Hunt Signs with St George Illawarra

[Unbreakable]

The conclusion I think we should take from this - where the **** is Thurston and why the **** aren't we doing whatever it is the Cowboys are doing?

Oh, and Hunt's tackling in 2016 was shit. Anyone got the 2015 stats? I swear he wasn't always that bad.

2015 - (Halves with 500+ tackles made)

Ben Hunt - 548 made, 73 missed ~ 13.3% of tackles missed
Jack Bird - 575 made, 52 missed ~ 9.0% of tackles missed
Daly Cherry-Evans - 525 made, 37 missed ~ 7.0% of tackles missed
Blake Green - 548 made, 37 missed ~ 6.7% of tackles missed

Not as bad

 

[Dash]

2015 - (Halves with 500+ tackles made)

Ben Hunt - 548 made, 73 missed ~ 13.3% of tackles missed
Jack Bird - 575 made, 52 missed ~ 9.0% of tackles missed
Daly Cherry-Evans - 525 made, 37 missed ~ 7.0% of tackles missed
Blake Green - 548 made, 37 missed ~ 6.7% of tackles missed

Not as bad

Hmm... still not great. Gee he makes a lot of tackles though. The only one who's even come close over the last 2 years is Blake Green.

 

[Unbreakable]

Hmm... still not great. Gee he makes a lot of tackles though. The only one who's even come close over the last 2 years is Blake Green.

You're right that he does make a lot, but it's worth noting that he generally plays more games than most of the other halves as well (Never gets injured, dropped, picked for rep teams.. and because we've made the Semi / GF in the last 2 years, extra games)

For comparison DCE had 171 less tackles than Hunt in 2016, but also played in 7 less games.

 

[mieko]

I'd give him a chance to show what he can do at halfback. My preference would be to sign Ata Hingano though.

Who is this Ata Hingano fella? Names floating around here a bit.

 

[Renegade]

just the latest buzzword. it was lolohea for a little bit until everyone came to their senses, it'll be the same with this dude.

 

[Cult]

Somebody once told me to have my facts 100% correct before commenting on players, I took that to heart, here is a list of all players in 2016 with 400+ tackles made, alongside their missed tackle %. Tell me more about Hunt's great defence. Oh and don't forget to throw in the part about him defending alongside the best defensive backrower in the game.

Ben Hunt - 582 made, 99 missed ~ 17.0% of tackles are missed
Moses Mbye - 464 made, 71 missed ~ 15.3% of tackles are missed
Josh Reynolds - 449 made, 68 missed ~ 15.1% of tackles are missed
Chad Townsend - 626 made, 61 missed ~ 9.7% of tackles are missed
Blake Green - 504 made, 49 missed ~ 9.7% of tackles are missed
Cooper Cronk - 434 made, 42 missed ~ 9.6% of tackles are missed
Daly Cherry-Evans - 411 made, 39 missed ~ 9.4% of tackles are missed

Still not within 100 tackles. Also I must have missed those games where Reynolds and Green played number 7. Anywayyyy, my point is that in defense Hunt is a step above the Nikorimas. Are you disputing that?

 

[Unbreakable]

Still not within 100 tackles. Also I must have missed those games where Reynolds and Green played number 7. Anywayyyy, my point is that in defense Hunt is a step above the Nikorimas. Are you disputing that?

Oh so now there's a large enough discrepancy between defending at Five-Eighth and defending at Halfback to cause a 7%+ increase in missed tackles per season.. I'm learning new things every day. It's the exact same defensive role, just on the opposite side of the field, they both defend at 3rd man in. And by the way, I debunked that whole "But.. Hunt makes so many more tackles!" theory quite a while back, he played more games than anyone in the list of players that made 400+ tackles apart from Chad Townsend. For example, Cherry-Evans played 7 less games but only amassed 171 less tackles overall, in fact Cherry-Evans (21.6) only averaged 0.8 tackles less per game than Hunt (22.4) in 2016, and made 47.4% fewer missed tackles per game in doing so. (Hunt 3.8 per game, Cherry-Evans 2.0 per game)

In regards to your claim that Kodi Nikorima & Jayden Nikorima are a step below Ben Hunt in the defense department, we don't have a large enough sample size of them defending in the halves to answer that question categorically. But I will oblige regardless and present their defensive statistics from 2016.

Kodi made 253 tackles, 15 missed ~ 5.9% of tackles are missed
Jayden made 122 tackles, 14 missed ~ 11.4% of tackles are missed

 

[Nashy]

You're right that he does make a lot, but it's worth noting that he generally plays more games than most of the other halves as well (Never gets injured, dropped, picked for rep teams.. and because we've made the Semi / GF in the last 2 years, extra games)

For comparison DCE had 171 less tackles than Hunt in 2016, but also played in 7 less games.

I'd also give him more credit for some of those misses. A lot of the time he's tacking a block twice his size, and getting bumped off. But usually slowing them down enough for our big boys to come and smash the player.

