FOOTBALL English Premier League 23/24 Discussion

[Super Freak]

Full UCL group stage draw:

GROUP A: Bayern Munich, Manchester United, FC Copenhagen, Galatasaray
GROUP B: Sevilla, Arsenal, PSV Eindhoven, Lens
GROUP C: Napoli, Real Madrid, SC Braga, Union Berlin
GROUP D: Benfica, Inter Milan, FC Salzburg, Real Sociedad
GROUP E: Feyenoord, Atletico Madrid, Lazio, Celtic
GROUP F: PSG, Borussia Dortmund, AC Milan, Newcastle United
GROUP G: Manchester City, RB Leipzig, Red Star Belgrade, Young Boys
GROUP H: Barcelona, FC Porto, Shakhtar Donetsk, Royal Antwerp

We should be able to advance beyond the group stage with that draw.

 

[The True King]

Full UCL group stage draw:

GROUP A: Bayern Munich, Manchester United, FC Copenhagen, Galatasaray
GROUP B: Sevilla, Arsenal, PSV Eindhoven, Lens
GROUP C: Napoli, Real Madrid, SC Braga, Union Berlin
GROUP D: Benfica, Inter Milan, FC Salzburg, Real Sociedad
GROUP E: Feyenoord, Atletico Madrid, Lazio, Celtic
GROUP F: PSG, Borussia Dortmund, AC Milan, Newcastle United
GROUP G: Manchester City, RB Leipzig, Red Star Belgrade, Young Boys
GROUP H: Barcelona, FC Porto, Shakhtar Donetsk, Royal Antwerp

We should be able to advance beyond the group stage with that draw.

Man U fan? You guys should be okay but Galatasaray are going to be a headache. Some seriously dangerous players in that squad - Ziyech, Icardi and Mertens. Would be typical United to catch Zaha on a good day too.

Newcastle have copped it rough, they'll do extremely well just to get into Europa.

 

[Renegade]

Fati to Brighton is certainly an FM-esque transfer/loan.

Interested to see how he goes in the Brighton system. Might return to Barca a new man if all goes well.

 

[The True King]

Some initial thoughts on the window:

City 5/5 - brilliant window considering what they lost. Kovacic, Nunes and Gvardiol are all first team ready players and quality. Doku is a guy that Pep will enjoy moulding into something special, gives me Sane vibes. It's amazing how efficient they are in the window, not only with who they've bought but also selling Palmer on deadline day for a huge profit to balance the FFP books is really smart business.

Chelsea 4/5 - most importantly they've trimmed the fat. Lots of early outgoings raised some handy revenue and moved on big wage earners. They then moved late to secure Caicedo, Sanchez and Lavia. With that the midfield rebuild is complete. Jackson is good business on top of the incoming Nkunku and the returns of Colwill and Gusto are effectively new signings too. Disasi and Ugochukwu will have important roles to play. Palmer is questionable, I still think they're an elite attacking midfielder short of a fantastic window.

Arsenal 4/5 - just a consolidation window. Rice is transformational and Timber was fantastic business, both add versatility to the squad. Havertz will be the one that defines Arteta's success this season with many questions remaining around his role. Raya another quietly good signing and adds competition. Aside from Xhaka they haven't really lost much of note. Lose a point because on paper it just doesn't look enough has been done to take the next step and win the league.

Liverpool 3/5 - it's a pass mark but very narrowly. Rebuilding the midfield with Gravenberch, Szoboslai and Mac Alister is exciting, probably money well spent given it looked for a while like it would all go towards Bellingham. The move for Endo is interesting and shrewd but remains to be seen if they've replaced Milner, Fabinho, Henderson, Keita and Ox sufficiently. Biggest mark downs are the humiliation suffered at the hands of Chelsea through the Caicedo/Lavia saga as well as the clear failure to sign another CB. They are an injury or two away from disaster.

