Is Johnathan Thurston the GOAT?

[Battler]

As much as it pains me to say, I'd prefer Johns in my side if we're talking about both at their peak. Locky is better than both though (best FB of all time, and the equal of Wally as a five eight). Alf is always left out of these conversations for some reason.

 

[Porthoz]

You're really going to need to elaborate some more on that.

Well, it speaks for itself really, at least if you understand clutch the same way I do.
How many times have you seen Thurston decide a game going down to the wire and under high pressure?

Like [MENTION=2223]vertigo[/MENTION] said, when on song, Thurston can literally tear any team apart, although he will often need a trustworthy sidekick, like Morgan now, or Bowen in the past for example, but pull a game out of the fire in the dying moments, like the God of Rugby League has done so many times... I can't recall when he has done that for the last time.

 

[Big Pete]

Outside of Cooper's booming 40m field goal in Origin 3 2012, I can't recall a more clutch performance than JT's Round 4 vs Melbourne.

Starring at 0-4, JT orchestrates a magnificence comeback against one of the most resolute teams in the competition, having a hand in two tries, nailing two sideline conversions and two field goals to break the duck for the Cowboys.

Following that there's the performance he had against the Raiders.

And I wouldn't discount his CC esque performance against the Broncos either. Not necessarily a case in point, but it certainly doesn't detract either.

 

[Broncoman]

Well, it speaks for itself really, at least if you understand clutch the same way I do.
How many times have you seen Thurston decide a game going down to the wire and under high pressure?

Like @vertigo said, when on song, Thurston can literally tear any team apart, although he will often need a trustworthy sidekick, like Morgan now, or Bowen in the past for example, but pull a game out of the fire in the dying moments, like the God of Rugby League has done so many times... I can't recall when he has done that for the last time.

He kicked them to victory in the Grand Final in the biggest pressure of all and as Pete said just then he won some games under pressure for them this year as well.

 

[Super Freak]

The 2006 Grand Final is enough for me.

Lockyer controlled that game brilliantly. Set up two tries and kicked the field goal to seal the result. He didn't need Golden Point to get them the win, he ended it long before that point. Against a side that Broncos just couldn't beat before that night.

He was a crucial part in Grand Final wins in two positions.

When it comes to rep, I just can't get put Thurston above Lewis.

 

[Porthoz]

He kicked them to victory in the Grand Final in the biggest pressure of all and as Pete said just then he won some games under pressure for them this year as well.

I didn't say he hasn't had his moments, but the GF was anything but. Scoring a field goal in extra time, when you were ordinary (for his standard) for most of the game, is not a clutch moment. He wasn't even close to the best player on the field either.

People confuse dominance and being able to draw a game out of the fire under adverse circumstances.

Hunt is more of a clutch player than him.

 

[Alec]

Hunt is more of a clutch player than him.

Hunt is a good player, but come on. The guy who can't kick field goals? The guy who almost lost us the game against the Roosters in our first clash (albeit before ultimately winning it).

 

[Ari Gold]

I didn't say he hasn't had his moments, but the GF was anything but. Scoring a field goal in extra time, when you were ordinary (for his standard) for most of the game, is not a clutch moment. He wasn't even close to the best player on the field either.

People confuse dominance and being able to draw a game out of the fire under adverse circumstances.

Hunt is more of a clutch player than him.

I hope you mean Karmichael. Because Ben Hunt just played the biggest game of his life and fucked up at every opportunity.

 

[Nashy]

Hunt more of a clutch player than JT? That'll do me. Broncos glasses on special this week or something?

 

[jarro65]

As good as JT is, i still think Lockyer has him covered in the 'clutch plays' department.

Too many times in the past Locky has won games for us, Broncos/QLD, with some massive plays.

 

[Unbreakable]

1. Lockyer
6. Thurston
7. Johns
9. Smith
13. Lewis (c)

What I would pay to see those 5 guys in the same team in their prime.

 

[Kimlo]

Locky 2006 game 3 origin. That is all my friends. That is all.

 

[Big Pete]

As mentioned, JT's part in that Origin 3 06 comeback can't be discounted.

I don't know one way or another who the better clutch player is, but to say JT isn't a clutch player is absurd.

 

[Broncoman]

Lockyer is the best clutch player i've ever seen in my time of watching the game. The amount of times I saw him win games either for us, QLD or Australia in pressure situations was ridiculous.

Talking of JT clutch plays one that is rarely mentioned and is almost forgotten is his field goal in his first origin game, it was a very wobbly kick but he got it over in the dying minutes to send the game into extra time after NSW pulled of a miracle comeback from nowhere.

 

[1910]

Thurston is a marvel; right from the start he was good. 20 points in an Origin game for Under 17’s, then Under 19’s for Qld in 2001 and NSW in 2002. Junior Roos in 2002 he scored a try and kicked four goals, Dogs GF in 2001 scores a try and two goals in a two point win, Dogs first division Grand Final 2002 kicks the winning goal and again winning by two against the Dragons.

Even then he wanted the ball when it mattered. It’s still the same now; every Origin during the streak, durable and tough and always on the ball. That’s what I love about him, he’s never out of games always around the ball wanting it. He’s a busy player.

It makes it even better that he wasn’t wanted; everyone said too small and he’s a touch player. I love that part of this story.

I don’t think Thurston is as smooth as Lewis or Lockyer he’s a bit like Justin Langer or Steve Waugh he’s just everywhere and tough. Wants the ball and when he has it he picks the right skill at the right time. While Lewis and Lockyer were Ponting or Chappell.

Jono’s defence is under-rated he’s a great cover defender and scrambles well in defence.

Comparisons not too sure; don’t think it really matters Lockyer, Lewis and Thurston will all be around each other forever. Immortal well the rules at present say retired for five years so Lockyer will be up next year if RLW need sales.

If I had to choose one at 6 it’d be Lewis just because he was a better defender and better kicking game.

 

[Black Philip]

So "clutch" is a thing now?

 

[Morkel]

It's taken over from "spine".

 

[Super Freak]

Just to put up some stats..

Darren Lockyer

355 games
237 wins (66.76%)
122 Tries
341 Goals (67.39%)
21 Field Goals
1,191 points total
4 GF appearance, 4 premierships.

QLD

36 games
19 wins (52.78%)
9 Tries
23 Goals
2 Field Goals
84 points total
9 Origin series wins

Australia

63 games
51 wins (80.95%)
37 Tries
33 Goals
3 Field Goals
217 points total
1 World Cup win, 2 Four Nations wins, 3 Tri-Nations wins

Johnathan Thurston

264 games
149 wins (56.43%)
83 tries
724 Goals (79.47%)
14 Field Goals
1,794 points total
3 GF appearances, 2 premierships.

QLD

33 games
21 wins (63.64%)
5 Tries
89 Goals
2 Field Goals
200 points total
9 Origin series wins

Australia

32 games
29 wins (90.63%)
12 Tries
142 Goals
332 points total
1 World Cup win, 2 Four Nations wins, 1 Tri-Nations win

Working on getting try assist stats for all seasons.