CRICKET General Cricket Discussion - 2023/24

[BroncsFan]

I have thought Can Green should be 5 for a while so 100%. Travis suits the 6 a bit more in that he moves the innings along a bit more. He can adapt to the innings the best for me. Whereas Cam likes to bat in a big partnership manner and go for a timely big score. He can do that better with Smith, Labuschagne, Warner and Khawaja rather than Travis who usually is there for a good time rather than a long time. For mine Can Green looks more likely to get a 50+ score than any of the other batters in the middle order and for mine whilst Labuschagne and Smith aren’t carrying their weight he holds together our batting order a bit better at 5 than instead of spending most his time at the crease with Carey and the bowlers. For mine it makes zero sense to have Khawaja, Warner, Smith and Labuschagne who like to build a big innings than to go to Head who is so versatile in the way he can formulate an innings at 5 than bounce back to Green at 6 who likes to build his innings like the top order do. Innings has no continuity for mine. Something I speak passionately on because I believe he should be in the middle-top order in the ODI side as well. They are looking at him with to strong of a mindset that he is a all-rounder and the low-middle order is where he belongs. Bull shit. He needs to be up higher and given the time to thrive cause far out he is so promising and he has monster totals at the top of the order in shield. Just a waste.

All we need is for the Smith and Labuschagne and Warner to a lesser extent (just needs to refocus on being ruthless and not throwing his wicket away when he has his foot on their throat) to pull there fingers out of there asses.

Green also has that next gear where he can start bludgeoning it out of the ground. I don't consider that his "natural game" but he has the power to do it when he's deeper into his innings.

If he was out there batting with the top order and had already moved beyond 100 by the time the lower order comes out you'd feel that he would eventually flick the switch and just start flaying the bowling unit around the ground.

Green is actually almost perfect for a no. 4 or 5 in the current setup:
- Can bat slow and steady with the top order to build a score and solidify the innings
- Can bat quickly once set with a lower order that primarily comprises hitters (Head, Carey/Inglis, Starc, etc.)
- Has the stamina, patience and composure to bat long innings


On Marnus I think at the moment his patience is what's letting him down. In this game it made sense to just keep going because in those conditions there is a ball out there with your name on it, so make hay while the sun shines... but in Pakistan he was just playing recklessly the whole time and finding ways to get out.

At the moment Uzzie and Green are basically playing as the anchors of the innings, and we've been lucky that they've stepped up, but Marnus has the tools to be our long term anchor and he just needs to figure out how best to balance occupying the crease and scoring runs... at the moment he's all about making runs... every innings he's almost in counter attack mode.

 

[Sproj]

Australia is in a bit of trouble with openers. Both Warner and Khawaja are 35 and don't have long left. Hunt looks serviceable but Ward fell off a bit last season. Renshaw just cannot seem to bat at 1 or 2 anymore (though decent in the middle order). Pucovski is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO important moving forward.

Fill in the blanks:

1.
2.
3. Labushagne (his form drop has to be a little worrying, though obviously he has bought himself a LONG time here to sought it out)
4. Smith (he is getting on now too and seems to be following the great Aussie tradition of falling off a cliff once turning 32, hopefully he can buck this trend)
5. Green (he can certainly but anywhere from 3-6 in the event Smith retires or Labs continues his downward trend in a year or three)
6. Head
7. Carey (his batting has come on nicely so credit to him but his keeping is still really poor, seems another Matthew Wade at the moment but he is making contributions so he has done enough to stay)
8. Cummins (Obviously a lock)
9. Starc (32 now, history suggests bowlers only have 1 or 2 years left at this point)
10. Lyon (He could keep going for another 2-3 years)
11. Hazlewood (Has another 3-4 years left I'd say)

So Australia need to start succession planning positions 1, 2, 4, 7, 9, 10, 11

Who fills those spots?

 

[BroncsFan]

Australia is in a bit of trouble with openers. Both Warner and Khawaja are 35 and don't have long left. Hunt looks serviceable but Ward fell off a bit last season. Renshaw just cannot seem to bat at 1 or 2 anymore (though decent in the middle order). Pucovski is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO important moving forward.

