[Confirmed] Russell Packer -->Not the Broncos

[Foordy]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Not murder. If they guy died it would be manslaughter.

He would have been charged with MURDER ... the police would have argued that by stamping on the guys head while unconsious constituted INTENT (which is obviously the difference between the 2 crimes).

 

[Unbreakable]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

He would have been charged with MURDER ... the police would have argued that by stamping on the guys head while unconsious constituted INTENT (which is obviously the difference between the 2 crimes).

Then why wasn't he charged with attempted murder?

 

[Porthoz]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

No, that's not what I said.

I am ok with someone making a huge mistake, being rehabilitated and getting another chance.

If it were my brother that would be completely different because regardless I wouldn't forgive, because it's my brother. I think that's pretty self explanatory. I may have opinions on something but they obviously change if that same thing has happened to someone close to me

But if you want to put things back on me I can play that game too. Are you saying you are more ok with someone that beats a woman our glasses her in the face than you are with someone that gets punched and retaliates to much?

As for saying he is lucky he isn't a murderer, even if they guy died he wouldn't be a murderer. Murder requires motive, intent and premeditation. If he has any of that he would be in jail for attempted murder

That's exactly what you said and are saying, and although you say you can read, I'm starting to think you either actually can't... or you just ignore what you read to have a go anyway.

Of course you'd be angrier and feel more aggrieved if it's your family, and possibly even go to extremes, but if you believe that someone that makes a huge mistake deserves rehabilitation and in this case, to get another shot at the elite life of a footy player; that should also go for whomever does so on someone close to you, otherwise it's simply hypocrisy.

I prefer to look at how I would feel if the victim was someone close to me, when taking a stance on this type of stuff, because when it comes to rehabilitation and rights of criminals, the victims should always take priority imo. This is exactly what I argued a while ago regarding the Shaun Metcalf to the Warriors case!

Get your facts straight. Packer didn't get punched, he king hit the guy for accusing him of pinching a couple of ciggies, then went on to punch him several times while he was down, and tried to finish him off by stomping on him.
He may not have been accused of attempted murder, but his actions were exactly that, as it doesn't take premeditation to be called murder. FTR, in cases like this, this is the difference between murder and manslaughter in Australia:

If the defendant can convince the jury that he acted as a “reasonable” person would in response to something the victim said or did, he can be charged with manslaughter instead of murder.

Of course, there are a lot of imponderables, as well as whether intoxication can be used as a contributing or attenuating factor (which it legally does not), but in essence, had his actions resulted in death, it would have been at the very least aggravated manslaughter.
Regardless, I really don't give a shit what they call it, as in these type of offenses, the prosecutor will generally go with a charge that carries a good probability of success, or even a plea (as was the case).

As to the comparison with punching or glassing a woman...
Well, it's a despicable act which should carry a much heavier punishment than it does when the person is found guilty, including not playing NRL or any type of elite sport again.
I'm not sure what exactly happened in Barba's and Inglis cases, and although there are strong doubts, neither were found guilty, so until proven otherwise, they're not even remotely close to Packer's case. The same goes for Bird, although his case is aggravated because he allegedly not only punched, but glassed his girlfriend. Besides he's a NSW'ker grub.

FTR, Lui shouldn't be anywhere near a footy field, but even his case is still not comparable with Packer's case, not matter how much you'd like it to be. It has nothing to do with being "more ok", as neither is anywhere near "ok". One is just worse than the other!

 

[Porthoz]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

No one said that. At all. If you are going to act like a child what's the point of a discussion?

Oh I'm sorry, I thought sarcasm was your thing... :thefinger:

 

[subsbligh]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

You've got to build the right positive, inclusive, harmonised, family-based culture from the ground up to be a successful football club.

Packer was never that good anyway. Surely the potential good doesn't outweigh the bad here B4L, whichever way you try to cut it. If it's Jarryd Hayne coming out of jail maybe...

It's going to be pretty hard for the victim and his family to see Packer on TV bashing blokes in professional rugby league every week isn't it?

And would the best thing for a bloke like this to be to walk straight back into an NRL contract?

How does he handle the next yobbo at the Normanby hotel that provokes him?

And why would the Broncos take on that risk? What's the upside?

 

[Bucking Beads]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

The talk of Russell Packer being the intimidating forward is being massively overblown IMO. He isn't going to play big minutes and doesn't make big charges at all. He might hit hard in D but even that isn't a certainty.

 

[Foordy]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Then why wasn't he charged with attempted murder?

can't tell you what the NSW police are thinking when laying charges ... but a friend of mine who is a QLD police officer says if the guy died, that what he would have been charged with up here. (obviously thats just going by facts as reported in the media) facts that haven't been released to the public, may shed more light on the matter

 

[Porthoz]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Got to laugh.....Porthoz called a rugby league player a member of society's elite !!!!

I mean come on, just because you can play a bit of footy does not mean you are elite ffs. You may indeed be worshipped by the slow witted but elite, never . I'm not saying a footy player couldn't become a member of the elite but he could never get there just by playing the game no matter how many tests or origins he plays. Andrew Johns, elite lol.

Come on, don't be smug. You know I'm not talking in the sense of personality or intellectually. Any professional sportsman belongs in society's "Elite", in the sense of public perception, just by the exposure he gets.

Being a professional footballer affords you a lot of things that "normal" persons don't get, starting with media coverage, salary, and certain doors opening that would otherwise stay closed.
Would Johns have ever had a chance at a media career if it wasn't for his footy ability?

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

I am surprised to see that many of the bennett lovers are even against this signing. good to see. it does just confirm my thoughts on bennett tho. hes not necessarily about improving the team. Boyd and Packer seem to be charity cases for him, sons that he can "fix" and help. thats not what u want from a coach. we dont need a dad for these players, we need a coach that wants the best for the team and club, not for some fucked up criminal he feels sorry for

 

[broncos4life]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

He would have been charged with MURDER ... the police would have argued that by stamping on the guys head while unconsious constituted INTENT (which is obviously the difference between the 2 crimes).

