- Thread starter
- #127
Premierships don't change your mind about they will never have success? Do they need to end hunger?
Coaching
- Thread starter 1910
- Start date
Premierships don't change your mind about they will never have success? Do they need to end hunger?
i think you are making a bigger issue out of this than need be.
im pretty certain they didnt go through the regular year undefeated so that defeats that point.
- Thread starter
- #129
Let's not be pedantic now. They lost three games all year I don't think saying they were thought of as unbeatable is stretching it too far.
hahahaha, did you think they were unbeatable? did the walkers think that? plzzzzzz.
- Jan 25, 2013
- 25,780
- 30,206
An ISC premiership is absolutely irrelevant to my argument. It was in march, it is now. Thankfully for me the Walker brothers will need to convince an NRL club that they and their popped collars are the goods. And even then it'll take 3 or 4 years to build a roster that reflects their style. So I have plenty of time to write a formal apology to you.
- Thread starter
- #132
- Thread starter
- #135
- Thread starter
- #136
The only players that came from other ISC clubs were Marmin, Phillips, Griffin and Lander; the Jets still won't have a huge budget although this year might help. They will go to the IRL again and take local guys. Nem, Seage, Capewell x2, Lingwoodock, Martin, Parcell, Husky, Cleeland, Pandia, Hayes and Anderson all local IRL players or IGS.
McConnachie was playing at a Murrie Carnival.
It's an overlooked part of their win taking local players and beating teams worth 10 times more with 600 NRL games and Origins.
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- Apr 9, 2012
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Pride...Tigers ...Hunters....BlackHawks
point is, the defence in the ISC isn't anywhere near up to NRL standard
.....and to insinuate the Hawks are a NRL side is ridiculous.
I wish the Walker boys well in their endeavours to reach the NRL.....it will be interesting to see how successful their game plan is against opposition teams who know how to tackle.
- Mar 7, 2008
- 13,620
- 10,547
The style will work at any level. Rugby league is simple game and if the Walkers have superior players playing their style they will be able to overcome the superior tacklers. It's all about time and fatigue. The Jets style is based on keeping the defence moving, right across the park and an NRL side would be just as vulnerable to that fatigue.
- Thread starter
- #139
Who said it was as good as the NRL? You would never expect semi professional players to produce something that full time professionals do. You do know what second best comp means don't you?
They're a full time professional team who are all Cowboys training every week with the Cows or played NRL, they're NRL players. Just like Toowoomba before them they're as close as a NRL not in the NRL. If they don't know how to tackle than Green has huge issues and the Cowboys.
Newcastle was all full time professional Knights players too.
The ability of the defence would go up true but so would the ability of the attack at the same time when you're dealing with full time professionals with more resources.
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- Thread starter
- #140
The Ipswich revolution is coming to an NRL club near you.
A breeding ground most famous for the Walters brothers and Allan Langer, Ipswich products are again set to flood the NRL with almost half of the team that started the State Championship final against Newcastle on grand final day now snapped up by NRL clubs.
“The Intrust Super Cup has been a bit of a hidden gem,” Channel Nine Intrust Super Cup commentator and former NRL great Scott Sattler said.
“There have been a lot of people that have known there have been talented rugby league players up here, but it has taken the strength of the Intrust Super Cup and winning two State Championships for people to sit up and take a lot of notice.
“It's great to see players moving down to NRL clubs, but it will be terrible to see if they end up playing in the NSW Cup which is a weaker competition than Intrust.
“And the best thing is they're not spring chickens. They're not guys that are 17 or 18 years of age. It's proving to a lot of rugby league players out there who have been told for many years that at 21 or 23 you're too old and that's not the case."
Back-rower Kurt Capewell was the latest signing, agreeing to join five-eighth Josh Cleeland at the Sharks with Matt Parcell, Rod Griffin, Billy McConnachie and Carlin Anderson also joining NRL clubs full-time when the pre-season begins in the coming weeks.