Waits for stupid media calls to "move Marnus to open" so they can shoehorn "unnamed NSW/Vic player into the middle order"

 

[Sproj]

Waits for stupid media calls to "move Marnus to open" so they can shoehorn "unnamed NSW/Vic player into the middle order"

Jason Sanggha clearly, the Aussie Crawley/Hameed.

 

[Fitzy]

Head at home.

17 Tests 1197 runs at 49- 4 100's, 6 50's.

Head away

10 Tests 387 runs at 25- 2 50's

The thing I worry about is that our test batting lineup is too permanent. Look 100% we have a series in Australia Head bats for us. But we are in the sub continent and we have a bloke who has an average of 25 overseas and 2 50’s batting 5. I am hesitant to even give him the 6. But every movement that happens in our side is viewed as a demotion, promotion or a sign that you are on the outer.

Look we need to be ruthless and for mine we need more blokes to be genuinely in the conversation for away test matches especially. Glenn Maxwell for example is perfect to be playing that 6 role in the sub continent. He is the epitome of a sub-continental batter and he is a finger spinner that relieves the need to have 2 quicks and 2 bowlers. Obviously Sweppo got the job done the other day but there sure as shit are still doubts. We have 4 world class quicks (ScoBo has entered that group for mine, dominated in Aus A as well) yet we are playing 2 and arguably we would do just as well with the other 2.

For mine we have a number of batters who deserve the opportunity to have a test or two for some experience and to see what level they are at. Cause it’s not like they are firing on all cylinders at the moment. It is quite a disjointed and dysfunctional batting group that really is being held together by individual efforts from Khawaja with inconsistent inputs from Green, Carey, Head and Warner. Whilst the two biggest in stature are doing **** all. Need to put some pressure on them somehow cause they need to pull there fucken heads in. I’m sick of watching them play like shit and they will capitulate against India and even someone like South Africa who have a decent bowling attack shaping up.

- Phillipe
- Maxwell
- Maddinson
- Renshaw
- Hardie
- Hunt
- Marsh

Look I’m not saying they are all demanding selection but for mine Phillipe (as a batter, his glove work means shit all to me in red ball cricket I like Carey at this stage), Maxwell and Hardie should probably be getting look ins over the next 12 months. Maxwell as soon as next game. He could be a real feature for the test team in sub continent tours in the future if it proved successful. We are also definitely able to beat Sri Lanka without Travis Head for a game and with Maxwell.

 

[Sproj]

The thing I worry about is that our test batting lineup is too permanent. Look 100% we have a series in Australia Head bats for us. But we are in the sub continent and we have a bloke who has an average of 25 overseas and 2 50’s batting 5. I am hesitant to even give him the 6. But every movement that happens in our side is viewed as a demotion, promotion or a sign that you are on the outer.

Look we need to be ruthless and for mine we need more blokes to be genuinely in the conversation for away test matches especially. Glenn Maxwell for example is perfect to be playing that 6 role in the sub continent. He is the epitome of a sub-continental batter and he is a finger spinner that relieves the need to have 2 quicks and 2 bowlers. Obviously Sweppo got the job done the other day but there sure as shit are still doubts. We have 4 world class quicks (ScoBo has entered that group for mine, dominated in Aus A as well) yet we are playing 2 and arguably we would do just as well with the other 2.

For mine we have a number of batters who deserve the opportunity to have a test or two for some experience and to see what level they are at. Cause it’s not like they are firing on all cylinders at the moment. It is quite a disjointed and dysfunctional batting group that really is being held together by individual efforts from Khawaja with inconsistent inputs from Green, Carey, Head and Warner. Whilst the two biggest in stature are doing **** all. Need to put some pressure on them somehow cause they need to pull there fucken heads in. I’m sick of watching them play like shit and they will capitulate against India and even someone like South Africa who have a decent bowling attack shaping up.

- Phillipe
- Maxwell
- Maddinson
- Renshaw
- Hardie
- Hunt
- Marsh

Look I’m not saying they are all demanding selection but for mine Phillipe (as a batter, his glove work means shit all to me in red ball cricket I like Carey at this stage), Maxwell and Hardie should probably be getting look ins over the next 12 months. Maxwell as soon as next game. He could be a real feature for the test team in sub continent tours in the future if it proved successful. We are also definitely able to beat Sri Lanka without Travis Head for a game and with Maxwell.

