Enough already - kick them out, permanently

[schmix]

Thing is, those loyal souths fans (all 2000 of them) won't accept anything but their own time. I think that's fine, but their team doesn't belong in the NRL. NSW Cup maybe, but not the NRL.

I would have thought the same thing about Steelers, Dragons, Wests and Balmain fans though. It did take a few years but they finally seem to have warmed to the idea that their team is actually still around.

Nashy - I'm not saying that the Sharks are necessarily a problem, but they do start every year this way and end up dying off without a whisper. I don't really think they deserve to be merged based on that, but I am just trying to come up with a solution that doesn't result in the loss of a few thousand serious rugby league tragics. Almost no joy for 20 years and they're still turning up to games? We need supporters like that.

 

[Emma]

I don't see Sharks as being a problem anymore schmix. Stuart has them playing really good footy, I think they will be a real annoyance in the finals this year to be hoenst.

It's a shame about the fans yes, but I think it's for the good of the game.

eusa_think Could have fooled me.

 

[Clintos]

I don't really care whether Souths leave or not. I'd much rather give one team the bye every week rather than this 4-6 teams around rep season crap. Souths did ok last year (better than the Broncos), but every other year has been shocking. I really don't care, and i'm really over them.

 

[Nashy]

I don't see Sharks as being a problem anymore schmix. Stuart has them playing really good footy, I think they will be a real annoyance in the finals this year to be hoenst.

Right, so you jump on someone who defends Souths based on their performance last year, but you defend the Sharks based on their performance this year.

Let's have a quick (less detailed) history lesson on the Sharks shall we.

Joined comp: 1967
Grand Finals contested: 3
Grand Finals won: Nil

Geographically their area of control is very slim. Their junior catchment is quite rich, but it's small. The club itself isn't financially strong. It stadium is boutique, but will never hold more than 20000 people.

A merger with Souths makes sense. Southern Sydney Sharks. I like.

How many finals appearances?

This is the exact reason however why I want the NRL to add more teams, and then have relegation.

 

[Coxy]

Relegation won't work in rugby league, not in Australia. Once you drop below the top tier, every decent player will be sucked into the other clubs.

The teams going up will be on a hiding to nothing. They'll have a good core of reserve graders, and might be able to buy a few first graders from the relegated side, but the chances of finishing anywhere but last is remote.

There will be insufficient sponsorship and funding for teams in the second tier, and they'll be unable to retain quality coaching staff and facilities, even for 1 year out of the top flight.

Sharks have made the finals quite regularly since the 1970s, but rarely been a serious threat. They're the oldest team in the league that have not won a title (only the Warriors, Cowboys and Titans are yet to taste premiership success apart from the Sharks). And the odds of it ever happening are remote. They never have a playing roster that's premiership material.

At least if Souths and Sharks pool their resources there's a chance they'll uncover some quality talent and retain it from their junior ranks, and hopefully attract some quality players who want to play there and want to succeed.

At the moment, both are homes for the aging or misbehaving.

 

[Nashy]

Well Sorry. Without having been a fan back all that far, I can only comment on what I've seen of them. icon_smile

I think something needs to be done, but what are the chances of something actually being done about it. They've tried it once, will they even bother with the headache again?

 

[Coxy]

Well Sorry. Without having been a fan back all that far, I can only comment on what I've seen of them.

Once again, not knowing about a subject doesn't stop you having an opinion on it :P

I think the legal minefield they went through last time was they said we have X positions available in the competition and you have to meet this set of arbitrary criteria, which had little evidence of being fair and equitable.

How can they effectively kick Souths out or force them to merge?

My guess would be to say, in similar fashion to 2000, that they will be offering 16 licenses in 2012. All clubs and new consortiums need to apply.

Decision will be made by end of 2010.

Every team needs to apply to retain their license, or earn a new one. The choice of who gets the 16 licenses is up to the discretion of the NRL.

Yes, in essence, very team is fighting for its survival under that model, but it'd make everybody stop and think how they're travelling which can only be good (albeit a bit unsettling).

 

[Nashy]

Well Sorry. Without having been a fan back all that far, I can only comment on what I've seen of them.

Once again, not knowing about a subject doesn't stop you having an opinion on it :P

I think the legal minefield they went through last time was they said we have X positions available in the competition and you have to meet this set of arbitrary criteria, which had little evidence of being fair and equitable.

How can they effectively kick Souths out or force them to merge?

My guess would be to say, in similar fashion to 2000, that they will be offering 16 licenses in 2012. All clubs and new consortiums need to apply.

Decision will be made by end of 2010.

