Well I've put money on it, yes only 50 bucks but still a little confidence in them. I think the Siebs factor has influenced me.
NEWS Brisbane hire Matty Johns to help end their premiership drought
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CaptainHook
NRL Player
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Fair call that. I think only but the most rusted on Storm fans only really count those years as well as the coach and players themselves. It's not like we can pretend those years didn't exist though.
Great post. I suspect it's due to ignorance. The Raiders cheating, for instance, I only just recently learned about. Had no idea, tbh.
Also, it's funny but I always thought the Melbourne Storm deserved salary cap concessions. They did get them in a roundabout way.
Tom
State of Origin Rep
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As someone who has spent a fair bit of time in Victoria something I noticed is the Storm have very few fanatical supporters at all. Their fanbase down there consists of people who primarily watch AFL and also "like" the Storm. They don't even realise they are a bunch of grubs and if you try to tell them why or bring up their shitty wrestling tactics you are met with blank stares followed by the obligatory "everyone's just mad because a team from Melbourne keeps winning". Their knowledge of the game amounts to what the channel 9 telecast tells them and they also don't see what the big deal with cheating the cap is and believe those premierships should be reinstated. Oh and it was also ridiculous that Slater should go before the judiciary for a shoulder charge.
Actually no. If you had read several of my recent posts you'd have seen I have been convinced by the solid arguments some posters had put forward about the wisdom of moving WB on. I had been a little blind to one of WBs failings with regard to team performance, namely the poor defence of the past two years. Everything Siebs has done points to a better defensive effort in the future and given that the team has points in them already I am expecting a more rounded team. That's why I punted on that change. Had WB stayed I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have that same confidence.
GCBRONCO
State of Origin Captain
How the Raiders cheated to win the premiership
By KEITH GOSMAN, ALAN CLARKSON and PETER KOGOY
27/07/1991
The Sun Herald
THE debt-ridden Canberra Raiders lurched into another crisis yesterday following revelations that the Australian Securities Commission is mounting a full scale inquiry into the two-time premiers.
The besieged Raiders are also reeling from allegations they won last year's grand final by rorting the League's salary cap system.
Rival club officials have slammed the Raiders for "cheating" to win the 1990 premiership and have demanded the NSW Rugby League take strong action.
League boss John Quayle said yesterday Canberra were $100,000 over the salary cap last year.
A Sun-Herald investigation has confirmed the Raiders are up to $500,000 over their salary cap in order to keep international stars such as Australian captain Mal Meninga, five-eighth Laurie Daley and dynamic lock Bradley Clyde.
The investigations revealed one player's wife was on the Raider group's payroll to the tune of $40,000 a year while some employees picked up pay cheques but never turned up for work.
Also, more than $700,000 in retirement funds are in jeopardy with former star players such as long-term stalwart Chris O'Sullivan alone being owed$160,000.
Earlier this month, the NSWRL had to bail out the Raiders with a $300,000 advance because of a shortfall in the $670,000 due to players.
Australian Securities Commission (ASC) Canberra boss Les Pascoe confirmed yesterday the commission was "looking at the whole group" following the stunning revelations the dual premiers were more than $6 million in the red -despite being backed by two leagues clubs and two discos.
Pascoe said the investigation, which would be forwarded to ASC chairman Tony Hartnell, would be specifically targeting the Raiders Leagues Club in the Canberra suburb of Mawson.
"That is a matter we are about the have a look at ... the circumstances of payments within that club," he said.
"Our main interest at first was what was happening with the clubs when they were getting all the publicity but as a consequence of those inquiries one or two other matters did come to light which we will be following up.
"And one of those matters concerns the Mawson Club and the nature of its financial arrangements."
Pascoe said the ASC would also be investigating the corporate make-up of the various segments of the Raiders group which was controlled by the little known Queanbeyan United Football Club.
This club has been described by former Raiders marketing manager Des Byrne as a "funny organisation".
Queanbeyan United, in turn, controls the huge Queanbeyan Leagues Club (QLC)which made a $1.6 million profit last year, as well as the Canberra District Rugby League Football Club (the Raiders team) and Mawson club which both made heavy losses.
The group poured $2 million alone into the disastrous Raiders Nightclub at the QLC and splashed out $400,000 for the former Dutch Club which adjoined the Mawson Leagues Club.