United 2.5/5 - this mark hinges on a few things. Firstly, it will be a failed window if they can't get Amrabat sorted. Aside from that, Onana is a key piece of business and an upgrade on De Gea stylistically while Hojlund is a promising player and proper target man. Mount will be critical to their success and finding a role in the system that suits him. I don't think they have enough incomings but part of that is due to the ownership situation and also the inability to move on guys like Maguire and McTominay.

Spurs 3/5 - a slightly stronger pass mark than LFC. Maddison is great business, Van de Ven looks PL quality, while Vicario looks a gem too. Arguably their best signings are the re-birth of Bissouma and return of Udogie, they are potential superstars. The sale of Kane was inevitable and raised the right money but they haven't signed anyone since selling him, so where did that money go? They lose a few points for not signing another striker or attacking option and there's still plenty to be desired in terms of depth, as we saw in the cup.

Newcastle 2.5/5 - in all honesty there wasn't much they needed to do other than reinforce and I'm not sure they've done it. Tonali and Barnes are the big marquee signings, both add quality and depth to a squad that will need it for Europe. Lewis Hall is an interesting one, slightly riskier given the price while Livramento is solid depth and a rotation option. Losing Saint-Maxim is huge and they'll have to get lucky with injuries but overall I think they're a signing or two short of retaining a top 4 spot given what others (Liverpool and Chelsea namely) around them have done.

 

[Renegade]

I don't really rate the Havertz signing. He's a bit of a nothing player for mine and did little with Chelsea for 3 years sans the UCL final goal. Chelsea must be laughing they recouped most of their money.

Rice is a great signing though. Awful luck with the Timber ACL injury.

 

[Wolfie]

Ighalo proved he wasn't a PL flop at Watford. He was poor at United but that's as much on the manager/recruitment team for picking him up from China and thinking it was shrewd business.

I've made a few points on United over the last few posts but I'll finish up on Cucurella and why I think he isn't a 'smart' signing like you are suggesting.

Firstly, you mentioned his time at Getafe. His final season there he was great, even Guardiola referenced him as a talented player. The thing was that he was largely deployed as a left midfielder. He played a grand total of 1 game at LB in his final season before he got the Brighton move. At the time their LB was Oliveira, who has since moved and become a first team regular at Napoli.

Secondly, at Brighton he was also very good - but again he wasn't a traditional LB. They would name Cucurella, Veldtman, Dunk and Webster in a back 4 along with Lamptey as RM. On paper it looked like he was a LB but in reality they were playing a back 3 with Cucurella and Lamptey playing as wing backs. It was smart from Brighton to identify a game plan that worked to his strengths but they knew he was a liability defensively and better going forward.

At Chelsea they tried him numerous times in a back 4 and it failed badly. Potter even tried him as a LCB with Chilwell as a LWB and that didn't work either.

In theory I think it could work at United but they'll have to fundamentally change the way they play to allow for him to play as more of a LWB/LM. It is going to also put significant pressure on Varane, Casemiro, and Martinez to cover larger spaces centrally. It's also worth noting that Shaw is a very good defensive LB and can cover CB at a pinch too - he has the defensive discipline that we haven't seen from Cucurella.
Arguably someone like AWB or Dalot could play RB and slide across to RCB (similar to White at Arsenal last season) but if they want Cucurella to replicate what Shaw does defensively in a back 4 it is going to end badly.

My belief is that if you are changing the entire system to accommodate a player like Cucurella then you have probably made the wrong move. I guess time will tell.

One good season doesnt make you a good premier league player and doesnt mean you arent a flop. As i listed, so many have one decent season then do nothing. Michu looked a world beater and ended up with a Spain call up. Then he did nothing after. You have to keep doing well year after year, not be a one season wonder.

 

[The True King]

One good season doesnt make you a good premier league player and doesnt mean you arent a flop. As i listed, so many have one decent season then do nothing. Michu looked a world beater and ended up with a Spain call up. Then he did nothing after. You have to keep doing well year after year, not be a one season wonder.