I get where you are coming from but I am still a fan of the test side being a privilege and not a rotation team based on conditions. Potentially, based on this theory, Green might not have played in Pakistan or in this test as a result.

 

[Fitzy]

I get where you are coming from but I am still a fan of the test side being a privilege and not a rotation team based on conditions. Potentially, based on this theory, Green might not have played in Pakistan or in this test as a result.

I’m not saying every single one of them deserve to play this minute. But let’s say tomorrow Head gets injured or Khawaja or anyone of our batters. Those blokes are up. It’s Henry Hunt or Glenn Maxwell not to mention 4/7 of those blokes already have a baggy green sitting in there bags or back at home. These blokes are the next ones up and to take 3 of them, 2 of which I believe are the most promising and arguably highest performing batters in shield and suggest it’s just handing away a spot is on the ludicrous side. And if you are of the belief that the next 3 up aren’t up to the standard than we have more issues than the sanctity and privilege of the baggy green. I don’t think all 7 should find themselves in the test side that was just a group who are there abouts, quite honestly if we found Marsh, Renshaw and Maddinson in the side I would be furious unless they put there hand up a bit more but they are thereabouts. We are talking about 3 blokes getting a run in the next 12 months (Maxwell, Hardie, Phillipe). There are countries that go through 10 Bateman in one 3 game series. I personally don’t think that is negating it’s status as a privilege. There my next 3 up and obviously Henry Hunt is the next option at opener. I can’t see how these blokes are 1 injury away yet it would be such a disrespect to the baggy green for them to get a game as a reward if the opportunity and the tactics were right behind there selection. They have earned the right for mine to have a game. Maxwell has been through dominating for this country in other formats all around the world and proved successful for Australia when he was in the red ball team. Whilst Phillipe and Hardie just won the Sheffield Shield being 2 of the most instrumental pieces to that whilst essentially being 2 optimal pieces to Australia’s future in red ball cricket. I’m happy to agree with you to an extent but for these 3 I am very against your opinion when our batting lineup is not firing how I would like it to be over the last 18 months.

 

[Fernando]

Game starts and Fox are still showing replays and ads. The coverage has been shithouse all test.

 

[Sproj]

I’m not saying every single one of them deserve to play this minute. But let’s say tomorrow Head gets injured or Khawaja or anyone of our batters. Those blokes are up. It’s Henry Hunt or Glenn Maxwell not to mention 4/7 of those blokes already have a baggy green sitting in there bags or back at home. These blokes are the next ones up and to take 3 of them, 2 of which I believe are the most promising and arguably highest performing batters in shield and suggest it’s just handing away a spot is on the ludicrous side. And if you are of the belief that the next 3 up aren’t up to the standard than we have more issues than the sanctity and privilege of the baggy green. I don’t think all 7 should find themselves in the test side that was just a group who are there abouts, quite honestly if we found Marsh, Renshaw and Maddinson in the side I would be furious unless they put there hand up a bit more but they are thereabouts. We are talking about 3 blokes getting a run in the next 12 months (Maxwell, Hardie, Phillipe). There are countries that go through 10 Bateman in one 3 game series. I personally don’t think that is negating it’s status as a privilege. There my next 3 up and obviously Henry Hunt is the next option at opener. I can’t see how these blokes are 1 injury away yet it would be such a disrespect to the baggy green for them to get a game as a reward if the opportunity and the tactics were right behind there selection. They have earned the right for mine to have a game. Maxwell has been through dominating for this country in other formats all around the world and proved successful for Australia when he was in the red ball team. Whilst Phillipe and Hardie just won the Sheffield Shield being 2 of the most instrumental pieces to that whilst essentially being 2 optimal pieces to Australia’s future in red ball cricket. I’m happy to agree with you to an extent but for these 3 I am very against your opinion when our batting lineup is not firing how I would like it to be over the last 18 months.

