"Milf will be like Locky" - Bennett

[Porthoz]

Did you realise this after you wrote my view off as a fallacy or?

You stated it as a fact, not as your view:

The original point was that Milford is the best five eighth at the club.

And it is my opinion that statement is a fallacy, as it lacks any kind of evidence to support it.

You're entitled to view it that way, but that is your opinion, not an universal statement.

I think we can all agree that a picture is worth a 1000 words.

So Dugan being a dickhead is a good reason to put an inexperienced Milford in FG, but having your top 3 Fullbacks out of contention, isn't good enough reason to put Milford at fullback and put an inexperienced Taylor in FG?

I see how it is. Usually the burden of proof lies with the group making the case but you've yet to really offer up anything to suggest they're better, just that Milford isn't suited.

There's nothing to really discuss, between the three of them, they've only managed one game for a loss. Milford is basically better by default as a result of at least contributing some positive plays in his team at the Raiders and at the Broncos.

I get the feeling neither of them will get much of an opportunity to make a case either.

Your burden of proof is as high as mine, and neither of us has any kind of evidence to prove the other wrong.
That bold bit doesn't even come close to it, and is nothing more than conjecture, and again a fallacy, as it is suggestive that Kahu, Hodges and Boyd haven't contributed anything positive to their teams. Just because they were not wearing the 6, doesn't mean they haven't contributed positively from a position a good 5/8 would. Boyd and Hodges have demonstrated that many times.

I also never implied that any of them would be great 5/8's, but I think they could do as good, if not better jobs there, than Milford has been doing.

It is also my point that Milford should be Fullback, especially under the current circumstances, and Taylor should be given a go partnering Hunt, and yes, I absolutely stand by my opinion that he is the best half at the Broncos to do that.

That would be absolutely amazing if true.

I think it is, and he is proving it every week, but yeah... it's only the U20's.

 

[Porthoz]

So what you're trying to say is Milford playing well as his style of half in the NYC is different to Taylor playing well in the NYC because it suits your what?

It's not my what, it's what halves should do you know, like organise, kick well, pass well, control a game, etc... Have you seen Milford do that now or in the NYC?
Better yet, did you actually see Milford play in the NYC or younger grades?

 

[Big Pete]

It's a Rugby League forum, there's a presumption of subjectivity with every post.

Technically Darren Lockyer being a better five eighth than Shane Webcke is an opinion.

But I'd find it odd if somebody was going to go out of their way to dismiss that as a fallacy, I'm sure you would be there keeping them honest right? :laugh:

I'm not going to keep jumping through rings.

It's clear that you've got a high opinion on Taylor. I'm not exactly sure what games you've exactly seen of his to form your opinion but it's clear you want him in the team above all else. You also believe that Milford should be playing fullback, that's fair enough, I can see your opinion on that but there are pros and cons on both sides.

However to go as far to claim that Hodges, Boyd and Kahu are better five eighths when there is so little to base it on isn't constructive and just makes it obvious that you're not going to listen to reason.

I didn't plan on talking about Milford today because I know how futile it is with some people but I was personally asked so I offered. This is the last post I'll make on the matter specifically until a more appropriate time.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

>Unknown position (Played all of his junior football in the halves)
>Give that shot to a rookie (Is 20 years old and has <50 games in the NRL)

Shit, sorry... i mustve imagined milford playing a full season of NRL

Rookie:

• a member of a sports team in their first full season.
  
  

 

[Huge]

We have to take a breath here. Milford is 7 games in and he is not setting the world on fire as a 5/8. I am certain that Kevvie Walters is working with him and he will improve as the season progresses. I think we should stick with him up until at least until the Origin period is over. When I came over to wa to drive the iron ore trains it was a steep learning curve with an enormous amount of things to digest and put into everyday practice. I was already a highly experienced train driver but these things were monstrous and the operating rules and practices were complex. Every day during the training phase I finished each shift mentally drained . I wondered when I was let loose how long it would be before it was second nature. Suddenly, one day it happened, I was relaxed, knew what was required and found myself doing it without forethought.

So I suspect it will be with Milford. Like me he came to the task experienced in the field but inexperienced in the role. Unlike Hoggman before him, he has shown that he can do the job. Doubtless the combined pressure of playing in a legends position, public expectation and trying your best for a glamour club and world renowned coach is weighing heavily on him. All this when really not long out of school is tough. WB is a wise old man and if he perseveres with Milf it will be because he believes in him and feels as though it will eventually click.

 

[rnabokov]

Not really. I say this will all respect, because I love Milford, but **** him.

The team comes first
The individual comes second.

The Broncos will always be better than any individual, and players should only ever do what's best for the team overall.

It's the same reason I was all to happy to see the back of Hoffman. That's not to compare Milford to him, I think Milford's a great kid with an excellent attitude, and I'm sure he'll be happy to play where ever suits the team best.

