Australia vs India - Test Series

[Bongo]

Is Nathan Lyon any danger of bowling a team to victory on day 5 at home?

He is the best we have but he was very ordinary this series.

 

[Sproj]

I am a big believer in picking the best gloveman. I'm just not sure who that is in Domestic cricket. A good gloveman that can bat and is young enough to grow with the gloves is the next best option. However, we mainly have batsmen who are part time keepers. I don't rate Carey with bat or gloves. If not Paine McDermott/Phillipe seems the next best options so I think we have to stick with Paine for the moment.

In batting I am a big no to Maxwell. White ball only. He has the same problem as Wade. Not test quality in my view.

Our batting certainties are, Warner, Pucovski, Smith, Labuschagne, Green.

Wade, Harris and Head in my view are not good enough batsmen for test cricket. I like the idea of partnering Khawaja or Renshaw with Warner and putting Pucovski at 5. Khawaja has a good opening record and I think Renshaw has the potential to be a long term quality

In the bowling Paine badly rotated the bowlers and I think we suffered not resting our main bowlers for a test. Pattinson and Neser could have got a game and done the job.

This is a good post but I don’t agree ahead isn’t test quality. I mean he isn’t at the moment but it isn’t because of technique and ability, it is purely mental, he needs to lose those lapses in concentration once he gets to 30. If he can do that, he is easily one of the best bets in Aus but it is a big if.

Starc sadly has to go, he just doesn’t offer anything on a flat pitch. Richardson is always a handful and should be the third quick moving forward.

Lyon is an issue but as is usually the case, spinners are in short supply in Aus. Swepson got absolutely annihilated by India in the Aus A game. Who knows what to do here.

As for keeper, take a punt on Inglis. Phillipe will make it in eventually but Inglis at least has some runs on the board and especially so this season. I am also not a fan of Carey.

If Paine is gone, the question of who captains doesn’t really have an answer but so be it, he looked past it this series with the gloves and as captain.

 

[The True King]

I think it will inevitably be Carey. He's average with both bat and gloves but its always thrown around that he's a great leader and one of the good blokes in the dressing room. We constantly hear that about guys the selectors and CA fancy, M Marsh comes to mind. The fact Carey has been part of our ODI and T20i teams for the last few years means he has the experience too.

I wouldn't be picking him personally but the selectors have runs on the board when it comes to selecting their favourites and I can't remember the last time we gambled on a young keeper. Carey fits the profile almost perfectly. Hopefully Inglis, Phillippe, Peirson and McDermott can continue scoring runs to keep the pressure on him.

Whichever way they go just getting rid of Paine is a step in the right direction.

Edit: I'll add that I hope McDermott picks up the gloves in shield cricket.

 

[BroncsFan]

I think it will inevitably be Carey. He's average with both bat and gloves but its always thrown around that he's a great leader and one of the good blokes in the dressing room. We constantly hear that about guys the selectors and CA fancy, M Marsh comes to mind. The fact Carey has been part of our ODI and T20i teams for the last few years means he has the experience too.

I wouldn't be picking him personally but the selectors have runs on the board when it comes to selecting their favourites and I can't remember the last time we gambled on a young keeper. Carey fits the profile almost perfectly. Hopefully Inglis, Phillippe, Peirson and McDermott can continue scoring runs to keep the pressure on him.

Whichever way they go just getting rid of Paine is a step in the right direction.

Edit: I'll add that I hope McDermott picks up the gloves in shield cricket.

I was having a look at McDermott's stats to see if he was keeping only to realise Paine keeps in Tas (duh )... he might have to move teams if he's serious about his keeping... although Paine is probably close to retiring from all forms soon enough. He's almost in consideration from his batting alone which is a good sign.

I think Phillippe will jump Carey into the T20 team, but still has a way to go for the ODI and Test teams.

Carey is probably the right selection as the next keeper at this point in time so time will tell if he has the temperament to bat and keep well at test level.

Does CA look to stick with Paine through to the test championship though (I think it's June this year).... seems an appropriate time to make a call on his career. Or does Paine call it after the Ashes next summer.

We don't have an obvious heir apparent for the captaincy so it would be a big call to go into arguably our biggest test rivalry with a rookie captain, especially after losing this year's home test series

 

[The True King]

I was having a look at McDermott's stats to see if he was keeping only to realise Paine keeps in Tas (duh )... he might have to move teams if he's serious about his keeping... although Paine is probably close to retiring from all forms soon enough. He's almost in consideration from his batting alone which is a good sign.

I think Phillippe will jump Carey into the T20 team, but still has a way to go for the ODI and Test teams.

Carey is probably the right selection as the next keeper at this point in time so time will tell if he has the temperament to bat and keep well at test level.