Parcell is the only member of the group to have played an NRL game to date having made his debut for the Broncos in Round 11 this year, while Griffin has played nine Tests for Papua New Guinea and trained with Brisbane last pre-season.
It's an astonishing endorsement of the playing style employed by the Walker brothers who must now embark on a new search for further players they can develop into first-graders.
NRL.com asked Sattler for his appraisal of the Jets ready to take off in 2016.
Matt Parcell (Sea Eagles)
Good judges have touted Parcell as a future Queensland No.9, but with Matt Ballin and Apisai Koroisau also at the club a spot in the Manly 17 for Round 1 is by no means guaranteed. Lightning quick out of dummy-half, Parcell scored a record five tries for Ipswich in their elimination final win over Easts and was Man of the Match in the Jets' State Championship win over Newcastle.
Sattler says: "What I love about Matty is his speed, his vision, his evasive skills and his engine. If the game went for a week he'd still be running at the same speed. I think he is quite potentially the next Origin hooker after Cameron Smith retires."
Rod Griffin (Wests Tigers)
Dubbed 'Rod the Bod', the hard-as-nails middle forward capable of playing 160 minutes if required, Griffin finally gets a shot in the NRL after a previous stint with the Tigers almost a decade ago. In the time since he has spent time with Wynnum Manly, Northern Pride, Tweed Heads and Ipswich in the Intrust Super Cup as well as representing his country of birth, Papua New Guinea, on nine occasions. Loves an offload and will be 29 by the time the NRL begins next season.
Sattler says: "The interchange rule has come at the perfect time for him. If the interchange rule went down to six this guy would be starting in an NRL team next year. His greatest capacity is to go for long periods of time and stay in the face of the defence. Yes, he's not 6-foot-3 like a lot of clubs want, but he'll still be churning out really big yards at the 78-minute mark."
Billy McConnachie (Wests Tigers)
The man they call 'Madness' was spotted by the Walker brothers playing in a Murri carnival in Ipswich three years ago and after a season disrupted by injury last year; got better and better the longer 2015 went on. A devastating runner of the football and bone-rattling defender, McConnachie left Mt Isa behind in search of an opportunity and will live with Griffin as the pair look to make their mark with the Tigers.
Sattler says: "Billy McConnachie reminds me of Martin Lang; his first run in the first set of the game is going to be the same intensity as the run in the last set of the game. He's a guy with what I like to call the 'Where is he?' factor. Ruben Wiki and Gorden Tallis had it; where is he in the defensive line or where is he about to run onto the ball? You're always looking for where those guys are because wherever those guys are, you don't want to be."
Josh Cleeland (Sharks)
In commentary during the State Championship final Panthers CEO Phil Gould intimated that the club was close to penning a deal with the Ipswich five-eighth, but the Sharks swept in with a better offer that will see the 24-year-old in the Shire for the next year at least. His path to first grade is currently blocked by James Maloney, Chad Townsend and Jack Bird but the leader for line-break assists and try assists in the Intrust Super Cup this season obviously has qualities that the Sharks coaching staff admire.
Sattler says: "Defensively outstanding, he adjusts in defence really, really well. If you've got a really dynamic No.6 or No.7 with a bit of spontaneity or flair, Josh Cleeland is the guy that will keep the whole team heading in the same direction. He's going to be a guy who if you have injuries or around Origin time will be a ready-made fix, a little bit like Sam Williams at Canberra."
Kurt Capewell (Sharks)
A towering centre who made a stunning transition to rangy back-rower in 2015, Capewell has signed a two-year deal at Cronulla after shunning interest to join the Broncos Under 20 system four years ago in order to develop his game against men in the Intrust Super Cup. Having now proven himself at the senior level with Ipswich, he is ready for the next step.
