Game Two

[QUEENSLANDER]

Are you serious? A few years ago fans like you were laughing at NSW because they kept changing their team when they should have been sticking with the same team.

Im not asking for wholesale changes like NSW do mate. Im suggesting Gillett out for Papalii / Napa and possibly giving gagai a run in game 3 (although i am in no way saying that will even remotely happen, if boyd had not been fit we wouldve seen gagai in game 1 and we all agree hes underdone atm, so wouldnt be a bad idea). Cannot even compare that to wholesale changes NSW do and im surprised you are even doing that tbh

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

My car runs well with the battery I have in it, of course I could put in a newer battery with a longer life and stronger casing. The car would be marginally improved but it wouldn't run any better so why did I do it ? Look, I totally understand that if you are not improving then you are going backward( although that is open to debate ) The only way everyone retires is if everyone is the same age and all breakdown simultaneously ! We have always had players step up and that will continue. If Ma n Pa are good enough and are required they will get a chance . No good trying to convince me ,ring Mal, at least he can do something about it, I'm happy to leave the team selection and player progressions to him, he has form in that job !

Good analogy, but to me it would be more like putting a new exhaust on your car to get a tiny bit more power. Actually makes the car run better! Either way, im not pushing the gagai thing coz it wont actually happen, but the gillett -> Ma or Pa definitely has merit.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

TBF Gagai has been 'carving up' weak defense, he certainly didn't carve us up and I am pretty confident that NSW defense will be better than ours

Fair call, but he still broke our line 2 times and made 19 hitups. Great work rate and thats one thing the left side of QLD lacked in game 1 this year.

edit: i apologise for not just quoting all 3 posts in 1 of my posts, my bad

 

[Big Pete]

while gillett did his usual hard line run but forgetting to catch the ball, and also bombed a certain try.

The pass from McGuire was terrible. Gillett had already passed McGuire by when Josh decided to throw it, to blame Matt is just asinine. I agree on the bomb try but then it wasn't an easy opportunity either and most players would have struggled to convert it. I didn't want Gillett in the side before Origin I either but he came up with two big tackles to force repeat sets and offers more versatility than the other options. Cutting him wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but it's far from a black and white call.

I wouldnt mind seeing gagai get a run on the wing over boyd

Let me try to follow your logic here. For the past seven years, Boyd has been extremely consistent for Queensland, rarely put a foot wrong and has converted the big play when he's been called on. So let's replace him for a player who predominately plays on the other side of the field, struggles to play consistent football and is awful out of dummy half. That doesn't make any sense and you'd be better off throwing a Valentine Holmes there than a Dane Gagai.

 

[john1420]

I wouldn't be upset to see Big Papa in for Gillette

 

[Black Philip]

In 2016 I can see Papa in for Gillett and Napa in for Lilyman, but for the sake of not rocking the boat I think we stick with incumbents for this series.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

In 2016 I can see Papa in for Gillett and Napa in for Lilyman, but for the sake of not rocking the boat I think we stick with incumbents for this series.

Thing is, we will win this year and then Gillett and Lillyman will get picked again "because they were part of the winning squad". Same reason they keep getting picked now.

 

[Fozz]

If Mal doesn't change winning teams then why wasn't dave taylor in the squad?

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

If Mal doesn't change winning teams then why wasn't dave taylor in the squad?

Dave taylor only made game 2 last year because Cronk was out injured, moving DCE to the starting 13, opening a bench spot. He kept his spot in game 3 because matt scott was injured, moving lillyman to the starting team, leaving a bench spot open for him to retain.

Having said that, obviously he will occassionally drop people, but it seems that gillett is not going to be one of those ppl based on his performances thus far and the fact he is still there.

 

[Black Philip]

Thing is, we will win this year and then Gillett and Lillyman will get picked again "because they were part of the winning squad". Same reason they keep getting picked now.

I think that's the best case scenario though, unless we get smashed in game 2 Mal probably won't make a change. Since Lilyman is 31 and nothing flash I think he will be the one who makes way for Napa.

 

[Porthoz]

Dave taylor only made game 2 last year because Cronk was out injured, moving DCE to the starting 13, opening a bench spot. He kept his spot in game 3 because matt scott was injured, moving lillyman to the starting team, leaving a bench spot open for him to retain.