 

[BroncsFan]

No he isn't! Like I said this will be there 3rd season together, what better way to hand Milford the rains with someone he has confidence in playing with . Hunt is the best option we have atm , none of your options are even close to him. How many times have we tried multiple options in the halves but to no avail. One more year for hunt and find a ready made replacement. (Ash Taylor *cough*)

This... why the **** would we get rid of hunt and throw away any chance for a premiership.

Also throwing Milford the reins with no competent half outside him is asking for trouble. He hasn't yet shown he can lead the team and now you want him to do it with a merry-go-round at half back and every team knowing that he is the only target to shut down

 

[Cult]

Oh so now there's a large enough discrepancy between defending at Five-Eighth and defending at Halfback to cause a 7%+ increase in missed tackles per season.. I'm learning new things every day. It's the exact same defensive role, just on the opposite side of the field, they both defend at 3rd man in. And by the way, I debunked that whole "But.. Hunt makes so many more tackles!" theory quite a while back, he played more games than anyone in the list of players that made 400+ tackles apart from Chad Townsend. For example, Cherry-Evans played 7 less games but only amassed 171 less tackles overall, in fact Cherry-Evans (21.6) only averaged 0.8 tackles less per game than Hunt (22.4) in 2016, and made 47.4% fewer missed tackles per game in doing so. (Hunt 3.8 per game, Cherry-Evans 2.0 per game)

In regards to your claim that Kodi Nikorima & Jayden Nikorima are a step below Ben Hunt in the defense department, we don't have a large enough sample size of them defending in the halves to answer that question categorically. But I will oblige regardless and present their defensive statistics from 2016.

Kodi made 253 tackles, 15 missed ~ 5.9% of tackles are missed
Jayden made 122 tackles, 14 missed ~ 11.4% of tackles are missed

But nobody is saying Cherry-Evans is a bad defensive half? Also we aren't arguing about who should play five-eight, hence why their stats are irrelevant because we've spent this whole year saying Ben Hunt should be doing all of these things because he is the half bac. Are they the same or are they different?

Again, I'm not saying Hunts defense is perfect. I'm saying it's better than the Nikorimas who I have watched with my own eyes get bumped off much worse than Hunt against teenagers. Likewise I wasn't saying Hunt was a good kicker, I was saying stop making every thread into a Hunts fault thread and that his kicking didn't ever warrant having every thread turn into a debate about whether he was shit or not very good.

How many times did Kasiano or Tony Williams run at either of the Nikorimas? Or any other 120kg plus prop forward? Ben Hunt was always in the thick of it, making an effort to slow down those monsters, which he succeeds at by the way. How many missed tackles led to a try or even a line break? Where are these stats? Stats don't prove a thing. Do you watch these games or do you go on NRL.com and watch their stream of stats updating for 80 mins?

 

[theshed]

I remember a time when I enjoyed this boaed over other online league communities because I felt that the members here usually kept to cival and constructive conversations, even in disagreement. There was a touch of class here that wasn't present else where.

The last 2 years the board has fallen to trash. Most discussions now are barely above the level of Facebook comments. There was a time when people in this board actually liked the players at our club and didn't deathride the whole team any chance they got.

Everyone entitled to their opinions but this has gotten out of hand. Boyd, Hunt, Reed, Maranta, Macca, P Wallace, have been trashed hard recently and I don't think it's appropriate for players that have done so much for the club despite how individuals may perceive their skill level.

Hunt might be a great half, he might be shit but he's been a great clubmen and was offered a contract no one would turn down. Everyone here mostly supports the same team, it'd be nice to keep the discussion mature and positive. You can critique a player without turning into primary school kids.

 

[Unbreakable]

But nobody is saying Cherry-Evans is a bad defensive half? Also we aren't arguing about who should play five-eight, hence why their stats are irrelevant because we've spent this whole year saying Ben Hunt should be doing all of these things because he is the half bac. Are they the same or are they different?

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, sorry.

Again, I'm not saying Hunts defense is perfect. I'm saying it's better than the Nikorimas who I have watched with my own eyes get bumped off much worse than Hunt against teenagers. Likewise I wasn't saying Hunt was a good kicker, I was saying stop making every thread into a Hunts fault thread and that his kicking didn't ever warrant having every thread turn into a debate about whether he was shit or not very good.

Wtf? You bring up Hunt's kicking game more than anyone else, we're talking about his defense right now. We've already discussed his kicking game in-depth, no need to keep bringing it up in every thread.

How many times did Kasiano or Tony Williams run at either of the Nikorimas? Or any other 120kg plus prop forward? Ben Hunt was always in the thick of it, making an effort to slow down those monsters, which he succeeds at by the way.

Wait.. so now we're only basing a players defensive ability based on who runs at them?? You're clutching at straws now man, especially considering Kodi defended in the middle for the whole season..

Where are these stats? Stats don't prove a thing.

Do you watch these games or do you go on NRL.com and watch their stream of stats updating for 80 mins?

So now you're insulting my knowledge of the game because I hit you with stats that disprove your theory? Keep it civil mate, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. I can't find anything that proves that Hunt is a better defender than both Nikorima brothers, which you're claiming as indisputable fact..

 

[lynx000]

Can you read the post immediately above yours please?