It is this complex corporate structure and its accumulated losses which have stirred the interest of the ASC and has the league world buzzing with the question: "Where did the money go?"
The ASC will also investigate whether the group's elaborate structure was used to disguise player payments to avoid the salary cap and minimise tax.
Byrne confirmed the club got around the cap "because they set up a lot of schemes for player payments which were set up for tax purposes rather than to save the club money".
"The club still paid the dough," Byrne said.
"I had a couple of staff that never rolled up even though they were on the wages ... that was organised for tax purposes.
"By the time I eventually left in Febuary there were a lot of rotten apples around.
"They knew what was going on down there. They were playing with a community asset which was important to people," he said.
CANBERRA'S rivals are incensed about the salary cap revelations. In order to buy a premiership, the Raiders have shelled out up to $500,000 over their cap - which came into force at the start of 1990 - to keep their star players
* Skipper Mal Meninga earned $215,000 a year.
* Laurie Daley signed a new three-year deal in September, 1990, which is understood to net the youngster from the railway town of Junee a cool$500,000.
* Fullback Gary Belcher signed a three-year deal in June, 1989, which ties him to the Raiders until the end of 1992 and is said to be worth more than$150,000 a year.
* Bradley Clyde signed a two-year deal in July, 1989, which is estimated to be worth $200,000.
* Another player on this sort of money is bullocking prop Glenn Lazarus.
* Quality halfback Ricky Stuart signed a new two-year deal in September, 1990, and is estimated to earn close to $200,000 a year.
"Ricky isn't showing any undue alarm about the club's financial worries," a spokesman for Stuart's management said.
"We understand what monies he is owed by the club have been guaranteed by the bank.
"But if the club doesn't meet its obligations then Ricky's contract becomes null and void and he automatically becomes a free agent.
"But at this stage he is satisfied in his own mind that the club would meet its obligations."
Whether Canberra meet these obligations or not, the other clubs want action, most believing the Raiders may not have won the 1990 final without treating the salary cap with disdain.
One hard-hitting chief executive, Brisbane's JOHN RIBOT likened Canberra's overpayments to an athlete taking steroids.
"It gives them an unfair advantage," Ribot said.
"If the reported excess is correct, it makes it very unfair for the other clubs.
"One of the major problems if a team overspends by a substantial amount is that it makes it extremely difficult for the others.
"Players talk among themselves and payments like those mentioned provide them with a yardstick to put pressure on their own clubs for increased payments.
"As far as the League is concerned this is very damaging."
GEOFF CARR (St George): "It brings home very forcibly to all the clubs what can happen if they surrender to the temptation to do what Canberra is alleged to have done.
"If every club acted like that, the premiership competition would be cut down to eight teams in next to no time.
"I will be very surprised if Canberra's salary cap is not pruned.
"Every club is well aware if they breach the salary cap they will be penalised.
"South Sydney and Illawarra have been forced to take their medicine and they did it and those clubs will show the benefits of their far-sighted approach in the future."
BOB MILLWARD (Illawarra): "We came into the competition the same time as Canberra and they have been able to do things we could not do.
"Illawarra's credibility has increased and I am sad to say Canberra's has been tarnished.
"I would find it very difficult to stand up before my board and attempt to explain why Canberra's salary cap would not be cut to the minimum in view of the circumstances.
"I admired the way Canberra signed up some class players but now we find they overstepped the payment schedule.
"A lot of clubs have toughed it out - now it is Canberra's turn."
PETER MOORE (Canterbury): "If a club oversteps the salary cap by several hundred thousand dollars, they obviously have no respect for the system.
"It becomes grossly unfair for those clubs who abide by the rules and do the right thing."
KEITH BARNES (Balmain): "It is terribly disappointing when a club is reported to have overstepped the salary cap by such a margin.
"Rules are rules and everyone should attempt to abide by what is set out by the League."
MIKE ARMSTRONG (Newcastle): "It is obviously an area of concern that the high cost of putting a team on the field has forced this position on them.
"Newcastle has not been in the position of being able to offer top money for players.
"The effect of a club overstepping the salary cap by a substantial amount is horrendous because it forces a club into a higher bracket of payments.
"The cake does not get bigger, it is simply shared differently.
"I agree with the salary cap and the draft which has helped give us the best ever competition.
