Josh Hoffman at Fullback

[Huge]

There is a no-mans land when a teams attacking. A deep backline can affect the speed of the defensive line but its best effect is to bend or stretch the line. A flat in your face approach makes it so much simpler for the defense. Straight up straight forward straight back. Each play concedes 7-10 metres get the ball back from the kick.

Most of the time our 6 and 7 are spending too long in that zone. It seems to be that Norman and Wallace do not have the instant understanding required to either be flat and at the defensive line or angled away(deeper) and coming at speed.

I agree with Coxy and others that depth is needed at times but it more easily concedes ground. When sides are kept apart gaining ground is relatively simple with 4 or 5 one pass hitups. The coaches want that ground made but they want more too.
They are expecting high completions and control of the ball, both hard to achieve when employing riskier tactics.

If a coach accepts the risks to create a team with great variety and not primarily one great attribute then he has an adaptable team. One that handles whatever comes on matchday. We probably cannot expect Norman and Wallace to deliver to much as our coaches philosophy is more defensively based.

I'm not saying it is Hooks call solely just that it is hard for our playmakers to serve two masters.

 

[Porthoz]

There is a no-mans land when a teams attacking. A deep backline can affect the speed of the defensive line but its best effect is to bend or stretch the line. A flat in your face approach makes it so much simpler for the defense. Straight up straight forward straight back. Each play concedes 7-10 metres get the ball back from the kick.

Most of the time our 6 and 7 are spending too long in that zone. It seems to be that Norman and Wallace do not have the instant understanding required to either be flat and at the defensive line or angled away(deeper) and coming at speed.

I agree with Coxy and others that depth is needed at times but it more easily concedes ground. When sides are kept apart gaining ground is relatively simple with 4 or 5 one pass hitups. The coaches want that ground made but they want more too.
They are expecting high completions and control of the ball, both hard to achieve when employing riskier tactics.

If a coach accepts the risks to create a team with great variety and not primarily one great attribute then he has an adaptable team. One that handles whatever comes on matchday. We probably cannot expect Norman and Wallace to deliver to much as our coaches philosophy is more defensively based.

I'm not saying it is Hooks call solely just that it is hard for our playmakers to serve two masters.

Our problem is mostly in the last 20 mtrs... not getting there.
A flat line is great for gaining meters, but not so much when there aren't many meters to be gained. That's where set combinations come into play and a deeper line allows the playmakers and gap runners to take advantage of either a staggered or a static defensive line.

Can't imagine Hook hasn't seen this though, he must have something up his sleeve, because dumb... He ain't!

 

[Coxy]

There is a no-mans land when a teams attacking. A deep backline can affect the speed of the defensive line but its best effect is to bend or stretch the line. A flat in your face approach makes it so much simpler for the defense. Straight up straight forward straight back. Each play concedes 7-10 metres get the ball back from the kick.

Most of the time our 6 and 7 are spending too long in that zone. It seems to be that Norman and Wallace do not have the instant understanding required to either be flat and at the defensive line or angled away(deeper) and coming at speed.

I agree with Coxy and others that depth is needed at times but it more easily concedes ground. When sides are kept apart gaining ground is relatively simple with 4 or 5 one pass hitups. The coaches want that ground made but they want more too.
They are expecting high completions and control of the ball, both hard to achieve when employing riskier tactics.

If a coach accepts the risks to create a team with great variety and not primarily one great attribute then he has an adaptable team. One that handles whatever comes on matchday. We probably cannot expect Norman and Wallace to deliver to much as our coaches philosophy is more defensively based.

I'm not saying it is Hooks call solely just that it is hard for our playmakers to serve two masters.

Firstly, can I get that on a t-shirt? :P
And secondly, you're completely agreeing with me because I fully accept that the flat formation is essential for making ground and getting into the attacking territory. Once inside the 30m or so is where depth is required - make the defence make decisions instead of the attacking players having to make quick, almost impossibly quick decisions.