Every team needs to apply to retain their license, or earn a new one. The choice of who gets the 16 licenses is up to the discretion of the NRL.

Yes, in essence, very team is fighting for its survival under that model, but it'd make everybody stop and think how they're travelling which can only be good (albeit a bit unsettling).

To an extent you're right there. But I have been supporting the game for the past 8 years now, so I think it's only fair. I'll do you, and only you a favour Coxy. I'll stop being a tool. Hows that for a deal?


So going by what you've said above, and mergers, would you leave the merging of clubs at the club level? Or would you have the NRL dictate mergers?

 

[Coxy]

Legally the NRL couldn't force clubs to merge. They'd just provide a compelling reason to do so.

They basically forced Manly and Norths to merge and that was a disaster.

PS: Why wasn't there more fuss made when the merger folded and Norths effectively died? They have as much history as Souths!

 

[Nashy]

Legally the NRL couldn't force clubs to merge. They'd just provide a compelling reason to do so.

They basically forced Manly and Norths to merge and that was a disaster.

PS: Why wasn't there more fuss made when the merger folded and Norths effectively died? They have as much history as Souths!

I think they were venting all their frustration towards the NRL introducing the new licence for the Gold Coast, and were going down the direction that it wasn't fair for the clubs who merged to make the comp smaller.

That maybe why we didn't hear anything about the collapse itself.

Was it a full collapse though, didn't the management remain the same at the club, they just changed the name back to the Sea-Eagles?

 

[Coxy]

Legally the NRL couldn't force clubs to merge. They'd just provide a compelling reason to do so.

They basically forced Manly and Norths to merge and that was a disaster.

PS: Why wasn't there more fuss made when the merger folded and Norths effectively died? They have as much history as Souths!

I think they were venting all their frustration towards the NRL introducing the new licence for the Gold Coast, and were going down the direction that it wasn't fair for the clubs who merged to make the comp smaller.

That maybe why we didn't hear anything about the collapse itself.

Was it a full collapse though, didn't the management remain the same at the club, they just changed the name back to the Sea-Eagles?

License reverted to be fully owned by Manly-Warringah RLFC, instead of being joint between them and North Sydney RLFC.

Norths just didn't have the high profile lobbyists that Souths recruited. The big names with big voices and big influence, despite the fact the cause has proven to be counterproductive to rugby league.

The biggest myth in our game is that "when South Sydney is strong, our game is strong". Absolute rot. Souths have been weak for 20 years, and the game has never been stronger.

Ironically the person who finally went public that the myth is a myth was none other than Phil Gould, one of the loudest and most obnoxious lobbyists trying to get them back.

A touch of irony no?

 

[Guest]

PS: Why wasn't there more fuss made when the merger folded and Norths effectively died? They have as much history as Souths!

Because rightly or wrongly they weren't percieved as "working class heroes" like Souths are/were

 

[Bucking Beads]

Souths must be moved to the Central Coast IMO. They would get a crowd and the Central Coast deserves a team. There a way too many Sydney teams as it is we could easily kill off two or three of them if Queenslander ran the NRL.

 

[schmix]

PS: Why wasn't there more fuss made when the merger folded and Norths effectively died? They have as much history as Souths!

I don't know but I was just as upset about that as Bears fans - their ground was less than 10 minutes from my house! One game a year where I didn't have to travel for at least 40 minutes each way. Why were they forced to merge in the first place? The Norths leagues club is still around and going strong as far as I know, so was it finances or something else? I still see bears stickers on some bumpers around the area.

 

[Coxy]

PS: Why wasn't there more fuss made when the merger folded and Norths effectively died? They have as much history as Souths!

I don't know but I was just as upset about that as Bears fans - their ground was less than 10 minutes from my house! One game a year where I didn't have to travel for at least 40 minutes each way. Why were they forced to merge in the first place? The Norths leagues club is still around and going strong as far as I know, so was it finances or something else? I still see bears stickers on some bumpers around the area.

They paid for their own initiative. They had already committed to moving to the Central Coast and had foot the bill for the development of Gosford Stadium. However, in the meantime they had NO crowd at home, and had for some inexplicable reason decided to leave North Sydney oval before their new stadium was finished. So they had no crowds, no gate takings...finances went up the crapper. By the time they realised Gosford wasn't going to be ready in time and moved back to NSO, too late.

They failed at the first hurdle of the criteria - financial viability. They were bankrupt. So they were 17th out of 17 and never a chance of staying in the competition.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Most Hated back row in the comp for sure..

 

[gUt]

And only 1 prop! [icon_lol1.

 

[Coxy]

And only 1 prop! [icon_lol1.

Souths are the pride of the league, passion will let them win with 12 players ;-)