon's wicket tally. He has played 100+ tests as a bowler, he's about where you'd expect an average bowler to be. Evidence by the fact that there is only one bowler ahead of him with a similar or worse average, and that is a fellow spinner that wouldn't even get close to the best ever Indian XI.

 

[Fitzy]

Here is Carey’s true test. Let’s see what he is made of!

**How to delete a post?**

 

[BroncosFever]

Alistair Cook played a shit ton of tests and is in the top 5 run scorers of all time. He'd be lucky to make a list of the top 50 batsmen ever. Being in 'rare company' doesn't make him an amazing player.

I don't get the obsession with Lyon's wicket tally. He has played 100+ tests as a bowler, he's about where you'd expect an average bowler to be. Evidence by the fact that there is only one bowler ahead of him with a similar or worse average, and that is a fellow spinner that wouldn't even get close to the best ever Indian XI.

You're sitting there telling us all how shit he is, just wondering who you'd pick ahead of him?

He's the most consistent spinner we have in terms of line/length and minimal bad deliveries, I have already said it but I will say it again, that's what makes him great

 

[The True King]

Because he has more tests, more wickets, more 5fas.

You're also comparing different FC competitions. Leach playing County cricket, with a diluted talent pool because they have 15+ teams in the comp. And you're also comparing 2 left arm spinners vs a right arm spinner which is a big difference and have different advantages pending who they bowl to.

I'll take Lyons 399 test wickets ahead of Leachs 60ish.

Honest question - do you think Lyon is a better bowler than SOK?

 

[Trill Harrigan]

that was a fucking stupid shot from carey on day 2 leading by just 89 with the tail almost exposed

cummins will sort it out tho

 

[The True King]

You're sitting there telling us all how shit he is, just wondering who you'd pick ahead of him?

He's the most consistent spinner we have in terms of line/length and minimal bad deliveries, I have already said it but I will say it again, that's what makes him great

I am simply refuting the argument that he is great.

He is far from it. He's average. That alone should be enough to question why we persist with him.

 

[BooKhaki]

Honest question - do you think Lyon is a better bowler than SOK?

Yes.

 

[mitch222]

They really need to get another 100 runs considering the position they were in at lunch.

 

[BroncosFever]

I am simply refuting the argument that he is great.

He is far from it. He's average. That alone should be enough to question why we persist with him.

That doesn't do anything though, you can't throw stones at a bloke when he's the best we have.

My personal feeling is that you grew up watching Shane Warne carve teams up single handedly and you think that's what a great spinner looks like, that's not what a great spinner looks like, that's what a once in a lifetime spinner looks like.

We don't have any of those around and it's highly unlikely we will have anytime soon, Nathan Lyon does a role and he does it brilliantly.

 

[BooKhaki]

That doesn't do anything though, you can't throw stones at a bloke when he's the best we have.

My personal feeling is that you grew up watching Shane Warne carve teams up single handedly and you think that's what a great spinner looks like, that's not what a great spinner looks like, that's what a once in a lifetime spinner looks like.

We don't have any of those around and it's highly unlikely we will have anytime soon, Nathan Lyon does a role and he does it brilliantly.

I think this bloke said finger spin isn't effective when trying to argue for Swepson. Might be a different poster, but its a similarly rubbish opinion.

 

[Fitzy]

that was a fucking stupid shot from carey on day 2 leading by just 89 with the tail almost exposed

cummins will sort it out tho

He heard Inglis got out for 6 in the Aus A game and decided to call it quits

 

[Trill Harrigan]

Honest question - do you think Lyon is a better bowler than SOK?

yes lol

 

[The True King]

Yes.

You're probably one of those weird people that thinks Clarke was better than Steve Smith based purely on test caps, test runs and test tons.

That doesn't do anything though, you can't throw stones at a bloke when he's the best we have.

My personal feeling is that you grew up watching Shane Warne carve teams up single handedly and you think that's what a great spinner looks like, that's not what a great spinner looks like, that's what a once in a lifetime spinner looks like.

We don't have any of those around and it's highly unlikely we will have anytime soon, Nathan Lyon does a role and he does it brilliantly.

I'm comparing Lyon to guys of similar ilk, i.e. Harbajhan, Shah etc. I also compared him to SOK (being Australian and of a similar generation). I made a comparison to Leach, who is far ahead of where Lyon was at a similar point in his career.

I didn't bother comparing him to Ashwin/Jadeja because that would be a waste of time as they are both far superior bowlers. There are plenty more in that category.

I'm not saying we have a better option or that I know who the next Warne is. I just truly don't understand why people use the volume of wickets as an argument as to why he can't be questioned, he's played so many tests because we haven't bothered to take a look at anyone else (again he was picked on a 34av in FC and no one else in his generation has been given that shot).

I think our hesitance to give someone else a go stems from the struggles to replace Warne. That's fair enough and I accept there aren't obvious alternatives but Lyon's wicket tally really isn't that impressive when you put it into context.

 

[BooKhaki]

You're probably one of those weird people that thinks Clarke was better than Steve Smith based purely on test caps, test runs and test tons.


I'm comparing Lyon to guys of similar ilk, i.e. Harbajhan, Shah etc. I also compared him to SOK (being Australian and of a similar generation). I made a comparison to Leach, who is far ahead of where Lyon was at a similar point in his career.

I didn't bother comparing him to Ashwin/Jadeja because that would be a waste of time as they are both far superior bowlers. There are plenty more in that category.

I'm not saying we have a better option or that I know who the next Warne is. I just truly don't understand why people use the volume of wickets as an argument as to why he can't be questioned, he's played so many tests because we haven't bothered to take a look at anyone else (again he was picked on a 34av in FC and no one else in his generation has been given that shot)

Clarke was a better captain, Smith is the better batsman.

 

[Sproj]

Well this isn’t good for Head

 

[Battler]

SOK retired with a better FC record than Warne (Warne had a better test avg than FC avg so the fact that he played a heap of tests doesn't inflate his FC avg). SOK deserved an extended run in the side despite the bizarre criticism levied at him over the years.

However, the same applies for blokes like David Hussey who was overlooked for no hopers like Marsh and North when he was averaging 55+ in FC cricket.