Sattler says: "When you talk about prototypes that a lot of NRL clubs are looking for, 6-foot-2, big rangy build, a really good change of direction, he can kick, he can pass, he's got all the tricks of the trade. It's just about him now getting into a system that thinks run before pass. He's got the perfect build to be a back-rower and I expect pretty big things from Kurt Capewell."
Carlin Anderson (Broncos)
He may have looked a bit shaky under the high ball during the State Championship final, but fullback Carlin Anderson possesses a freakish turn of foot and an innate ability to find the try-line. He scored one of the most extraordinary tries of the season in Week 1 of the Intrust Super Cup finals and joins the Broncos on a 12-month deal where his best chance of an NRL debut will be on the wing.
Sattler says: "He's an outstanding talent. He's got speed, he's got great intuition for such a young player and he's got a fantastic attitude by all accounts. Coming through at the same time as Cameron Munster, we're going to see a battle for the Queensland No.1 jersey between those two guys for a lot of years. Different styles, but equally as exciting. I think he's an amazing player and has got a big future if his attitude is as good as what everyone says it is."
*This first appeared on NRL.com.
A breeding ground most famous for the Walters brothers and Allan Langer, Ipswich products are again set to flood the NRL with almost half of the team that started the State Championship final against Newcastle on grand final day now snapped up by NRL clubs.
“The Intrust Super Cup has been a bit of a hidden gem,” Channel Nine Intrust Super Cup commentator and former NRL great Scott Sattler said.
“There have been a lot of people that have known there have been talented rugby league players up here, but it has taken the strength of the Intrust Super Cup and winning two State Championships for people to sit up and take a lot of notice.
“It's great to see players moving down to NRL clubs, but it will be terrible to see if they end up playing in the NSW Cup which is a weaker competition than Intrust.
“And the best thing is they're not spring chickens. They're not guys that are 17 or 18 years of age. It's proving to a lot of rugby league players out there who have been told for many years that at 21 or 23 you're too old and that's not the case."
Back-rower Kurt Capewell was the latest signing, agreeing to join five-eighth Josh Cleeland at the Sharks with Matt Parcell, Rod Griffin, Billy McConnachie and Carlin Anderson also joining NRL clubs full-time when the pre-season begins in the coming weeks.
Parcell is the only member of the group to have played an NRL game to date having made his debut for the Broncos in Round 11 this year, while Griffin has played nine Tests for Papua New Guinea and trained with Brisbane last pre-season.
It's an astonishing endorsement of the playing style employed by the Walker brothers who must now embark on a new search for further players they can develop into first-graders.
NRL.com asked Sattler for his appraisal of the Jets ready to take off in 2016.
Matt Parcell (Sea Eagles)
Good judges have touted Parcell as a future Queensland No.9, but with Matt Ballin and Apisai Koroisau also at the club a spot in the Manly 17 for Round 1 is by no means guaranteed. Lightning quick out of dummy-half, Parcell scored a record five tries for Ipswich in their elimination final win over Easts and was Man of the Match in the Jets' State Championship win over Newcastle.
Sattler says: "What I love about Matty is his speed, his vision, his evasive skills and his engine. If the game went for a week he'd still be running at the same speed. I think he is quite potentially the next Origin hooker after Cameron Smith retires."
Rod Griffin (Wests Tigers)
Dubbed 'Rod the Bod', the hard-as-nails middle forward capable of playing 160 minutes if required, Griffin finally gets a shot in the NRL after a previous stint with the Tigers almost a decade ago. In the time since he has spent time with Wynnum Manly, Northern Pride, Tweed Heads and Ipswich in the Intrust Super Cup as well as representing his country of birth, Papua New Guinea, on nine occasions. Loves an offload and will be 29 by the time the NRL begins next season.
Sattler says: "The interchange rule has come at the perfect time for him. If the interchange rule went down to six this guy would be starting in an NRL team next year. His greatest capacity is to go for long periods of time and stay in the face of the defence. Yes, he's not 6-foot-3 like a lot of clubs want, but he'll still be churning out really big yards at the 78-minute mark."