Does CA look to stick with Paine through to the test championship though (I think it's June this year).... seems an appropriate time to make a call on his career. Or does Paine call it after the Ashes next summer.

We don't have an obvious heir apparent for the captaincy so it would be a big call to go into arguably our biggest test rivalry with a rookie captain, especially after losing this year's home test series

Interesting points. I thought about the Tas keeping situation too. For me, if Paine is axed or calls it quits from tests there makes little to no sense for him to keep in FC cricket. The only scenario I see that happening would be if McDermott is in the test squad and Paine just wants to keep playing for fun and to give back to the game in his twilight. McDermott should get priority if we see him as a long term option.

In terms of timing for Paine to go, it seems the media are spinning the narrative that he's earned the right to decide when he goes. I think he'll try hang on through the Ashes but no doubt a poor series v RSA and he's finished.

For his successor it just has to be Smith, even if it's only temporary. Marnus is too inexperienced and doesn't strike me as a natural leader although he may grow into it one day. He's the only other option that has job security. I don't consider the bowlers because they already have enough to think about without the need for field settings, bowling rotations, declarations, coin tosses etc.

 

[Dexter]

This is a good post but I don’t agree ahead isn’t test quality. I mean he isn’t at the moment but it isn’t because of technique and ability, it is purely mental, he needs to lose those lapses in concentration once he gets to 30. If he can do that, he is easily one of the best bets in Aus but it is a big if.

Starc sadly has to go, he just doesn’t offer anything on a flat pitch. Richardson is always a handful and should be the third quick moving forward.

Lyon is an issue but as is usually the case, spinners are in short supply in Aus. Swepson got absolutely annihilated by India in the Aus A game. Who knows what to do here.

As for keeper, take a punt on Inglis. Phillipe will make it in eventually but Inglis at least has some runs on the board and especially so this season. I am also not a fan of Carey.

If Paine is gone, the question of who captains doesn’t really have an answer but so be it, he looked past it this series with the gloves and as captain.

This is true but isn't that the same in most sports. The physical abilities of the elite players are very even but the truly elite have a better capacity to handle pressure. They think better, react better, concentrate better a lot more than others.
There have been so many players across all sports who have superior physical abilities but it doesn't translate into results often enough ( Maxwell, Kyrgios ) .

As for Paine, he needs to be managed out of the side. Smith to captain then see if his keeping improves without the weight of field placements, bowling changes, tactics etc .

 

[Broncapz]

This is true but isn't that the same in most sports. The physical abilities of the elite players are very even but the truly elite have a better capacity to handle pressure. They think better, react better, concentrate better a lot more than others.
There have been so many players across all sports who have superior physical abilities but it doesn't translate into results often enough ( Maxwell, Kyrgios ) .

As for Paine, he needs to be managed out of the side. Smith to captain then see if his keeping improves without the weight of field placements, bowling changes, tactics etc .

Great players have the physical attributes. Elite player have mental toughness on top of that.

 

[Kooly87]

In the bowling Paine badly rotated the bowlers and I think we suffered not resting our main bowlers for a test. Pattinson and Neser could have got a game and done the job.

I fully appreciate how hard it must be to weigh up resting anyone in that bowling line up given how prolific they've been and how crucial the series was, but I do agree ultimately not making that call probably played a big role in not winning this series. Whether that blame rests with Paine, the Selectors, the Bowlers themselves or a combination of any or all of them is debateable, but in the end I think it's fair to say we got that one wrong.

Even the all conquering Australian sides of the past relied on both forced and unforced rotation of the bowlers from time to time. Guys like Andy Bichel, Michael Kasprowicz and Colin Miller, obviously among plenty of others, are somewhat unsung heroes from that golden era or Aussie Test cricket and there is no doubt that our success during those eras rested in part on being able to call on high quality guys like them to come into the side and just rip in for one or two Tests with no worry about self preservation or fatigue.

It's not like the quality isn't there. Pattinson would make just about any other Test side in the World and Neser isn't far behind him either. One Test or even just one brutal spell from either of these guys could have well and truly turned the tide of the series once it was starting to drift away from us.

 

[1910]

I was having a look at McDermott's stats to see if he was keeping only to realise Paine keeps in Tas (duh )... he might have to move teams if he's serious about his keeping... although Paine is probably close to retiring from all forms soon enough. He's almost in consideration from his batting alone which is a good sign.

I think Phillippe will jump Carey into the T20 team, but still has a way to go for the ODI and Test teams.

Carey is probably the right selection as the next keeper at this point in time so time will tell if he has the temperament to bat and keep well at test level.

Does CA look to stick with Paine through to the test championship though (I think it's June this year).... seems an appropriate time to make a call on his career. Or does Paine call it after the Ashes next summer.

