FOOTBALL English Premier League 23/24 Discussion

[Wolfie]

So he's swapped one shit show club that signs players for the hell of it for another club that does the same thing.

Let's not forget this is the same United that signed Malacia last season after an impressive stint in the Eredivisie. They already have seemingly discarded him. I like Cucarella and generally agree there isn't much to lose from United's perspective, I just don't see it being a great move for the player at 25yo.

He's effectively a stop gap (I think they could upgrade Shaw quite easily) that most likely ends up back in La Liga or goes to Saudi next season.

It's a deal that makes sense I suppose, I am just reluctant to think it's a 'smart' signing. People were saying the same thing about Dubravka, Weghorst and Ighalo.

While i'm no fan of United, Ten Hag has been pretty considered overall ( with a couple of exceptions ) with his signings since he got to United. The ball now is in Cucurella's court. If he performs well he will get a good move. I cant see how it isnt a smart signing. He's nothing like Weghorst or Ighalo as he has proved he is a good top flight player. The 2 strikers were premier league flops and championship players at best. They were just head scratcher signings. Dubravka was always bought in as backup to cover the loss of Henderson and you would have to say it was a smart move, just like this one is. Low risk with a high upside if it works. Every signing doesnt have to be an improvement on the first team for a top 6 side.

 

[The True King]

While i'm no fan of United, Ten Hag has been pretty considered overall ( with a couple of exceptions ) with his signings since he got to United. The ball now is in Cucurella's court. If he performs well he will get a good move. I cant see how it isnt a smart signing. He's nothing like Weghorst or Ighalo as he has proved he is a good top flight player. The 2 strikers were premier league flops and championship players at best. They were just head scratcher signings. Dubravka was always bought in as backup to cover the loss of Henderson and you would have to say it was a smart move, just like this one is. Low risk with a high upside if it works. Every signing doesnt have to be an improvement on the first team for a top 6 side.

Ighalo at Watford was definitely not a PL flop.

I'll give him credit where its due for the Martinez signing, even allow for the Malacia jury to still be out. Casemiro was an opportunistic move, fair play too but it was a significant fee. I think Eriksen was great business but we're seeing his limitations, no harm done with it being a free. Getting Ronaldo out was probably the best move of the lot given the toxicity at the club around then.

Weghorst was obviously a bad one and he has to take responsibility for that.
I don't think Antony will end up justifying the price tag either but that's subjective, some seem to still rate him. I genuinely think Elanga is as good if not better. His departure is on ETH and will look silly if he kicks on at Forest.
He also let go of Andreas who's been great for Fulham. Arguable as to if he ever would have got a look in at United but I think he would have been more useful than Donny and Sabitzer certainly wasn't anything special or inspiring.
He's failed to get any sort of tune out of Sancho either (not his signing but still a valid criticism given the talent).

Way too early to judge Mount or Onana, there's plenty of United fans on both sides of the fence there already. Excluding those two and any other random squad fodder, it's pretty close to a 50% hit rate on the balance of the other guys bought/sold above. We can argue the toss as to which one of those Cucurella is most likely to fall into.

Ultimately though I think his legacy will be defined by what he can get out of Hojlund, Antony and Mount. Those are the three big money moves that he'll be judged on.

 

[BroncsFan]

Ighalo at Watford was definitely not a PL flop.

I'll give him credit where its due for the Martinez signing, even allow for the Malacia jury to still be out. Casemiro was an opportunistic move, fair play too but it was a significant fee. I think Eriksen was great business but we're seeing his limitations, no harm done with it being a free. Getting Ronaldo out was probably the best move of the lot given the toxicity at the club around then.

Weghorst was obviously a bad one and he has to take responsibility for that.
I don't think Antony will end up justifying the price tag either but that's subjective, some seem to still rate him. I genuinely think Elanga is as good if not better. His departure is on ETH and will look silly if he kicks on at Forest.
He also let go of Andreas who's been great for Fulham. Arguable as to if he ever would have got a look in at United but I think he would have been more useful than Donny and Sabitzer certainly wasn't anything special or inspiring.
He's failed to get any sort of tune out of Sancho either (not his signing but still a valid criticism given the talent).

Way too early to judge Mount or Onana, there's plenty of United fans on both sides of the fence there already. Excluding those two and any other random squad fodder, it's pretty close to a 50% hit rate on the balance of the other guys bought/sold above. We can argue the toss as to which one of those Cucurella is most likely to fall into.

Ultimately though I think his legacy will be defined by what he can get out of Hojlund, Antony and Mount. Those are the three big money moves that he'll be judged on.