"We have to guard against the booming costs of putting a premiership winning team on to the field does not get out of hand."
RON MASSEY (Cronulla): "Canberra have done so much on the paddock they do not deserve to go down the drain.
"In situations like this I suggest that those without guilt should throw the first stone.
"Obviously this matter has to be left to the NSW Rugby League to sort out.
"Everyone has to look to themselves to make sure they have not flouted the salary cap rules."
LEAGUE media commentators have also joined in the attack on the premiers.
GREG HARTLEY (SunHerald/2KY): "Canberra cheated the system. They thought they could get away with it.
"Putting it in simple terms, Canberra's bad management has got them in the strife they now find themselves and should be made to pay the penalty.
"It's as simple as that. It is a tragedy they could have easily been averted had the Raiders had proper management in place.
"It proves yet again that you need people with business sense running football clubs. No club can afford to lose the likes of a Bradley Clyde."
JON HARKER (2GB): "Canberra have blown the salary cap out the window. They've treated the cap as a joke.
"I find it obscene that the Raiders are going to the people of the area cap in hand asking supporters to save them.
"Why should rank-and-file supporters put up money when the Raiders are something like $6million is debt?"
Harker said Penrith was entitled to ask serious questions about the manner in which Canberra went about winning the last premiership.
DAVID LORD (2BL): "Canberra should be ashamed of the way they've run their affairs.
"The Raiders are one team in the competition who didn't have to resort to breaking the salary cap rules. They simply didn't have to do it.
"The sad part about all this is that they are in real danger of losing players who helped them win back-to-back premierships.
"The game also loses clout when a club blatantly rorts the rules."
JOHN GIBBS (2UE): "The Raiders didn't play by the rules. The people I feel sorry for are the players.
"The club making an appeal to the masses to keep their stars in Canberra simply galls me. They wouldn't be in strife had they played a straight bat.
"It does look like they will lose the likes of a (Brad) Clyde, (Mal)Meninga, (Steve) Walters and if that happens the joint is in real trouble."
PETER PETERS (SunHerald/2KY): "No amount of money can win you a premiership if you haven't got the players, the coach and the desire to win. Money is secondary even though it's a professional game. I think the who salary cap is wrong. But if there hadn't been one heaven knows how far Canberra would have gone."
By KEITH GOSMAN, ALAN CLARKSON and PETER KOGOY
27/07/1991
The Sun Herald
THE debt-ridden Canberra Raiders lurched into another crisis yesterday following revelations that the Australian Securities Commission is mounting a full scale inquiry into the two-time premiers.
The besieged Raiders are also reeling from allegations they won last year's grand final by rorting the League's salary cap system.
Rival club officials have slammed the Raiders for "cheating" to win the 1990 premiership and have demanded the NSW Rugby League take strong action.
League boss John Quayle said yesterday Canberra were $100,000 over the salary cap last year.
A Sun-Herald investigation has confirmed the Raiders are up to $500,000 over their salary cap in order to keep international stars such as Australian captain Mal Meninga, five-eighth Laurie Daley and dynamic lock Bradley Clyde.
The investigations revealed one player's wife was on the Raider group's payroll to the tune of $40,000 a year while some employees picked up pay cheques but never turned up for work.
Also, more than $700,000 in retirement funds are in jeopardy with former star players such as long-term stalwart Chris O'Sullivan alone being owed$160,000.
Earlier this month, the NSWRL had to bail out the Raiders with a $300,000 advance because of a shortfall in the $670,000 due to players.
Australian Securities Commission (ASC) Canberra boss Les Pascoe confirmed yesterday the commission was "looking at the whole group" following the stunning revelations the dual premiers were more than $6 million in the red -despite being backed by two leagues clubs and two discos.
Pascoe said the investigation, which would be forwarded to ASC chairman Tony Hartnell, would be specifically targeting the Raiders Leagues Club in the Canberra suburb of Mawson.
"That is a matter we are about the have a look at ... the circumstances of payments within that club," he said.
"Our main interest at first was what was happening with the clubs when they were getting all the publicity but as a consequence of those inquiries one or two other matters did come to light which we will be following up.
"And one of those matters concerns the Mawson Club and the nature of its financial arrangements."
Pascoe said the ASC would also be investigating the corporate make-up of the various segments of the Raiders group which was controlled by the little known Queanbeyan United Football Club.