True but I never said he was a good premier league player either. I only said he was a useful player for Watford and that also considered the role he played in their promotion.

Weghorst definitely was a flop. There are hundreds if not thousands of players who didn't even have one good season in the prem - those would be more of what I consider flops than someone like Ighalo.

He was a one season wonder, just like Rickie Lambert was a two season wonder.

 

[Wolfie]

I'm probably just a hard marker. I'm from the Roy Keane school of judging players.

 

[Brocko]

United 2.5/5

You come across to me as pretty harsh on anything United (I get it) but to me this score is generous.

Amrabat is still every chance of getting fumbled, they got a good project striker with no backup, bought an attacking mid that wasn't a necessity and have neglected the 6 position that everyone could see was needed.

They then sold only a couple players for **** all when you see what others are selling players to Saudi for. They turned down a very good offer for McTominay and failed to get Maguire to leave.

They've then entered the market very late for a backup gk and lb out of necessity while trying to undercut the life out of Fiorentina for a player that has said he wants to come since June.

I'm sure the GK will be fine, but with Onana now heading to AFCON this is someone we need to rely on for around 4 weeks. Regulion has been picked up for LB solely because they can send him back in January, not because of him being a good pickup. Cucurella was a better quality option, but they fumbled that too over the fee and Chelsea played him the other night to ensure he was cup tied.

The inability to get deals done quickly and severe inability to sell players drags the score way down for me. Not even just getting good prices for players, but for now we still have Donny, Maguire and McTominay on the books who just will not be playing any minutes. That's terrible business.

City clearly won the window as you said. Great sales, good ins, yet again they've dominated and off the back of the treble. Painful.

Chelsea getting so much cash for players into Saudi was well done as well. Nkunku injury will probably hurt them as they were banking on him.

Liverpool ended up with a pass mark, but need to stay injury free. Grav is such a good pickup. Keen to see him in the prem and see if he can do what Donny from that same Ajax team couldn't, and make a go at it in the prem.

Arsenal did pretty good business and I'm a big fan of Rice. Like United with Mount, just don't know about the Havertz signing. Just wonder if maybe they'll regret not getting a 9.

Newcastle depth going to be really stretched with UCL and more expectations in cups. They have 0 'easy' games in UCL too. I'm surprised they didn't make more signings tbh.

Spurs lost one of the worlds best strikers and replaced him with nobody, but they got a good manager. Like Arsenal, think over the season they too might also miss a 9. Richarlison for mine is rubbish.

 

[Wolfie]

The snake has signed for Citeh now. Hope he crashes and burns. What a ****.

 

[The True King]

The snake has signed for Citeh now. Hope he crashes and burns. What a ****.

Snake? Who's this?

 

[Brocko]

In all that wall of text I didn't even mention the joke of how they have handled the Greenwood stuff. Tried to play both sides, then made it absolutely clear they were trying to protect a 'valuable asset'. Garbage human but hey, 'we might be able to sell him'.

Sounds like he is off to Italy with Lazio according to Di Marzio on a free with them covering the salary.

 

[Wolfie]

Snake? Who's this?

That rat Nunes.

 

[The True King]

You come across to me as pretty harsh on anything United (I get it) but to me this score is generous.

Amrabat is still every chance of getting fumbled, they got a good project striker with no backup, bought an attacking mid that wasn't a necessity and have neglected the 6 position that everyone could see was needed.

They then sold only a couple players for **** all when you see what others are selling players to Saudi for. They turned down a very good offer for McTominay and failed to get Maguire to leave.

They've then entered the market very late for a backup gk and lb out of necessity while trying to undercut the life out of Fiorentina for a player that has said he wants to come since June.

I'm sure the GK will be fine, but with Onana now heading to AFCON this is someone we need to rely on for around 4 weeks. Regulion has been picked up for LB solely because they can send him back in January, not because of him being a good pickup. Cucurella was a better quality option, but they fumbled that too over the fee and Chelsea played him the other night to ensure he was cup tied.