And the premeditation? or do we just ignore that?

It would have been manslaughter

 

[Foordy]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

And the premeditation? or do we just ignore that?

It would have been manslaughter

murder doesn't have to be premeditated ...

for a murder charge to be upheld, you need to prove INTENT to kill, many murders are not premeditated ... best way to describe them is "crimes of passion" but they are still classified as murder.

manslaughter is basically murder without the element of INTENT, nothing to do with premeditation

 

[broncos4life]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

That's exactly what you said and are saying, and although you say you can read, I'm starting to think you either actually can't... or you just ignore what you read to have a go anyway.

Of course you'd be angrier and feel more aggrieved if it's your family, and possibly even go to extremes, but if you believe that someone that makes a huge mistake deserves rehabilitation and in this case, to get another shot at the elite life of a footy player; that should also go for whomever does so on someone close to you, otherwise it's simply hypocrisy.

I prefer to look at how I would feel if the victim was someone close to me, when taking a stance on this type of stuff, because when it comes to rehabilitation and rights of criminals, the victims should always take priority imo. This is exactly what I argued a while ago regarding the Shaun Metcalf to the Warriors case!

Get your facts straight. Packer didn't get punched, he king hit the guy for accusing him of pinching a couple of ciggies, then went on to punch him several times while he was down, and tried to finish him off by stomping on him.
He may not have been accused of attempted murder, but his actions were exactly that, as it doesn't take premeditation to be called murder. FTR, in cases like this, this is the difference between murder and manslaughter in Australia:

Of course, there are a lot of imponderables, as well as whether intoxication can be used as a contributing or attenuating factor (which it legally does not), but in essence, had his actions resulted in death, it would have been at the very least aggravated manslaughter.
Regardless, I really don't give a shit what they call it, as in these type of offenses, the prosecutor will generally go with a charge that carries a good probability of success, or even a plea (as was the case).

As to the comparison with punching or glassing a woman...
Well, it's a despicable act which should carry a much heavier punishment than it does when the person is found guilty, including not playing NRL or any type of elite sport again.
I'm not sure what exactly happened in Barba's and Inglis cases, and although there are strong doubts, neither were found guilty, so until proven otherwise, they're not even remotely close to Packer's case. The same goes for Bird, although his case is aggravated because he allegedly not only punched, but glassed his girlfriend. Besides he's a NSW'ker grub.

FTR, Lui shouldn't be anywhere near a footy field, but even his case is still not comparable with Packer's case, not matter how much you'd like it to be. It has nothing to do with being "more ok", as neither is anywhere near "ok". One is just worse than the other!

No it's not what I said or what I am saying.

Yes it does make me a hypocrite and I never said I wasn;t one, in fact many times in posts relating to numerous threads I have admitted openly that I am a hypocrite. I have an opinion on rehabilitation but that all changes if you hurt someone close to me, thats just the way I am.

Well to me if it was attempted murder it would be classed as such, but I'm not going to argue with you, if you want to call it murder than that's fine.

How is Lui's case not comparable? because he bashed his pregnant girlfriend? So if this bloke was pregnant it would be comparable?

Why do you have to make everything so personal? It's like I have personally offended you because I feel like when I bloke has spent year in jail he deserves the chance to show if he has turned his life around.

 

[broncos4life]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

murder doesn't have to be premeditated ...

for a murder charge to be upheld, you need to prove INTENT to kill, many murders are not premeditated ... best way to describe them is "crimes of passion" but they are still classified as murder.

manslaughter is basically murder without the element of INTENT, nothing to do with premeditation

Fair call, I thought it did have to be premeditated. Doesn't change the fact that he wasn't charged with attempted murder.

 

[broncos4life]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Oh I'm sorry, I thought sarcasm was your thing... :thefinger:

Sarcasm was my thing, but I'm doing it on the forum anymore because I got sick of the incessant whingeing about it.

FWIW I didn't realise you were being sarcastic as what you said was no where near what people were saying.

 

[Cult]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

I am surprised to see that many of the bennett lovers are even against this signing. good to see. it does just confirm my thoughts on bennett tho. hes not necessarily about improving the team. Boyd and Packer seem to be charity cases for him, sons that he can "fix" and help. thats not what u want from a coach. we dont need a dad for these players, we need a coach that wants the best for the team and club, not for some fucked up criminal he feels sorry for

Yeah because the Queensland winger and Kiwi prop wouldn't help us at all. Just stop already.

 

[Foordy]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Yeah because the Queensland winger and Kiwi prop wouldn't help us at all. Just stop already.

we don't need another prop that only averages 80m a game (in his best year.)

and if agression is all we want from him, surely we can do better than Packer

 

[broncos4life]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

I am surprised to see that many of the bennett lovers are even against this signing. good to see. it does just confirm my thoughts on bennett tho. hes not necessarily about improving the team. Boyd and Packer seem to be charity cases for him, sons that he can "fix" and help. thats not what u want from a coach. we dont need a dad for these players, we need a coach that wants the best for the team and club, not for some fucked up criminal he feels sorry for

Bennett lovers or not has nothing to do with this. Most people can make an opinion based on each scenario without an agenda, judging by your comment I'm guessing you can't.

We don't even know if Bennett is looking to sign him, there has been no quotes or anything. At this stage it's purely speculation from the media based on Packer getting out soon and that prior to his sentence WB signed him at Newcastle

 

[Huge]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Maybe WB thinks he can turn Packer into something special. Didn't he do something like that with a St George prop, even if only for the time he coached him ?