Boyd can fire for Broncos at wing or centre: Hodges

rnabokov

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Why we now have a genuine 7 and not a hooker playing out of position
That's not really the issue. And in hindsight I will cut Isaako some slack here as others have pointed out. The issue is the abysmal defensive structure, or utter lack of it, out wide, particularly on the right edge. The SF v Eels is a classic case among many. There was no cohesive, sliding line with each attacker marked by a defender. What line there was was broken and staggered leaving space for the attack to exploit. Too often attackers outnumbered defenders. We stood flat footed and moved sideways and not up in defence to pressure the ball runner ... WTF?

Then there were 2 defenders on 1 ball carrier leaving a free corridor for an unmarked support. What a fucking disgrace, and the Eels just smashed us as any side would have. On one occasion Isaako had 3 runners to mark. Bloody hell (even though his positioning was crap - OUT of the line either too forward or too far back.)

THIS is what Seibold has to address this preseason and in hindsight I am disappointed he failed to deal with our defensive dog's breakfast out wide this year. especially on the right side.

Boyd on the wing or centre? Irrelevant given the above. Croft? Great! However fix the defence or Croft's presence will be irrelevant.
 
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BroncsFan

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That's not really the issue. And in hindsight I will cut Isaako some slack here as others have pointed out. The issue is the abysmal defensive structure, or utter lack of it, out wide, particularly on the right edge. The SF v Eels is a classic case among many. There was no cohesive, sliding line with each attacker marked by a defender. What line there was was broken and staggered leaving space for the attack to exploit. Too often attackers outnumbered defenders. We stood flat footed and moved sideways and not up in defence to pressure the ball runner ... WTF?

Then there were 2 defenders on 1 ball carrier leaving a free corridor for an unmarked support. What a fucking disgrace, and the Eels just smashed us as any side would have. On one occasion Isaako had 3 runners to mark. Bloody hell (even though his positioning was crap - OUT of the line either too forward or too far back.)

THIS is what Seibold has to address this preseason and in hindsight I am disappointed he failed to deal with our defensive dog's breakfast out wide this year. especially on the right side.

Boyd on the wing or centre? Irrelevant given the above. Croft? Great! However fix the defence or Croft's presence will be irrelevant.
I feel like Seibold turned up last year ready to implement an attacking philosophy only to realise that none of these guys actually knew how to play in a style he was expecting (wrestling defense, winning the ruck, quick play the balls, etc.)

So rather than being able to focus on our disjointed attack he had to pivot and teach these guys how to actually play the game... and as bad as our defence was this year just remember that we actually conceded more points in 2018 than 2019.

From that point it was basically rip the band aid off, keep the young guys who are willing and able to adapt and start implementing the philosophies that is known to work in the current league environment.

I am willing to see it out because what Seibold and the board are trying to implement is known to be successful because it's what the storm and roosters do and they have been the most successful clubs of the last decade.

The only thing I'm unsure of is whether Seibold, and Parker for that matter, are able to get the defense playing like modern football.

The attacking talent is there but defense wins championships
 

Kyall

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I feel like Seibold turned up last year ready to implement an attacking philosophy only to realise that none of these guys actually knew how to play in a style he was expecting (wrestling defense, winning the ruck, quick play the balls, etc.)

So rather than being able to focus on our disjointed attack he had to pivot and teach these guys how to actually play the game... and as bad as our defence was this year just remember that we actually conceded more points in 2018 than 2019.

From that point it was basically rip the band aid off, keep the young guys who are willing and able to adapt and start implementing the philosophies that is known to work in the current league environment.

I am willing to see it out because what Seibold and the board are trying to implement is known to be successful because it's what the storm and roosters do and they have been the most successful clubs of the last decade.

The only thing I'm unsure of is whether Seibold, and Parker for that matter, are able to get the defense playing like modern football.

The attacking talent is there but defense wins championships
Siebold also had the fastest hooker in the game and Alex Johnson at fullback who could push for top 5 fastest in the NRL.
Seibold had nothing to work with, he had Macca probably the slowest hooker in the NRL and busted slow Boyd.
 

Gaz

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Thing is Boyd is contracted and we have to pay him not play him and if he proves to be a liability in 2020 we shouldn't.
 

rnabokov

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I feel like Seibold turned up last year ready to implement an attacking philosophy only to realise that none of these guys actually knew how to play in a style he was expecting (wrestling defense, winning the ruck, quick play the balls, etc.)