Having said that, obviously he will occassionally drop people, but it seems that gillett is not going to be one of those ppl based on his performances thus far and the fact he is still there.

Probably because he is actually doing the job he was asked to do, as opposed to what you would like to see happening.

You want Pappa in, just to see him flatten a few NSW'kers.
While there's nothing wrong with that, and it is quite a pleasing image, it's not what Gillett is there for. He won't deliver those big hits or barnstorming runs (which are very rare nowadays anyway), he is agile, much faster, and has much better ball playing skills.

P.S. Blaming Gillett for the dropped ball is just highlighting your bias, as all the blame should go to the passer (this goes for his Origin dropped ball as well), and while he could have done better on the bombed try, the bounce was very unfavourable.

Btw, I cannot fathom how anyone would want to replace Boyd in Origin, much less for a walking turnstile like Gagai. This is coming from a guy who doesn't rate Boyd that highly at FB, but can't fault him on the wing, where he has been excellent in the rep arena.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Probably because he is actually doing the job he was asked to do, as opposed to what you would like to see happening.

You want Pappa in, just to see him flatten a few NSW'kers.
While there's nothing wrong with that, and it is quite a pleasing image, it's not what Gillett is there for. He won't deliver those big hits or barnstorming runs (which are very rare nowadays anyway), he is agile, much faster, and has much better ball playing skills.

P.S. Blaming Gillett for the dropped ball is just highlighting your bias, as all the blame should go to the passer (this goes for his Origin dropped ball as well), and while he could have done better on the bombed try, the bounce was very unfavourable.

Btw, I cannot fathom how anyone would want to replace Boyd in Origin, much less for a walking turnstile like Gagai. This is coming from a guy who doesn't rate Boyd that highly at FB, but can't fault him on the wing, where he has been excellent in the rep arena.

I feel like people's need to disagree with me makes them over zealous in their arguments against me, but ill try and not let that interfere.

1. I do not have a "bias" or "agenda" against gillett more than i do against anyone that is not performing. If McQueen was picked I would be saying the same thing. Gillett is not playing well enough for the broncos to warrant qld selection. Simple. I dont want to see Papa there purely to flatten out nsw (altho that would be great and he does bring that to the table). You are definitely making assumptions on why i want papalii there. I want papalii there because his form over the last 5 - 6 weeks has been amazing. he has been running great lines, he has set up several tries with fantastic offloads and his defence has been superb. He is looker fitter and faster than he was at the start of the season and i think he deserves his spot. Gilletts role in origin has been limited and very basic, and there is no reason papalii could not do that and bring the upside of his brutal hits along with it.

also, while the passes were not great to gillett (mcguires especially), and i do acknowledge that, you cannot argue that he has a habit of dropping the ball A LOT. at least once a game he will run that same line and drop it. he has very poor ball handling this year, and again, its not up to the standard one expects of a qld rep.
The pass from vidot to gillett should have been picked up, and i believe most players (except maybe dave taylor) would have taken it.

2. I am not suggesting we replace boyd, but i was simply dropping the idea that if we needed to replace boyd for whatever reason, gagai would be an interesting option based on form. If we have game 2 in the bag and boyd is looking rough still, sure it would be good to blood gagai, but it wont happen, it was just a nice little thought in my head. Boyd is clearly underdone, and if mal decided that his performance in game 1 was not up to scratch (it wasnt FTR) then i would love to see gagai get a run. You would be surprised but since boyd's selection in game 1 i have constantly been defending him to my friends and family. They questioned why he would be picked after only playing 2 games and i said "he is a safe option who has never let us down" over and over. I stand by that, but that is only if he is fit. I dont believe he is playing at his peak fitness right now, so if the maroons wanted someone that is, gagai is that man.

 

[Big Pete]

The pass from vidot to gillett should have been picked up, and i believe most players (except maybe dave taylor) would have taken it.

Rubbish.

It wasn't even a boot-laces grab, the ball was thrown behind a sprinting support player who had to try and pick it up off the bounce. Only a select few would have made it work...especially in the backrow.

 

[Unbreakable]

Yeah we shouldn't really be blaming Gillett too much for that drop on Saturday, but still, in general he's been below par.