 

[noisetheory]

thought this facebook post by the broncs just now was about this discussion. but turns out 'picking on him' is in reference to him coping some hard hits over the last few weeks. haha

Brisbane Broncos
Why has everyone been picking on our super man at the back, Hoffy? He doesn't mind though, he says: http://bit.ly/LqC4Ms

 

[ningnangnong]

Haha, looks like whomever is behind the Broncos' Facebook page has been watching...

Brisbane Broncos

Why has everyone been picking on our super man at the back, Hoffy? He doesn't mind though, he says: http://bit.ly/LqC4Ms

 

[ningnangnong]

Damn, too slow!

 

[Fozz]

You have failed us, Ning. You are the weakest link and you're no longer in the hunt for Australia's next top admin.

 

[Coxy]

You have failed us, Ning. You are the weakest link and you're no longer in the hunt for Australia's next top admin.

He goes into a sudden death cook off with schmix who is also low on the charts due to lack of presence lately :P

 

[subsbligh]

I wish this was still hidden away in some other thread, coz this shit is embarrassing. Hoffman was the man last year. hes in bad form, happens to everyone, even lockyer, ever langer.

You literally have no idea of what bad form is.

Hoffman was best on ground against the Warriors. So safe under the high ball and that tackle to save the game on Manu literally won us the game.

Hoffy's attack has been a little off, I think mainly for the reasons already suggested above but also because he hasn't been the same since he was injured last year and Norman is not providing him the opportunities that Lockyer did. He also is shouldering a lot of the kick return work and early set dummy half runs that Yow Yeh used to smash out for us.

tl;dr Hodges should never and will never play fullback again. His only positional change (if any) from here to the end of his career is into the second row.

 

[Huge]

Just on Hodges. Stepping up to dummy half and taking a run himself is predictable to the point that even Channel Nine commentators have noticed it. In my opinion he should shelve it. It has been unproductive for the last month or more and probably a little longer. I admit I have seen him shrug and step, push and spin his way to some great metres over the years but, just in the last few months he has seldom broken free.

No matter what is said by the players, they take on board a lot of the criticisms leveled at them. A couple of months ago there was a fair bit said in the various media some of which implied Hodges, as a senior player had to step up. In the games following Hodges got into dummy half whenever a chance presented and not a single solitary break has been made by him since using this method. One person in Melbourne from the arts community didn't know what Hodges planned to do but he was the only person in Australia who was unaware !!

Veteran sportsmen and women are just as easily influenced by a little snippet of information as any other people are. If doubt can be created or you can get someone thinking along a certain line then they can easily be manipulated. We see that in those mind freak type shows. A couple of days ago one of the finest examples of screwing with someones head played out on Fox Sports.

The final of a professional snooker tournament (Goldfields Open) in Bendigo saw a highly credentialed veteran pro playing a somewhat lesser revered veteran. Peter Ebdon is his name. Former World Champ and multi tourney winner famous for his deliberate and careful (read dull and boring if you wish) style. I think he's won over 12 million Aussie dollars in prizemoney. No mug in other words. He's tall bald thin and real close to 40. One of the young pros( early 20s judd Trump ) tweeted about him a day or so before the final. Basically calling him dull and boring and downgrading this current achievement. Trumps young gung-ho and handsome with a glorious head of hair. He is also very very good, world top ten.

Ebdon replied via twitter saying Trump was totally entitled to his opinion but pointed out he had won the World Title already and many other tourneys as well. Ebdon plays a certain way, cautious considered and seldom taking risks.Very effective.

That's not how he approached the final, he tried to be something he wasn't. Without conscious effort he tried to be more Trump than Ebdon. Headf.c.ed by a smart-arse with a mobile. It was a seed planted and Ebdon was powerless to stop watering it. Ebdon should never have read what others were thinking because none of it matters.

Hodges is in the same boat. He should jump into dummy half and simply spin it out, I know we have others for this but insanity is doing the same thing over and again ,each time expecting a different result.He is too predictable.