The inability to get deals done quickly and severe inability to sell players drags the score way down for me. Not even just getting good prices for players, but for now we still have Donny, Maguire and McTominay on the books who just will not be playing any minutes. That's terrible business.

City clearly won the window as you said. Great sales, good ins, yet again they've dominated and off the back of the treble. Painful.

Chelsea getting so much cash for players into Saudi was well done as well. Nkunku injury will probably hurt them as they were banking on him.

Liverpool ended up with a pass mark, but need to stay injury free. Grav is such a good pickup. Keen to see him in the prem and see if he can do what Donny from that same Ajax team couldn't, and make a go at it in the prem.

Arsenal did pretty good business and I'm a big fan of Rice. Like United with Mount, just don't know about the Havertz signing. Just wonder if maybe they'll regret not getting a 9.

Newcastle depth going to be really stretched with UCL and more expectations in cups. They have 0 'easy' games in UCL too. I'm surprised they didn't make more signings tbh.

Spurs lost one of the worlds best strikers and replaced him with nobody, but they got a good manager. Like Arsenal, think over the season they too might also miss a 9. Richarlison for mine is rubbish.

I will be far more harsh on United if they don't get Amrabat done. He's desperately needed. I think the way forward for them is a double pivot 4231, they need a combative physical engine next to Casemiro, not either of Mount or Eriksen. Arguably Mount would even be better on the RW than Antony.

Agree with pretty much everything else but for Cucurella . I tried to keep my ratings purely on the comings/goings rather than other internal turmoil.

LFC haven't done enough unfortunately either, I genuinely think we're a LCB away from a title challenge. Fingers crossed they do something in the next few hours.

 

[Brocko]

I will be far more harsh on United if they don't get Amrabat done. He's desperately needed. I think the way forward for them is a double pivot 4231, they need a combative physical engine next to Casemiro, not either of Mount or Eriksen. Arguably Mount would even be better on the RW than Antony.

Agree with pretty much everything else but for Cucurella . I tried to keep my ratings purely on the comings/goings rather than other internal turmoil.

LFC haven't done enough unfortunately either, I genuinely think we're a LCB away from a title challenge. Fingers crossed they do something in the next few hours.

Cucurella I am solely basing on being the best option of the ones that they were 'interested' in. He'd still be sketchy in our back 4, but at least he had quality at some point. I just don't think Regulion is even close to good enough.

I understand it's injury cover but the decision on who to get appears to have been the one they could get cheapest not the best player, thats all.

 

[The True King]

That rat Nunes.

Unfortunately this is the new reality.

City get whoever they want and when they come calling no one says no. Rennes, Leipzig and you guys all had no intention of selling those 3 players.

All three of you also had other clubs asking about them but were told no.

City get in, disrupt the player and then give whatever cash is required. In this case it's more than you'd normally get too. They've then sweetened the deal by giving you Doyle.

It's so efficient. Annoying.

Hopefully your owners spend the money to strengthen

 

[Wolfie]

Unfortunately this is the new reality.

City get whoever they want and when they come calling no one says no. Andelecht, Leipzig and you guys all had no intention of selling those 3 players.

All three of you also had other clubs asking about them but were told no.

City get in, disrupt the player and then give whatever cash is required. In this case it's more than you'd normally get too. They've then sweetened the deal by giving you Doyle.

It's so efficient. Annoying.

Hopefully your owners spend the money to strengthen

I never minded him wanting the move. We told them a price we wanted tbf, and they were still negotiating when the snake had his dummy spit. Wouldn't have phased me if he asked to be left out the team until a move was finalised. Going on strike just shows he's a bit of a low life who throws his toys out of the pram when he can't get his own way. Luckily players generally don't sink to those levels.

At least we are belatedly getting in some players. Won't be a spectacular window for us, but I'm feeling now it will be a practical one from our perspective.

 

[Brocko]

Wonder what will come of the Pacqueta stuff. I know West Ham weren't keen to sell at all but it obviously scared Citeh off.