I am not against that but that was not my understanding of your initial post. I think there is a bit of a caveat though as well because I think it does depend a bit on other factors. If you have a young dude who has been setting the world on fire for 2 FC matches (Sandhu did this as an example and I understand this is not what you are suggesting), he should not be rushed into the side. However, if you have a Boland / Pattinson or Neser sitting around who have great records over a long period of time, then sure use them when needed. In terms of batsmen though, Australia does not have anyone with a decent record over long enough to warrant getting a gig over someone like Head unless of course it is Maxwell (and I would not necessarily be against this) BUT that said, Head did pretty well in the OD series in SL before he was injured too. You also do need to build a bit for the future. Let's not forget, three of the top four in this current side are all getting on too, so they are going to need Head, Labs and Green to really step up in the not too distant future.

 

[Big Del]

I’m not saying every single one of them deserve to play this minute. But let’s say tomorrow Head gets injured or Khawaja or anyone of our batters. Those blokes are up. It’s Henry Hunt or Glenn Maxwell not to mention 4/7 of those blokes already have a baggy green sitting in there bags or back at home. These blokes are the next ones up and to take 3 of them, 2 of which I believe are the most promising and arguably highest performing batters in shield and suggest it’s just handing away a spot is on the ludicrous side. And if you are of the belief that the next 3 up aren’t up to the standard than we have more issues than the sanctity and privilege of the baggy green. I don’t think all 7 should find themselves in the test side that was just a group who are there abouts, quite honestly if we found Marsh, Renshaw and Maddinson in the side I would be furious unless they put there hand up a bit more but they are thereabouts. We are talking about 3 blokes getting a run in the next 12 months (Maxwell, Hardie, Phillipe). There are countries that go through 10 Bateman in one 3 game series. I personally don’t think that is negating it’s status as a privilege. There my next 3 up and obviously Henry Hunt is the next option at opener. I can’t see how these blokes are 1 injury away yet it would be such a disrespect to the baggy green for them to get a game as a reward if the opportunity and the tactics were right behind there selection. They have earned the right for mine to have a game. Maxwell has been through dominating for this country in other formats all around the world and proved successful for Australia when he was in the red ball team. Whilst Phillipe and Hardie just won the Sheffield Shield being 2 of the most instrumental pieces to that whilst essentially being 2 optimal pieces to Australia’s future in red ball cricket. I’m happy to agree with you to an extent but for these 3 I am very against your opinion when our batting lineup is not firing how I would like it to be over the last 18 months.

Paragraphs are good ?

 

[Fitzy]

I am not against that but that was not my understanding of your initial post. I think there is a bit of a caveat though as well because I think it does depend a bit on other factors. If you have a young dude who has been setting the world on fire for 2 FC matches (Sandhu did this as an example and I understand this is not what you are suggesting), he should not be rushed into the side. However, if you have a Boland / Pattinson or Neser sitting around who have great records over a long period of time, then sure use them when needed. In terms of batsmen though, Australia does not have anyone with a decent record over long enough to warrant getting a gig over someone like Head unless of course it is Maxwell (and I would not necessarily be against this) BUT that said, Head did pretty well in the OD series in SL before he was injured too. You also do need to build a bit for the future. Let's not forget, three of the top four in this current side are all getting on too, so they are going to need Head, Labs and Green to really step up in the not too distant future.

Australia has an empty generation of batters. That has been hidden up with by Labuschagne’s emergence and Travis being able to perform long enough to keep his spot out of question. We took Warner and Smith out of this team and we couldn’t turn to anyone. Khawaja was our standout in ODI and Tests. Nic Maddinson shits the bed with every opportunity he has had. Our veterans are over the bridge and the blokes scoring 100’s have either already proven they can’t make the jump to this level, are to old, or are to fresh. The 25 and under group have to step up quicker cause there isn’t really anyone between smith and heads age bracket who have proven they could be a definite option as depth or to play full stop. White ball cricket did that to us, money is in white ball cricket and we lost a generation to that. We are making up for that now and you will see that the blokes who are next up are all previous failures and or young blokes who are killing it. I love the tradition but quite frankly we can’t rely on the 26 year old plus players to get us out of this cause they just haven’t done shit at Shield level and for those who have they completely shit the bed at test level. Our best batting options are keepers and all rounders. Our batting stocks have taken a hit and as such yoh can’t really use borderline unprecedented quick bowling stocks to compare what sort of batters should be being picked. We will be sorry if Hardie, Phillipe, Sangha and Hunt don’t get a couple games of test cricket before the current crop of players who have kept us on top retire or get to the wrong side of the form/age ratio bracket.