This club has been described by former Raiders marketing manager Des Byrne as a "funny organisation".
Queanbeyan United, in turn, controls the huge Queanbeyan Leagues Club (QLC)which made a $1.6 million profit last year, as well as the Canberra District Rugby League Football Club (the Raiders team) and Mawson club which both made heavy losses.
The group poured $2 million alone into the disastrous Raiders Nightclub at the QLC and splashed out $400,000 for the former Dutch Club which adjoined the Mawson Leagues Club.
It is this complex corporate structure and its accumulated losses which have stirred the interest of the ASC and has the league world buzzing with the question: "Where did the money go?"
The ASC will also investigate whether the group's elaborate structure was used to disguise player payments to avoid the salary cap and minimise tax.
Byrne confirmed the club got around the cap "because they set up a lot of schemes for player payments which were set up for tax purposes rather than to save the club money".
"The club still paid the dough," Byrne said.
"I had a couple of staff that never rolled up even though they were on the wages ... that was organised for tax purposes.
"By the time I eventually left in Febuary there were a lot of rotten apples around.
"They knew what was going on down there. They were playing with a community asset which was important to people," he said.
CANBERRA'S rivals are incensed about the salary cap revelations. In order to buy a premiership, the Raiders have shelled out up to $500,000 over their cap - which came into force at the start of 1990 - to keep their star players
* Skipper Mal Meninga earned $215,000 a year.
* Laurie Daley signed a new three-year deal in September, 1990, which is understood to net the youngster from the railway town of Junee a cool$500,000.
* Fullback Gary Belcher signed a three-year deal in June, 1989, which ties him to the Raiders until the end of 1992 and is said to be worth more than$150,000 a year.
* Bradley Clyde signed a two-year deal in July, 1989, which is estimated to be worth $200,000.
* Another player on this sort of money is bullocking prop Glenn Lazarus.
* Quality halfback Ricky Stuart signed a new two-year deal in September, 1990, and is estimated to earn close to $200,000 a year.
"Ricky isn't showing any undue alarm about the club's financial worries," a spokesman for Stuart's management said.
"We understand what monies he is owed by the club have been guaranteed by the bank.
"But if the club doesn't meet its obligations then Ricky's contract becomes null and void and he automatically becomes a free agent.
"But at this stage he is satisfied in his own mind that the club would meet its obligations."
Whether Canberra meet these obligations or not, the other clubs want action, most believing the Raiders may not have won the 1990 final without treating the salary cap with disdain.
One hard-hitting chief executive, Brisbane's JOHN RIBOT likened Canberra's overpayments to an athlete taking steroids.
"It gives them an unfair advantage," Ribot said.
"If the reported excess is correct, it makes it very unfair for the other clubs.
"One of the major problems if a team overspends by a substantial amount is that it makes it extremely difficult for the others.
"Players talk among themselves and payments like those mentioned provide them with a yardstick to put pressure on their own clubs for increased payments.
"As far as the League is concerned this is very damaging."
GEOFF CARR (St George): "It brings home very forcibly to all the clubs what can happen if they surrender to the temptation to do what Canberra is alleged to have done.
"If every club acted like that, the premiership competition would be cut down to eight teams in next to no time.
"I will be very surprised if Canberra's salary cap is not pruned.
"Every club is well aware if they breach the salary cap they will be penalised.
"South Sydney and Illawarra have been forced to take their medicine and they did it and those clubs will show the benefits of their far-sighted approach in the future."
BOB MILLWARD (Illawarra): "We came into the competition the same time as Canberra and they have been able to do things we could not do.
"Illawarra's credibility has increased and I am sad to say Canberra's has been tarnished.
"I would find it very difficult to stand up before my board and attempt to explain why Canberra's salary cap would not be cut to the minimum in view of the circumstances.
"I admired the way Canberra signed up some class players but now we find they overstepped the payment schedule.
"A lot of clubs have toughed it out - now it is Canberra's turn."
PETER MOORE (Canterbury): "If a club oversteps the salary cap by several hundred thousand dollars, they obviously have no respect for the system.
"It becomes grossly unfair for those clubs who abide by the rules and do the right thing."
KEITH BARNES (Balmain): "It is terribly disappointing when a club is reported to have overstepped the salary cap by such a margin.