 

[Financeguy]

I want papalii there because his form over the last 5 - 6 weeks has been amazing. he has been running great lines, he has set up several tries with fantastic offloads and his defence has been superb.

Meh, he has what, maybe 2 try assists in the last 6 weeks?

If picked, his role in Origin is not primarily try assists, it is tackling and running, both of which Gillett has averaged more than Papali in your 5-6 week time frame.

I just don't think Gillett is going bad enough to warrant dropping for game 2, especially with Qld getting the victory in game 1.

 

[Porthoz]

I feel like people's need to disagree with me makes them over zealous in their arguments against me, but ill try and not let that interfere.

1. I do not have a "bias" or "agenda" against gillett more than i do against anyone that is not performing. If McQueen was picked I would be saying the same thing. Gillett is not playing well enough for the broncos to warrant qld selection. Simple. I dont want to see Papa there purely to flatten out nsw (altho that would be great and he does bring that to the table). You are definitely making assumptions on why i want papalii there. I want papalii there because his form over the last 5 - 6 weeks has been amazing. he has been running great lines, he has set up several tries with fantastic offloads and his defence has been superb. He is looker fitter and faster than he was at the start of the season and i think he deserves his spot. Gilletts role in origin has been limited and very basic, and there is no reason papalii could not do that and bring the upside of his brutal hits along with it.

also, while the passes were not great to gillett (mcguires especially), and i do acknowledge that, you cannot argue that he has a habit of dropping the ball A LOT. at least once a game he will run that same line and drop it. he has very poor ball handling this year, and again, its not up to the standard one expects of a qld rep.
The pass from vidot to gillett should have been picked up, and i believe most players (except maybe dave taylor) would have taken it.

2. I am not suggesting we replace boyd, but i was simply dropping the idea that if we needed to replace boyd for whatever reason, gagai would be an interesting option based on form. If we have game 2 in the bag and boyd is looking rough still, sure it would be good to blood gagai, but it wont happen, it was just a nice little thought in my head. Boyd is clearly underdone, and if mal decided that his performance in game 1 was not up to scratch (it wasnt FTR) then i would love to see gagai get a run. You would be surprised but since boyd's selection in game 1 i have constantly been defending him to my friends and family. They questioned why he would be picked after only playing 2 games and i said "he is a safe option who has never let us down" over and over. I stand by that, but that is only if he is fit. I dont believe he is playing at his peak fitness right now, so if the maroons wanted someone that is, gagai is that man.

Let's agree to completely disagree on both points.

You say you don't have a bias against Gillett, and yet the way you're trying to emphasise his little errors and use hyperbole to describe his footy says otherwise. Your example about the Vidot offload is telling... as like BP said, very few people would've caught that ball, and almost all of those who might have, would be backline players.

He hasn't been dropping balls as you say, he did that twice in the last 2 games due to horrible passes he had almost no chance of holding on to, he has been tackling and defending much better than Papalii (a reminder that great hits do not equal superb defense), and Papalii's lateral movement deficiencies have been on display more than once, which ironically was one of Gillett's issues.

My problem is that people are saying that Gillett has not been playing well enough, and I call bullshit, because he has been doing what is asked of him, fixed his defensive issues, and is not being used to his potential in attack.
Same thing can be said about his Origin usage. I would dare say that with Papalii, we wouldn't have kept NSW pinned in their half and earning repeat sets the way we did with Gillett's kick chase for example.

Could he be better? Undoubtedly, and I'm sure no one knows that better than himself, Wayne and Mal, but I personally believe that Wayne wants to make sure he irons out his defensive problems before unleashing him in attack, while waiting for the spine to start gelling better and take more advantage of the weapons on offer in our second row.

As to Gagai... he wouldn't be my first, second or even third choice to replace Boyd if need be. I don't think you can carry such a defensive weakness in an Origin squad. You know how I feel about Maranta, and I would have him there before Dane!

 

[Unbreakable]

Meninga is one that rewards loyalty a fair bit, I genuinely hope he takes major offence to what DCE has done to the Titans and doesn't pick him for the next couple of years.

 

[Super Freak]

I'm hoping this is a repeat of 1995.

The last time QLD went to MCG looking to secure a series win after winning the first game.