You are entirely correct. My point is simple. Milford is for mine, an X-factor player. To be that, you have to have the right mental state, be comfortable where you are and what you can do and what is expected of you. Then you get the best out of a player. An X-factor is where the whole is more than the sum of the parts.

I am sure Milford is a true professional and loyal club man, and will play wherever the coach decides he thinks is best for the team, and Milford will do it to the best of his abilities ... except the whole will be the sum of the parts, not that extra magic bit.

That magic Lockyer had at FB, which made him as good as, if not the best FB in the game.

That made the team, which does always, also come first, that much better. \

The context here for me is pure curiosity. Where would Milford want to play: FB or 5/8 ... 'cos for mine, he is an X-Factor at FB on what I have seen of him at FB, much more than 5/8.

Sort of like Lockyer ... born to it and not manufactured.

 

[Unbreakable]

Shit, sorry... i mustve imagined milford playing a full season of NRL

I stated that he's played nearly 50 NRL games, in case you can't read.

If your argument is genuinely that we would've been much better off using a 20 year old at Five-Eighth with no NRL experience as opposed to a 20 year old at Five-Eighth with 50 odd games NRL experience, then you're further gone than I originally thought and this is literally a waste of everyone's time responding to you.

 

[Kimlo]

We have to take a breath here. Milford is 7 games in and he is not setting the world on fire as a 5/8. I am certain that Kevvie Walters is working with him and he will improve as the season progresses. I think we should stick with him up until at least until the Origin period is over. When I came over to wa to drive the iron ore trains it was a steep learning curve with an enormous amount of things to digest and put into everyday practice. I was already a highly experienced train driver but these things were monstrous and the operating rules and practices were complex. Every day during the training phase I finished each shift mentally drained . I wondered when I was let loose how long it would be before it was second nature. Suddenly, one day it happened, I was relaxed, knew what was required and found myself doing it without forethought.

So I suspect it will be with Milford. Like me he came to the task experienced in the field but inexperienced in the role. Unlike Hoggman before him, he has shown that he can do the job. Doubtless the combined pressure of playing in a legends position, public expectation and trying your best for a glamour club and world renowned coach is weighing heavily on him. All this when really not long out of school is tough. WB is a wise old man and if he perseveres with Milf it will be because he believes in him and feels as though it will eventually click.

Quality post. I'm not sold on Milford either way, but I entirely agree that he deserves the larger part of the season before we make a judgement either way.

 

[Porthoz]

It's a Rugby League forum, there's a presumption of subjectivity with every post.

Technically Darren Lockyer being a better five eighth than Shane Webcke is an opinion.

But I'd find it odd if somebody was going to go out of their way to dismiss that as a fallacy, I'm sure you would be there keeping them honest right? :laugh:

I'm not going to keep jumping through rings.

It's clear that you've got a high opinion on Taylor. I'm not exactly sure what games you've exactly seen of his to form your opinion but it's clear you want him in the team above all else. You also believe that Milford should be playing fullback, that's fair enough, I can see your opinion on that but there are pros and cons on both sides.

However to go as far to claim that Hodges, Boyd and Kahu are better five eighths when there is so little to base it on isn't constructive and just makes it obvious that you're not going to listen to reason.

I didn't plan on talking about Milford today because I know how futile it is with some people but I was personally asked so I offered. This is the last post I'll make on the matter specifically until a more appropriate time.

Your paragraph on Taylor and Milford is spot on, but that's where you should have left it. Instead, you continue with the bold, which is exactly what I have a problem with. I explained my opinion on that subject, but you dismiss it as "not listening to reason" or "futile"... That only makes you come across as arrogant and condescending!

What makes you believe you know better about RL, or have more reason than anyone else? Is it because you read a bunch of RLW magazines and have their yearly almanachs? It only makes you more informed, not a visionary!
Once and for all, please understand the difference between arguing an opinion, and imposing your view or being dismissive of others.

P.S. Bringing up Lockyer vs Webcke as 5/8, either means you don't understand what subjectivity means, or you were trying to ridicule my comparison of Milford to Kahu, Boyd or Hodges. I honestly don't know what would be worse...

 

[broncos4life]

Have we just reversed the thoughts of last season when we had Hoffman and Barba at 6 (and Milford really hasn't done much more than either of them).

Last season when we had Hoffman our Barba in the halves, many people were demanding our young halves be selected regardless of whether they were ready or not.

This year it seems the other way around.

Serious? Milford hasn't done much more than barba or Hoffman. HOFFMAN.

That will do me.

 

[uptheguts]

Milford needs to speed things up , If he is running at speed he will put questions in the minds of the defense .ie Will he pass or run?
He needs to stand deeper and run on to the ball . He should not be named in the same sentence as Locky who incidentally I think was even a better fullback then he was a 5/8.