Billy McConnachie (Wests Tigers)
The man they call 'Madness' was spotted by the Walker brothers playing in a Murri carnival in Ipswich three years ago and after a season disrupted by injury last year; got better and better the longer 2015 went on. A devastating runner of the football and bone-rattling defender, McConnachie left Mt Isa behind in search of an opportunity and will live with Griffin as the pair look to make their mark with the Tigers.
Sattler says: "Billy McConnachie reminds me of Martin Lang; his first run in the first set of the game is going to be the same intensity as the run in the last set of the game. He's a guy with what I like to call the 'Where is he?' factor. Ruben Wiki and Gorden Tallis had it; where is he in the defensive line or where is he about to run onto the ball? You're always looking for where those guys are because wherever those guys are, you don't want to be."
Josh Cleeland (Sharks)
In commentary during the State Championship final Panthers CEO Phil Gould intimated that the club was close to penning a deal with the Ipswich five-eighth, but the Sharks swept in with a better offer that will see the 24-year-old in the Shire for the next year at least. His path to first grade is currently blocked by James Maloney, Chad Townsend and Jack Bird but the leader for line-break assists and try assists in the Intrust Super Cup this season obviously has qualities that the Sharks coaching staff admire.
Sattler says: "Defensively outstanding, he adjusts in defence really, really well. If you've got a really dynamic No.6 or No.7 with a bit of spontaneity or flair, Josh Cleeland is the guy that will keep the whole team heading in the same direction. He's going to be a guy who if you have injuries or around Origin time will be a ready-made fix, a little bit like Sam Williams at Canberra."
Kurt Capewell (Sharks)
A towering centre who made a stunning transition to rangy back-rower in 2015, Capewell has signed a two-year deal at Cronulla after shunning interest to join the Broncos Under 20 system four years ago in order to develop his game against men in the Intrust Super Cup. Having now proven himself at the senior level with Ipswich, he is ready for the next step.
Sattler says: "When you talk about prototypes that a lot of NRL clubs are looking for, 6-foot-2, big rangy build, a really good change of direction, he can kick, he can pass, he's got all the tricks of the trade. It's just about him now getting into a system that thinks run before pass. He's got the perfect build to be a back-rower and I expect pretty big things from Kurt Capewell."
Carlin Anderson (Broncos)
He may have looked a bit shaky under the high ball during the State Championship final, but fullback Carlin Anderson possesses a freakish turn of foot and an innate ability to find the try-line. He scored one of the most extraordinary tries of the season in Week 1 of the Intrust Super Cup finals and joins the Broncos on a 12-month deal where his best chance of an NRL debut will be on the wing.
Sattler says: "He's an outstanding talent. He's got speed, he's got great intuition for such a young player and he's got a fantastic attitude by all accounts. Coming through at the same time as Cameron Munster, we're going to see a battle for the Queensland No.1 jersey between those two guys for a lot of years. Different styles, but equally as exciting. I think he's an amazing player and has got a big future if his attitude is as good as what everyone says it is."
*This first appeared on NRL.com.
- May 21, 2013
- 19,708
- 20,983
That's a pretty large wrap for both of those guys, hopefully Carlin gets first chance on the wing next season.
- Thread starter
- #142
ONE of the things the NRL will miss most in 2016 is the kicking game of Pat Richards after the veteran Wests Tigers winger was cut loose to take up a deal with Super League outfit Catalans.
His unique ability to spiral the ball high off the kicking tee is unmatched by any other player in first grade and created some of the most thrilling moments of the last few seasons with helpless opponents stuck under the ball as it dropped and swerved and became uncatchable, particularly in windy conditions.
Not everyone can be Richards but the Ipswich Jets under the coaching of Shane and Ben Walker this year proved there’s more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to getting the ball back off a kick off.