"Rules are rules and everyone should attempt to abide by what is set out by the League."
MIKE ARMSTRONG (Newcastle): "It is obviously an area of concern that the high cost of putting a team on the field has forced this position on them.
"Newcastle has not been in the position of being able to offer top money for players.
"The effect of a club overstepping the salary cap by a substantial amount is horrendous because it forces a club into a higher bracket of payments.
"The cake does not get bigger, it is simply shared differently.
"I agree with the salary cap and the draft which has helped give us the best ever competition.
"We have to guard against the booming costs of putting a premiership winning team on to the field does not get out of hand."
RON MASSEY (Cronulla): "Canberra have done so much on the paddock they do not deserve to go down the drain.
"In situations like this I suggest that those without guilt should throw the first stone.
"Obviously this matter has to be left to the NSW Rugby League to sort out.
"Everyone has to look to themselves to make sure they have not flouted the salary cap rules."
LEAGUE media commentators have also joined in the attack on the premiers.
GREG HARTLEY (SunHerald/2KY): "Canberra cheated the system. They thought they could get away with it.
"Putting it in simple terms, Canberra's bad management has got them in the strife they now find themselves and should be made to pay the penalty.
"It's as simple as that. It is a tragedy they could have easily been averted had the Raiders had proper management in place.
"It proves yet again that you need people with business sense running football clubs. No club can afford to lose the likes of a Bradley Clyde."
JON HARKER (2GB): "Canberra have blown the salary cap out the window. They've treated the cap as a joke.
"I find it obscene that the Raiders are going to the people of the area cap in hand asking supporters to save them.
"Why should rank-and-file supporters put up money when the Raiders are something like $6million is debt?"
Harker said Penrith was entitled to ask serious questions about the manner in which Canberra went about winning the last premiership.
DAVID LORD (2BL): "Canberra should be ashamed of the way they've run their affairs.
"The Raiders are one team in the competition who didn't have to resort to breaking the salary cap rules. They simply didn't have to do it.
"The sad part about all this is that they are in real danger of losing players who helped them win back-to-back premierships.
"The game also loses clout when a club blatantly rorts the rules."
JOHN GIBBS (2UE): "The Raiders didn't play by the rules. The people I feel sorry for are the players.
"The club making an appeal to the masses to keep their stars in Canberra simply galls me. They wouldn't be in strife had they played a straight bat.
"It does look like they will lose the likes of a (Brad) Clyde, (Mal)Meninga, (Steve) Walters and if that happens the joint is in real trouble."
PETER PETERS (SunHerald/2KY): "No amount of money can win you a premiership if you haven't got the players, the coach and the desire to win. Money is secondary even though it's a professional game. I think the who salary cap is wrong. But if there hadn't been one heaven knows how far Canberra would have gone."
- 15,100
- 7,802
- Staff
- #49
As someone who lived in Melbourne for years, I’m not sure a lot of that is fair. Every club has its idiot supporters and the Storm have not offered a lot legitimately to the NRL but they have some fantastic supporters and very fair minded ones as well.
Every time I went to a Storm game (and I unfortunately went to a lot but fortunately one I did go to - the Broncos stonewall effort in ‘15) I had a great time with most of the supporters in the surrounding seats.
You do get a few AFL supporting ring ins but that isn’t a bad thing, they are fairly well supported at most games.
- 15,100
- 7,802
- Staff
- #50
As someone who lived in Melbourne for years, I’m not sure a lot of that is fair. Every club has its idiot supporters and the Storm have not offered a lot legitimately to the NRL but they have some fantastic supporters and very fair minded ones as well.
Every time I went to a Storm game (and I unfortunately went to a lot but fortunately one I did go to - the Broncos stonewall effort in ‘15) I had a great time with most of the supporters in the surrounding seats.
You do get a few AFL supporting ring ins but that isn’t a bad thing, they are fairly well supported at most games.
Jedhead
NRL Player
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I read you the first time :-)
Tom
State of Origin Rep
- 6,613
- 5,696
Well, yeah. I'm sure it's alot easier to find them at the stadium on game day.
- Staff
- #53
I'm almost certain his name is *supposed* to be pronounced Sigh-bold.
Last edited:
Clever ha ha...drank a litre of bundy last night, not sure how many nights like that I have left. Even blowing .08 just now and feeling seedy I can appreciate this post.
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