 

[Foordy]

Serious? Milford hasn't done much more than barba or Hoffman. HOFFMAN.

That will do me.

Unfortunately thats true ...

Hoffman had several try assists and plenty of running meters in his time at 5/8

Barba (who most people wanted gone) also had a hattruck against a mediocre team.

Milford has a double against the Titans (aka a mediocre team) i think a try assist (but not entirely sure) and a few running meters.

The only real difference is more people seem prepared to excuse Milfords performance at 5/8, when they weren't for either Hoffman or Barba (who were both also new to the role in first grade; although like Milford, they both played in the halves in junior footy)

 

[Huge]

Foordy, most people took quite a while before they started to voice a dislike for Hoggman and Barba ( in the 5/8 role ) We all know some on here want to bag Milford simply because they wish to be proved 'right' and by extension their incredible cleverness is demonstrated. Those same people want Milford to play fullback and vehemently disagree with WBs position on the matter and if Milf fails it will validate their view and they would actively wish for that. It's called vanity. I would much rather see milf succeed as my team would benefit.

 

[lynx000]

My two cents for what it is worth:-
1. Before anyone makes a call one way or the other on the Milf to 5/8 project, I think you have to give the kid to the end of the season before you make a call;

2. Building on the first point, it is going to be a very, very, very long season if after every game we have the doomsayers on hand or the Bennett cheer squad on the other proclaiming the correctness of their version depending on how the kid has played in the most recent game. Can we give it a run of 4-5 games before we try and utilise what has happened in a game as supporting a position. I think 4-5 games would be sufficient to constitute a trend. So if he has 3-4 more poor games at 5/8 there may be some basis for claiming that run of form as support for your milf is only good at fullback position. Similarly, if he kills it for 1-2 games that does not mean he is the second coming of Locky (yet).

3. I know it is a discussion board, but this topic has now been beaten to death. It would appear that everyone's opinion is entrenched and I don't think I have seen anyone shift position yet. Unless you have the ear of WB, I don't see what is going to change by further discussion. But if you want to get to 120 pages of the same argument being ventilated, have at it.

4. I am in the (perhaps by myself) I am not prepared to call it a failure yet and I am willing to give him until the end of the season to grow in the role camp. This week was a backward slide. but I thought he had been gradually improving prior to to this.

 

[Foordy]

Foordy, most people took quite a while before they started to voice a dislike for Hoggman and Barba ( in the 5/8 role ) We all know some on here want to bag Milford simply because they wish to be proved 'right' and by extension their incredible cleverness is demonstrated. Those same people want Milford to play fullback and vehemently disagree with WBs position on the matter and if Milf fails it will validate their view and they would actively wish for that. It's called vanity. I would much rather see milf succeed as my team would benefit.

Don't get me wrong, i would love nothing more than for Milford to prove me wrong and make a successful transition to 5/8.

But IMO, i think ATM he needs that little bit more room, and that litte bit less responsibility for organising the team that he gets at fullback but not at 5/8.

I also think moving Milf to fullback will have other benefits for the team, like:

Boyd moving to wing and giving us a genuine finisher on the wing, which is something we have missed since we lost Yow Yeh.

And Taylor getting a shot in the team, a player who i really rate and i think we would be more dangerous with both Milford and Taylor in the side. I akso think having Taylor at 6 would take the pressure off Hunt and offer us another kicking option.

 

[Socnorb]

He will get his chance. Some players handle being thrown into the deep end, others it destroys them... What is the rush?

What's the rush?what's the rush? We lost to the dragons by 2 points. Somebody fix us!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Old Mate]

You're willing to throw anybody into a key position just so we can accomodate somebody who wasn't good enough to carry a Raiders outfit higher than 13th.

Eels, Hayne etc etc.

 

[Huge]

Don't get me wrong, i would love nothing more than for Milford to prove me wrong and make a successful transition to 5/8.

But IMO, i think ATM he needs that little bit more room, and that litte bit less responsibility for organising the team that he gets at fullback but not at 5/8.

I also think moving Milf to fullback will have other benefits for the team, like:

Boyd moving to wing and giving us a genuine finisher on the wing, which is something we have missed since we lost Yow Yeh.

And Taylor getting a shot in the team, a player who i really rate and i think we would be more dangerous with both Milford and Taylor in the side. I akso think having Taylor at 6 would take the pressure off Hunt and offer us another kicking option.

We all want a better balance in the team and your suggestion is not outrageous but all most of us are asking for is some time to pass before a judgement is made. WB may yet be proven correct. Seven rounds are simply not enough games to be certain. Hodges playing was a terrible idea and it's one that I don't agree with WB about. I actually hoped Copley would play 5/8 with Milf at fullback ! Milf hasn't showed a lot yet but it's still early days. Keep working with Kevvie and Milf might just come good.