We don't have an obvious heir apparent for the captaincy so it would be a big call to go into arguably our biggest test rivalry with a rookie captain, especially after losing this year's home test series

I doubt he's that serious, Dunk, Wade and Paine have all kept in his six years in Tasmania and it has never bothered him.

You don't wait 37 games and three players in front of you if you're unhappy.

 

[1910]

I think people are underselling Carey's keeping- It was only 2017 Carey broke the Shield record with 59 dismissals in a season. He had a great season and SA made the shield final- he scored runs that year too.

 

[The True King]

I think people are underselling Carey's keeping- It was only 2017 Carey broke the Shield record with 59 dismissals in a season. He had a great season and SA made the shield final- he scored runs that year too.

Bowling attack of Sayers, Mennie, Richardson, Worrall and Zampa. Those are decent numbers but have a look at the bowlers -- there would have been no shortage of chances.

He averaged 33.00 with the bat that season, 0 centuries, 5 fifties and 2 ducks. For context that was the season that Ed Cowan and Hilton Cartwright were leading run scorers (he was 16th behind P Nevill) so I'm not sure his runs back then are all that relevant.

Wasn't it you (literally a couple days ago) going on about how Paine was the equal quickest to 150 test dismissals, had the 2nd highest batting average of test keepers and something about caps as captain?

Ironic that after defending him so vigorously you've now jumped into the succession conversation.

 

[1910]

Bowling attack of Sayers, Mennie, Richardson, Worrall and Zampa. Those are decent numbers but have a look at the bowlers -- there would have been no shortage of chances.

He averaged 33.00 with the bat that season, 0 centuries, 5 fifties and 2 ducks. For context that was the season that Ed Cowan and Hilton Cartwright were leading run scorers (he was 16th behind P Nevill) so I'm not sure his runs back then are all that relevant.

Wasn't it you (literally a couple days ago) going on about how Paine was the equal quickest to 150 test dismissals, had the 2nd highest batting average of test keepers and something about caps as captain?

Ironic that after defending him so vigorously you've now jumped into the succession conversation.

Any keeper lives by his bowlers, Harts and Chuck had the record before that, I am sure Bulls' all star pace attack playing at the 'Gabba played a part.

He was only the fourth guy to get 50/500 runs in a season so he had a pretty good year, after that his SS appearance dropped off because he started to make the Australian side and he's never got back to those numbers again.

Not ironic at all, but if the conversation is going to happen and I have never said it shouldn't happen I can contribute.

 

[ivanhungryjak]

This tweet. For background, a random Tim Payne has been copping it on Twitter from Indian cricket fans. The reply is from a random Steve Smith who also gets regularly bombarded.

 

[The True King]

Reading that Victoria Cricket won't be considering Maxwell or Finch for shield cricket moving forward with a priority of focusing on young players.

CA must be calling the shots behind the scenes. Either way that pretty much rules out any chance Maxwell (32yo) has of a test recall.

Stupidity. What's the bet that WA won't do the same for Marsh who is 37yo.

 

[Sproj]

Reading that Victoria Cricket won't be considering Maxwell or Finch for shield cricket moving forward with a priority of focusing on young players.

CA must be calling the shots behind the scenes. Either way that pretty much rules out any chance Maxwell (32yo) has of a test recall.

Stupidity. What's the bet that WA won't do the same for Marsh who is 37yo.

Yeah that's a weird one that is. Finch fair enough but Maxwell?

I guess we can look forward to seeing the stunningly good young talent coming through like J.Edwards and J.Sangha as they average the gargantuan scores of 15 with the bat.

 

[The True King]

Yeah that's a weird one that is. Finch fair enough but Maxwell?

I guess we can look forward to seeing the stunningly good young talent coming through like J.Edwards and J.Sangha as they average the gargantuan scores of 15 with the bat.

It's strange because Boland is only 6months younger than Maxwell but he's been retained.

On top of that you would think Buck Rogers would know better than most that you can still get picked for Australia in your 30s. My guess is that the coach had no say in it.

Very strange.

 

[Sproj]

You know what, I'm watching the Big Bash and it re-affirms to me that Inglis is a future test player because he plays such good traditional shots and has such good footwork. I wouldn't be against this side moving forward given Maxwell isn't going to happen rightly or wrongly.

1. Warner
2. Pucovski
3. Labushagne
4. Smith (c)
5. Green
6. Head
7. Inglis (wk)
8. Richardson (He has to come in no matter what)
9. Cummins
10. Lyon
11. Hazlewood

 

[Sproj]

And I am really hoping Phillipe comes on as a batsman because he has all the ingredients as a Steve Smith clone in so many ways.