Their wildly successful possession focused philosophy, which delivered the Queensland Cup and State Championship trophies in 2015, was built around tactics like short kick offs, delivering an entertaining spectacle and a success rate of roughly 70 per cent.
League purists like the Walkers don’t give rugby union the time of day but anyone who has followed the Wallabies World Cup campaign will appreciate the unpredictability of the kick off and the ability of restarts to be regained by the kicking team and create huge swings in momentum in a contest of many contests.
Wallabies fly half Bernard Foley is an expert at giving the ball just the right amount of “hang time” on a kick off to give his chasers every chance of disrupting possession.
Shane Walker admits only to watching rugby during sleepless nights because after switching it on he’s “generally gone in a jiffy”.
FIVE-EIGHTH: Manly’s glamour role no one wants
However it’s clear that he appreciates the greater emphasis on possession in the 15-a-side code, which is why his Jets in 2015 used short kick offs with near monotonous regularity.
“We hope no one follows us (and starts using short kick offs) to tell you the truth because they’re too hard to defend,” Walker told foxsports.com.au with a laugh.
“We do it because why not do it. We just can’t see any point in giving the ball back to the opposition uncontested. So we put it up and make it a contest.
“I think from short kick offs we’re about 70 per cent successful, which is better than almost zero when you go long.
“Every now and then when you go long there might be a mistake but most the time you’re just kicking it and you’re resigned to defending.”
Risk averse NRL coaches with blueprints based more firmly on field position would likely argue that the downside of giving the ball to the opposition off a short kick off is too great to take the gamble.
However the Walkers have now got plenty of data to debunk this theory, with Shane explaining why the Jets were rarely penalised when they were unable to secure possession using the tactic.
“Even when we didn’t reclaim the kick off we didn’t find it hurt us at all,” Walker said.
“You put up a short kick off or a short drop out they’ve got to go at least 10 metres and most of ours came down on that 13 or 14 metre mark.
“The opposition, often times their best chance of coming up with it was to knock the ball back, so it goes back to around 20 metres from halfway and if you did a traditional kick off the front-rower runs back to about the 20 metre line, so you’re really only costing yourself about 10 metres.
“We also found that short kick offs, even when the opposition came up with it, they’d end up with a scrappy set because their usual structures are thrown out the window a little bit.
“That whole set that they do is a little bit scrambled.”
While short kick offs and short drop outs are a novelty in the NRL, it’s not the laws of the game preventing coaches from experimenting with them.
That’s not the case in another part of rugby league that used to allow a fierce contest for possession, with modern scrums described as a farce, a joke, or just a variation on a restart depending on who you ask.
Even an innovator like Shane Walker is unsure what to do with scrums now that they’ve been eliminated as a genuine contest but he respects both sides of an argument that’s been ongoing for 30 years.
“The thing with the scrum is that it’s not really allowed to be a contest because of the way it’s policed,” Walker said.
“If the ball is won against the scrum or it pops out, generally the referee will pull it up because they’re not used to seeing it happen and they’re not used to it happening.
“I know why the game’s gone that way, because people want the ball back in play and going again, so you watch rugby union games, they can spend five minutes at a scrum repacking and going again and slipping over and grabbing each other’s jerseys and all that kind of thing.
“The scrum in rugby union is a real contest and I can understand that there’s a lot of technique and gamesmanship that goes into the scrum and that contest and guys with the cauliflower ears would not like to see that go out of the game so I understand that.
“Unless it was going to be adjudicated correctly I think we’re better off just leaving it alone.”
His unique ability to spiral the ball high off the kicking tee is unmatched by any other player in first grade and created some of the most thrilling moments of the last few seasons with helpless opponents stuck under the ball as it dropped and swerved and became uncatchable, particularly in windy conditions.
Not everyone can be Richards but the Ipswich Jets under the coaching of Shane and Ben Walker this year proved there’s more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to getting the ball back off a kick off.