Weghorst was a signing out of necessity because the owners are shithouse.

We lost Cavani, Ronaldo and Martial is injured 90% of the time, but the owners dont buy anyone. They've basically failed to replace 3 strikers that have been lost over 12-18 months... and have finally bought Hojlund, but even then he wasnt the first choice that ETH wanted.

On Antony... ETH wanted him early in the window and wouldve got him for about $50m or so. United then proceeded to **** around with getting De Jong for the entire window only to come back to Ajax at the 11th hour when they'd sold off half their squad and had no time to find a replacement, so they chucked a ridiculous fee on him which United had to pay because of the two disastrous losses to start last year.

Most of the time ETH is not getting his 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice players because the negotiating team and owners are garbage at their jobs... so he has to settle with whoever he can actually get.

There is no reason for us to still have so much deadwood in the squad, but they're unable to sell anyone... why the **** is someone like Henderson still there... he should've been sold under Ole... Bailly is still contracted FFS.

 

[The True King]

Weghorst was a signing out of necessity because the owners are shithouse.

We lost Cavani, Ronaldo and Martial is injured 90% of the time, but the owners dont buy anyone. They've basically failed to replace 3 strikers that have been lost over 12-18 months... and have finally bought Hojlund, but even then he wasnt the first choice that ETH wanted.

On Antony... ETH wanted him early in the window and wouldve got him for about $50m or so. United then proceeded to **** around with getting De Jong for the entire window only to come back to Ajax at the 11th hour when they'd sold off half their squad and had no time to find a replacement, so they chucked a ridiculous fee on him which United had to pay because of the two disastrous losses to start last year.

Most of the time ETH is not getting his 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice players because the negotiating team and owners are garbage at their jobs... so he has to settle with whoever he can actually get.

There is no reason for us to still have so much deadwood in the squad, but they're unable to sell anyone... why the **** is someone like Henderson still there... he should've been sold under Ole... Bailly is still contracted FFS.

I can't agree with this.

You stated already that Antony was his first choice, regardless of the time it took he got him and the price was what Ajax demanded all along.

We also know that ETH wanted Mount, that was clear from the beginning of the summer. We also know he wanted Casemiro. The De Jong saga was a disaster but ultimately if a player doesn't want to leave Barcelona you're going to have a hard time getting him out. No amount of wages were changing him mind, from all reports Barca were happy with the fee you guys were proposing.

On Hojlund, who was the priority instead? The striker market is pretty bare and you guys showed little to no interest in Kolo Muani. There's maybe a case for Oshimen but Napoli made it very clear he was going nowhere for less than $120mil. Similarly Benfica weren't letting Ramos go once they got cash for Uguarde. Levy said from the get go that he wasn't going to sell Kane to United either.

And there's Onana, again ETH's 1st choice GK having worked together in the past.

With the exception of a couple of those loans, ETH has got almost every big signing that he has asked for. I am here all day to criticize the owners but at some point ETH has to be responsible for the few hundred million he's spent.

 

[Wolfie]

Ighalo at Watford was definitely not a PL flop.

I'll give him credit where its due for the Martinez signing, even allow for the Malacia jury to still be out. Casemiro was an opportunistic move, fair play too but it was a significant fee. I think Eriksen was great business but we're seeing his limitations, no harm done with it being a free. Getting Ronaldo out was probably the best move of the lot given the toxicity at the club around then.

Weghorst was obviously a bad one and he has to take responsibility for that.
I don't think Antony will end up justifying the price tag either but that's subjective, some seem to still rate him. I genuinely think Elanga is as good if not better. His departure is on ETH and will look silly if he kicks on at Forest.
He also let go of Andreas who's been great for Fulham. Arguable as to if he ever would have got a look in at United but I think he would have been more useful than Donny and Sabitzer certainly wasn't anything special or inspiring.
He's failed to get any sort of tune out of Sancho either (not his signing but still a valid criticism given the talent).

Way too early to judge Mount or Onana, there's plenty of United fans on both sides of the fence there already. Excluding those two and any other random squad fodder, it's pretty close to a 50% hit rate on the balance of the other guys bought/sold above. We can argue the toss as to which one of those Cucurella is most likely to fall into.

Ultimately though I think his legacy will be defined by what he can get out of Hojlund, Antony and Mount. Those are the three big money moves that he'll be judged on.

Ighalo was gash when he went to United. Dont know how he got goals at Watford that one year.