I’m sorry but really Phillipe, Hardie, Maxwell and lesser of an extent Sangha are the only players out there who consistently enough perform at Shield level and haven’t already shat the bed at test level. Untraditional approaches will need to be taken and it makes it so much harder to understand why we are going into such a crucial transitional period with for mine such an underwhelming head coach.

 

[Fitzy]

Paragraphs are good ?

So is cake. Doesn’t mean you are going to get it.

 

[BroncsFan]

Lyon and Sweppo with a quick wicket each to start things off... spin, when landed correctly, is looking impossible to play on this pitch

 

[Sproj]

Australia has an empty generation of batters. That has been hidden up with by Labuschagne’s emergence and Travis being able to perform long enough to keep his spot out of question. We took Warner and Smith out of this team and we couldn’t turn to anyone. Khawaja was our standout in ODI and Tests. Nic Maddinson shits the bed with every opportunity he has had. Our veterans are over the bridge and the blokes scoring 100’s have either already proven they can’t make the jump to this level, are to old, or are to fresh. The 25 and under group have to step up quicker cause there isn’t really anyone between smith and heads age bracket who have proven they could be a definite option as depth or to play full stop. White ball cricket did that to us, money is in white ball cricket and we lost a generation to that. We are making up for that now and you will see that the blokes who are next up are all previous failures and or young blokes who are killing it. I love the tradition but quite frankly we can’t rely on the 26 year old plus players to get us out of this cause they just haven’t done shit at Shield level and for those who have they completely shit the bed at test level. Our best batting options are keepers and all rounders. Our batting stocks have taken a hit and as such yoh can’t really use borderline unprecedented quick bowling stocks to compare what sort of batters should be being picked. We will be sorry if Hardie, Phillipe, Sangha and Hunt don’t get a couple games of test cricket before the current crop of players who have kept us on top retire or get to the wrong side of the form/age ratio bracket.

I’m sorry but really Phillipe, Hardie, Maxwell and lesser of an extent Sangha are the only players out there who consistently enough perform at Shield level and haven’t already shat the bed at test level. Untraditional approaches will need to be taken and it makes it so much harder to understand why we are going into such a crucial transitional period with for mine such an underwhelming head coach.

I'm not really sure the point you are trying to make now but I am enjoying the conversation. I think the batsmen are coming through, we just need to be patient and most players probably don't debut/consistently get spots at test level these days until they are about 25 or even older. You do get the exceptions of course with the likes of Cummins, Green, etc but they are few and far between and are generally showing something exceptional.

This is a reason I think Pucovski is so important, he is the one guy consistently putting up scores when available, though 'when available' is less often than it should be. Then, I think the next best group are keepers or all rounders but even then, how many are actually really performing consistently?

Phillippe looks like he is starting to become more consistent. I really rate Inglis as both a bat and gloveman, he'd be in the next two or three in line, even as a batsman. Sangha looks like he SHOULD be consistent but he just isn't sadly, hopefully he will be eventually. Hardie looks the part and he is starting to put a record together, so get him around the squad but not playing unless one of the guys in the top 7 warrants dropping which currently, none of them do.

So after all this back and forth, basically the only batsman you could argue that could replace Head really is Maxwell and he is in the squad but even then, he hasn't played FC in like 3/4/5 years? Would he do better than Head given those factors?

 

[Sproj]

This is really showing just how good that innings from Green was yesterday.

 

[BroncsFan]

This is really showing just how good that innings from Green was yesterday.

The entire Green and Carey partnership was huge.

Australia were teetering when Carey came to the crease... if he gets out cheaply then Green's innings doesn't even happen.

Rather than just nurdling it around he pulled together a 45 at basically a run-a-ball... and sets a tempo which Green follows

 

[BroncsFan]

So you can just force a review by standing your ground????

He's bloody middled it... bloke should cop a fine or something for refusing to accept the umpire's decision

 

[Sproj]

Sweppo looks like he's got his second.