 

[Dexter]

Firstly, can I get that on a t-shirt? :P
And secondly, you're completely agreeing with me because I fully accept that the flat formation is essential for making ground and getting into the attacking territory. Once inside the 30m or so is where depth is required - make the defence make decisions instead of the attacking players having to make quick, almost impossibly quick decisions.

Get a room you two

 

[rnabokov]

I dunno, I was taught that any code of football has 2 cardinal rules: you have to create space to create opportunities, and it's about the ball doing the work. And ok, the spectacle of big hits etc. too.

All this talk of a flat attack is well and good, but what is not mentioned is that we seem to go flat AND one out too often. Hasler's flat attack for example involves short quick passing so that there is always movement and it is constant movement that tests a defense's structure, especially with support players running behind the line, ready to capitalise on a slow defender, or a bad read.

In Hasler's plan, Barba is always just behind the line, and that's where Hoff should be a lot more often.

One out running is in my view generally an utter a waste of time. It asks no questions of the defense, unless there is an offload and unless there is a player moving in support. Consistent support play is also an issue for this team. I have seen Thaiday get the ball and run out soooo many times with no one within cooee of taking an offload.

As for depth, it isn't about players standing deep and flat footed, it is about being on the move, supporting the ball carrier, and the support player having another runner in support, moving the ball around and looking for the gap.

However I do agree with CF above where he says Norman and Wallace too often have problems deciding where to stand during an attacking play. When they do it right, we have scored some fantastic tries.

Lockyer's loss is being felt not only in Norman's relative inexperience, but the effect it has on Wallace as well, who constantly amazes me how one game he can be outstanding in attack, the next almost MIA.

And again I ask, where are those terrific outside-inside plays e.g. when Macca executed some perfect ones using Gillett and T'eo, or Norman's long cut-out passes, especially some to Glenn, or Thaiday hitting and spinning and offloading to a running support. Wasn't much of that v the Warriors.

The repertoire is there. Lots of variety. There's just not enough of it. And that is what worries me. Hope it shows on Friday.

 

[subsbligh]

Just on Hodges. Stepping up to dummy half and taking a run himself is predictable to the point that even Channel Nine commentators have noticed it. In my opinion he should shelve it. It has been unproductive for the last month or more and probably a little longer. I admit I have seen him shrug and step, push and spin his way to some great metres over the years but, just in the last few months he has seldom broken free.

Hodges is in the same boat. He should jump into dummy half and simply spin it out, I know we have others for this but insanity is doing the same thing over and again ,each time expecting a different result.He is too predictable.

Hodges will only ever come into dummy half on the back of a (or a couple) of quick play the balls when either there is only one marker or both are slow to their feet.

Everyone knows he is going to do it but he still makes a good 10-15 metres everytime or a line break 20% of the time. I don't think we have an Isaac Luke like hooker capable of turning that exact same opportunity into a line break on every occasion, so I think Hodges is warranted in continuing to hog the dummy half scoot opportunities.

Also, see game changing try in State of Origin III.

 

[Huge]

Hate to be disagreeable Sub but I have been watching Hodges closely lately and he really isn't making 10 or 15. I'm not saying he should stop doing what has made him famous just that it hasn't been as effective as in the past. He's a champion just the same.

 

[Old Mate]

Yeah generally he gets pulled up straight away.

 

[RedHillGuy]

One area I think that needs improvement is Ben Hunt's service out of dummy half when he comes on late in the first half. I think he adds something around the ruck with his running game, but the speed and quality of his pass to the 1st receiver I think is at times a bit too sloppy. And this is normally when the broncos have been winning the yardage battle and should be starting to open up the opposition.

There has been lots of comments on the depth of the broncos attack and I agree with those... but am also not sure if Hoffman is just lacking half a metre of pace but a lot of the fullbacks who run the 2nd man well also seem to be able to time their run to receive the ball on the outside or running a nice arc... something that K Hunt was extremely good at... the broncos attacking shape when they run 2nd man plays always looks out... except when Beale is deputising at fullback....

 

[Mister Wright]

It's a bit late in the season to make such a significant change unless forced by injury.

 

[Broncoman]

Hope he has a blinder tonight.