 

[The True King]

Ighalo was gash when he went to United. Dont know how he got goals at Watford that one year.

Ighalo proved he wasn't a PL flop at Watford. He was poor at United but that's as much on the manager/recruitment team for picking him up from China and thinking it was shrewd business.

I've made a few points on United over the last few posts but I'll finish up on Cucurella and why I think he isn't a 'smart' signing like you are suggesting.

Firstly, you mentioned his time at Getafe. His final season there he was great, even Guardiola referenced him as a talented player. The thing was that he was largely deployed as a left midfielder. He played a grand total of 1 game at LB in his final season before he got the Brighton move. At the time their LB was Oliveira, who has since moved and become a first team regular at Napoli.

Secondly, at Brighton he was also very good - but again he wasn't a traditional LB. They would name Cucurella, Veldtman, Dunk and Webster in a back 4 along with Lamptey as RM. On paper it looked like he was a LB but in reality they were playing a back 3 with Cucurella and Lamptey playing as wing backs. It was smart from Brighton to identify a game plan that worked to his strengths but they knew he was a liability defensively and better going forward.

At Chelsea they tried him numerous times in a back 4 and it failed badly. Potter even tried him as a LCB with Chilwell as a LWB and that didn't work either.

In theory I think it could work at United but they'll have to fundamentally change the way they play to allow for him to play as more of a LWB/LM. It is going to also put significant pressure on Varane, Casemiro, and Martinez to cover larger spaces centrally. It's also worth noting that Shaw is a very good defensive LB and can cover CB at a pinch too - he has the defensive discipline that we haven't seen from Cucurella.
Arguably someone like AWB or Dalot could play RB and slide across to RCB (similar to White at Arsenal last season) but if they want Cucurella to replicate what Shaw does defensively in a back 4 it is going to end badly.

My belief is that if you are changing the entire system to accommodate a player like Cucurella then you have probably made the wrong move. I guess time will tell.

 

[Wolfie]

Ighalo is just another Michu/Santa-Cruz/ Benjani/ Doyle/ Stewart/ Cisse/Mido etc. Fluked one good year then nothing again. Seen it over and over with players like that.

Remains to be seen if thats the case with Cucurella. Probably his last opportunity at a big club in England.

 

[The True King]

Ighalo is just another Michu/Santa-Cruz/ Benjani/ Doyle/ Stewart/ Cisse/Mido etc. Fluked one good year then nothing again. Seen it over and over with players like that.

Remains to be seen if thats the case with Cucurella. Probably his last opportunity at a big club in England.

Ighalo was a huge reason they got promoted in the first place. I think he has a few runs on the board in terms of what he did at Watford. He ruined any chance of having a PL legacy by leaving to China at the peak of his career and injuries didn't help.

Cucurella won't end up being in that conversation anyway. Regardless of how the United spell turns out he'll go on to be somewhat successful back in Spain.

It's a shame about the timing of the Shaw injury, someone like Tierney or Lewis Hall/Jamal Lewis would have been interesting pick ups. I wonder if they had a look at Renan Lodi or Sergio Reguillon.

 

[Super Freak]

 

[The True King]

Ok so we just confirmed Man United scouts are reading this forum.

 

[ningnangnong]

Gravenberch looks done for LFC.

 

[Super Freak]

Here we go.

 

[Super Freak]

Crystal Palace have also signed Dean Henderson.

£15 million I believe it was. Combine that with the Fred funds, surely we've got enough to go for Amrabat now.

 

[The True King]

Gravenberch looks done for LFC.

Hyped about this and the fee is perfect for a 21yo.

This guy was the main star in a Ajax team with Alvarez, Timber, Martinez, Antony, Haller and Kudus. Made a huge error 12 months ago and his career stalled at Bayern but if there's any manager that can get him going again it's Klopp.

I don't think he's the solution at DM but with his quality and versatility its the sort of deal you just cant turn down at the price

 

[Super Freak]

Gravenberch looks done for LFC.

Rejected Man United for Liverpool. Very clearly he has brain damage

 

[The True King]

Here we go.

Maybe I should ask for some sort of retainer for doing their scouting business for them

 

[The True King]

Rejected Man United for Liverpool. Very clearly he has brain damage

Partly true, also not helped by the fact United have no money to pay a transfer fee

 

[The True King]

Fulham are now in the race to sign Amrabat. Have a bid ready to go and just a matter of convincing the player. Palhinha to Bayern for $60mil will give them the funds required.

Fiorentina are preferring a permanent deal over any sort of loan.

This could get seriously ugly for United...