So rather than being able to focus on our disjointed attack he had to pivot and teach these guys how to actually play the game... and as bad as our defence was this year just remember that we actually conceded more points in 2018 than 2019.

From that point it was basically rip the band aid off, keep the young guys who are willing and able to adapt and start implementing the philosophies that is known to work in the current league environment.

I am willing to see it out because what Seibold and the board are trying to implement is known to be successful because it's what the storm and roosters do and they have been the most successful clubs of the last decade.

The only thing I'm unsure of is whether Seibold, and Parker for that matter, are able to get the defense playing like modern football.

The attacking talent is there but defense wins championships
I am unsure of the point you are trying to make in reply to my post.

My point is that our defence out wide, particularly on the right side, was rubbish, and that the job of a coach is to sort it out once the problems become apparent, and that is in any one match. That is, if the defence is crap in any particular game, you deal with it at the next, and subsequent coaching sessions until it is sorted. On this score, Seibold failed, and the players in question failed him.

A basic sliding defence is not rocket science. It's irrelevant that say Turps was a hooker playing out of position. It is schoolboy footballing nous to know how to slide and how to be part of a sliding defensive structure, and, it is the coach's job to make sure highly paid professionals earn their money in such simple matters as an effective sliding defence that ought to have been part and parcel of a footballer's basic skills development since school boy days.

I just don't buy the argument that ... "oh, he was playing out of position" to explain fundamental, simple, schoolboy level defensive deficiencies.

Yes, defence wins matches and we lost so many games because our defence was crap, separate to our shitty attack. For me, it is also less important to look at points conceded than to look at how many times our defence was breached because of poor structures and individual performances.

It was and is up to the coach to fix this ASAP.
 

Marty Deutschmann

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I am unsure of the point you are trying to make in reply to my post.

My point is that our defence out wide, particularly on the right side, was rubbish, and that the job of a coach is to sort it out once the problems become apparent, and that is in any one match. That is, if the defence is crap in any particular game, you deal with it at the next, and subsequent coaching sessions until it is sorted. On this score, Seibold failed, and the players in question failed him.

A basic sliding defence is not rocket science. It's irrelevant that say Turps was a hooker playing out of position. It is schoolboy footballing nous to know how to slide and how to be part of a sliding defensive structure, and, it is the coach's job to make sure highly paid professionals earn their money in such simple matters as an effective sliding defence that ought to have been part and parcel of a footballer's basic skills development since school boy days.

I just don't buy the argument that ... "oh, he was playing out of position" to explain fundamental, simple, schoolboy level defensive deficiencies.

Yes, defence wins matches and we lost so many games because our defence was crap, separate to our shitty attack. For me, it is also less important to look at points conceded than to look at how many times our defence was breached because of poor structures and individual performances.

It was and is up to the coach to fix this ASAP.
He's a hooker playing at 7 so his reads, experience and timing are off.

You say it is school boy nous, but this isn't school boy is it.. it's the NRL.

Players have specialised skill speed and power.

You can't be expected to win or even be competitive if they're unseasoned
 

rnabokov

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He's a hooker playing at 7 so his reads, experience and timing are off.

You say it is school boy nous, but this isn't school boy is it.. it's the NRL.

Players have specialised skill speed and power.

You can't be expected to win or even be competitive if they're unseasoned
Can't agree. You seem to be complicating something deceptively simple. Slide defence at its most basic: you stand in a line with your co-defenders; you mark up on an opposite; you move as one in the line; you move up as you side. Who cares if you are a hooker or a halfback. This is basic rugby league 101, whether school boy or NRL
 

Marty Deutschmann

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Can't agree. You seem to be complicating something deceptively simple. Slide defence at its most basic: you stand in a line with your co-defenders; you mark up on an opposite; you move as one in the line; you move up as you side. Who cares if you are a hooker or a halfback. This is basic rugby league 101, whether school boy or NRL
If it was that easy, no team would ever score a try.

"Over complicating" the NRL. cause it's that simple to play the game anyone could be the next immortal
 

rnabokov

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If it was that easy, no team would ever score a try.

"Over complicating" the NRL. cause it's that simple to play the game anyone could be the next immortal
It is that easy - to be part of, and keep a basic defensive formation, which is where we failed out wide.

Individual differences in both attack and defence need to be factored in. Defending Tedesco is of course something that is really hard, and there is no shame in being beaten by his amazing footwork and speed.

There is shame in not keeping a basic formation which will in most cases cut down attacking opportunities, like making it harder for say Teddy to show his skills.