Their wildly successful possession focused philosophy, which delivered the Queensland Cup and State Championship trophies in 2015, was built around tactics like short kick offs, delivering an entertaining spectacle and a success rate of roughly 70 per cent.
League purists like the Walkers don’t give rugby union the time of day but anyone who has followed the Wallabies World Cup campaign will appreciate the unpredictability of the kick off and the ability of restarts to be regained by the kicking team and create huge swings in momentum in a contest of many contests.
Wallabies fly half Bernard Foley is an expert at giving the ball just the right amount of “hang time” on a kick off to give his chasers every chance of disrupting possession.
Shane Walker admits only to watching rugby during sleepless nights because after switching it on he’s “generally gone in a jiffy”.
FIVE-EIGHTH: Manly’s glamour role no one wants
However it’s clear that he appreciates the greater emphasis on possession in the 15-a-side code, which is why his Jets in 2015 used short kick offs with near monotonous regularity.
“We hope no one follows us (and starts using short kick offs) to tell you the truth because they’re too hard to defend,” Walker told foxsports.com.au with a laugh.
“We do it because why not do it. We just can’t see any point in giving the ball back to the opposition uncontested. So we put it up and make it a contest.
“I think from short kick offs we’re about 70 per cent successful, which is better than almost zero when you go long.
“Every now and then when you go long there might be a mistake but most the time you’re just kicking it and you’re resigned to defending.”
Risk averse NRL coaches with blueprints based more firmly on field position would likely argue that the downside of giving the ball to the opposition off a short kick off is too great to take the gamble.
However the Walkers have now got plenty of data to debunk this theory, with Shane explaining why the Jets were rarely penalised when they were unable to secure possession using the tactic.
“Even when we didn’t reclaim the kick off we didn’t find it hurt us at all,” Walker said.
“You put up a short kick off or a short drop out they’ve got to go at least 10 metres and most of ours came down on that 13 or 14 metre mark.
“The opposition, often times their best chance of coming up with it was to knock the ball back, so it goes back to around 20 metres from halfway and if you did a traditional kick off the front-rower runs back to about the 20 metre line, so you’re really only costing yourself about 10 metres.
“We also found that short kick offs, even when the opposition came up with it, they’d end up with a scrappy set because their usual structures are thrown out the window a little bit.
“That whole set that they do is a little bit scrambled.”
While short kick offs and short drop outs are a novelty in the NRL, it’s not the laws of the game preventing coaches from experimenting with them.
That’s not the case in another part of rugby league that used to allow a fierce contest for possession, with modern scrums described as a farce, a joke, or just a variation on a restart depending on who you ask.
Even an innovator like Shane Walker is unsure what to do with scrums now that they’ve been eliminated as a genuine contest but he respects both sides of an argument that’s been ongoing for 30 years.
“The thing with the scrum is that it’s not really allowed to be a contest because of the way it’s policed,” Walker said.
“If the ball is won against the scrum or it pops out, generally the referee will pull it up because they’re not used to seeing it happen and they’re not used to it happening.
“I know why the game’s gone that way, because people want the ball back in play and going again, so you watch rugby union games, they can spend five minutes at a scrum repacking and going again and slipping over and grabbing each other’s jerseys and all that kind of thing.
“The scrum in rugby union is a real contest and I can understand that there’s a lot of technique and gamesmanship that goes into the scrum and that contest and guys with the cauliflower ears would not like to see that go out of the game so I understand that.
“Unless it was going to be adjudicated correctly I think we’re better off just leaving it alone.”
- Thread starter
- #143
Warranted; Munster is the first ISC player since Inglis that you knew within a couple of games he shouldn't be here and won't be here long.
Anderson I have been talking about since his debut but time will tell; he's done everything right so far.
broncos4life
International Captain
- Oct 5, 2011
- 26,727
- 27,408
Should this just be renamed the Ipswich Jets/walker bros thread? Would save a lot of confusion.