 

[Big Pete]

I'm not ready to pull the pin on 2017 yet.

If the Broncos released or dropped Ben Hunt, they may as well front the media and declare their surrender to the rest of the competition. Despite his flaws, he's still the best halfback the Broncos have and have had since Alfie and if they're any chance of making the Top 4 it's with him at 7.

I don't believe in the concept of a rebuilding year. This isn't like the AFL where a couple of poor seasons will theoretically enable you to fill your roster with future stars. Rugby League doesn't operate in that fashion, it's all about coaching, building the team around certain individuals and moneyball.

Side-Tangent: Even when it comes to junior development, the majority of star talent are usually cherry-picked from other nurseries and happen to find themselves with the highest bidder. Before he was promised an NRL gig at 15, Ponga was a Broncos junior. Before the Roosters unearthed him, Tuivasa-Sheck was making a name for himself in New Zealand as a superstar junior. Brisbane signed Ash Taylor up as a 12 year old in 2007. They invested resource after resource only to realise that as soon as he was ready, there wasn't going to be a spot for him in the foreseeable future. The Broncos essentially wasted their time and money with nothing to show from it other than that giant piece of egg on their face.

Essentially, you've got to make the most of every season and put the best 13 on the paddock. At this stage, Hunt is clearly our best #7 and it's where he belongs until the end of the season.

 

[Thelmus]

Unless the plan is to have a current bronco as your long term half, changing hunt (especially this close to the season start) would be ludicrous

I'm not ready to pull the pin on 2017 yet.

If the Broncos released or dropped Ben Hunt, they may as well front the media and declare their surrender to the rest of the competition. Despite his flaws, he's still the best halfback the Broncos have and have had since Alfie and if they're any chance of making the Top 4 it's with him at 7.

I don't believe in the concept of a rebuilding year. This isn't like the AFL where a couple of poor seasons will theoretically enable you to fill your roster with future stars. Rugby League doesn't operate in that fashion, it's all about coaching, building the team around certain individuals and moneyball.

Side-Tangent: Even when it comes to junior development, the majority of star talent are usually cherry-picked from other nurseries and happen to find themselves with the highest bidder. Before he was promised an NRL gig at 15, Ponga was a Broncos junior. Before the Roosters unearthed him, Tuivasa-Sheck was making a name for himself in New Zealand as a superstar junior. Brisbane signed Ash Taylor up as a 12 year old in 2007. They invested resource after resource only to realise that as soon as he was ready, there wasn't going to be a spot for him in the foreseeable future. The Broncos essentially wasted their time and money with nothing to show from it other than that giant piece of egg on their face.

Essentially, you've got to make the most of every season and put the best 13 on the paddock. At this stage, Hunt is clearly our best #7 and it's where he belongs until the end of the season.

I think rebuilding exists but only after a major season of crap (think bottom 4). The broncos are never that bad, we have our ups and downs and last year we didn't go as far as we'd like but that's all. There's no obvious reason to suggest with what we have on roster, we can't do top 4. 1 of our halves is the hottest property in the NRL, the other was worth 1 million a season. We have test and origin props. The best 2nd rower going around and a back line every other team envies. The only thing stopping us from winning is not a half's kicking game or a props running but the patience to wait for the opportunities instead of trying to score off every set of 6. I hear Lockyer talking about it all the time. None of our players lack ability but throw a loose pass or an attacking kick with no runners (regardless of how well its done) will kill us every time

 

[Big Pete]

I think rebuilding exists but only after a major season of crap (think bottom 4).

Whenever I hear a coach declare a season a rebuilding year, they're not doing anything productive, they're just performing damage control.

Take Newcastle for instance, do they look any better than what they did last year? All that talk of a rebuild and their roster doesn't look capable of achieving anything until 2019 at the earliest. At which point, established cogs in their side will move on and the competition will change dramatically.

It's pissing in the wind as far as I'm concerned. By the time March rolls around, you select your best 17, adjustments are usually made via injury and nothing changes until the off-season hits. Coaches who try to blood a bunch of players and change the approach of the side wind up eating crow and defaulting to whatever worked.

Final side-tangent, I hate the way signings are handled. It was crummy when the Knights signed Ponga and how the media pressured the Cowboys into releasing him early. That isn't how contracts work and the social expectation should be on the players honoring their commitment, not on the club's doing the right thing for a struggling club.

 

[BroncsFan]

Good point on your side-tangent Pete the exact same is happening with Hunt right now.. we made the gf in 2015 and top 5 last year in an injury ravaged year and all of a sudden just because drags made a ridiculous offer we should just throw away this season... because you know he's not going to be here next year

 

[Unbreakable]

Coaches who try to blood a bunch of players and change the approach of the side wind up eating crow and defaulting to whatever worked.

Presumably excluding what Griffin did with the 2016 Panthers..

Nathan Cleary, James Fisher-Harris, Leilani Latu, Te Maire Martin, Moses Leota all debuted in 2016 (Latu in Round 21, 2015) and are now a massive part of the Panthers future (Which looks extremely bright, because of how many young guys Griffin blooded in 2016)