As I see it, keeping to the structure, maintaining the defensive line, is integral to reducing the space and time for the attack. Our failure to do this created gaps which let the attack have ample time to set a play which simply let the ball carrier stroll through the hole(s) and in doing so, pressured defenders to mark up on more than one support runner. Just watch some of the tries the Eels scored out wide on our right edge ... ugh!
 
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Viti

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It is that easy - to be part of, and keep a basic defensive formation, which is where we failed out wide.

Individual differences in both attack and defence need to be factored in. Defending Tedesco is of course something that is really hard, and there is no shame in being beaten by his amazing footwork and speed.

There is shame in not keeping a basic formation which will in most cases cut down attacking opportunities, like making it harder for say Teddy to show his skills.

As I see it, keeping to the structure, maintaining the defensive line, is integral to reducing the space and time for the attack. Our failure to do this created gaps which let the attack have ample time to set a play which simply let the ball carrier stroll through the hole(s) and in doing so, pressured defenders to mark up on more than one support runner. Just watch some of the tries the Eels scored out wide on our right edge ... ugh!
You can have the correct formations and structures in place but at the end of the day defending on an edge hinges on your decision making.
 

rnabokov

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You can have the correct formations and structures in place but at the end of the day defending on an edge hinges on your decision making.
Again, maybe I am more naive than Isaako, however the only decision you and your fellow defenders have to make is not to leave a runner unmarked. This is not rocket science
 
not if Isaako is switched to fullback ... which i'm still not convinced of ...

If Milf is going back to 6 then I would moved Bird to the back, Boyd at center, if and only if Farnworth is not ready for full time NRL yet
I would give bird a run at fullback as well but would need to get some kilometres under his belt by seasons beginning.
 

Viti

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Again, maybe I am more naive than Isaako, however the only decision you and your fellow defenders have to make is not to leave a runner unmarked. This is not rocket science
If people were running in straight lines up and down the field this would be the case.
But teams don’t do that, they design plays to isolate defenders and force them to make decisions.

Isaako’s defensive decisions are often (not always) a product of the people inside him.
 

rnabokov

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If people were running in straight lines up and down the field this would be the case.
But teams don’t do that, they design plays to isolate defenders and force them to make decisions.

Isaako’s defensive decisions are often (not always) a product of the people inside him.
The problem is the lack of any cohesive line based on communication and technique which largely accounts for poor decision making. There are a finite number of plays to isolate defenders. Good coaching deals with this. Look at any of the best defences and they deal with all the shapes thrown at them without players having degrees in 3 dimensional geometry. and decision theory. Of course there will be mistakes but they are not the norm as was the case with our right edge.

Anyway, our edge defence needs to be fixed, and getting the line in place and working is the 1st step. Also, as far as I am concerned, the only place for Boyd is out wide. In fact as wide as possible, ideally in the stands.
 

kooly87

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The problem is the lack of any cohesive line based on communication and technique which largely accounts for poor decision making. There are a finite number of plays to isolate defenders. Good coaching deals with this. Look at any of the best defences and they deal with all the shapes thrown at them without players having degrees in 3 dimensional geometry. and decision theory. Of course there will be mistakes but they are not the norm as was the case with our right edge.

Anyway, our edge defence needs to be fixed, and getting the line in place and working is the 1st step. Also, as far as I am concerned, the only place for Boyd is out wide. In fact as wide as possible, ideally in the stands.
It's no secret that sides with well developed combinations and lots of experience playing together on their edges tend to defend well out wide.

The fact we've had a revolving door of Halves, Edge Backrowers and Centres last season, really does make forming these combinations difficult, and I think that lack of experience and understanding definitely compounded our problems. We also happened to have both our Wingers also have their worst seasons ever at the same time too, so I think our edge defence never really had a chance last year.

Hopefully with a full preseason together, as well as players being back in more familiar roles, we should see a significant improvement in this area for 2020.
 

Marty Deutschmann

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It's no secret that sides with well developed combinations and lots of experience playing together on their edges tend to defend well out wide.

The fact we've had a revolving door of Halves, Edge Backrowers and Centres last season, really does make forming these combinations difficult, and I think that lack of experience and understanding definitely compounded our problems. We also happened to have both our Wingers also have their worst seasons ever at the same time too, so I think our edge defence never really had a chance last year.

Hopefully with a full preseason together, as well as players being back in more familiar roles, we should see a significant improvement in this area for 2020.
Exactly
 

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