More defections.

[Big Pete]

They've changed the international rules since Hazem retired.

Lebanon weren't considered a Test nation which IMO is fair enough and how it should be for pretty much every International side not named Australia, New Zealand, England...and maybe France.

 

[Jeba]

Hang on a second.

There are Kiwi players out there that moved to Australia when they were 12 and have been forced to decide between Australia or NZ.

There are Lebanese players out there (Hazem El Masri) who moved to Australia when they were 12 and did NOT have to choose between Australia and Lebanon.

Hazem was allowed to play for NSW, yet the NZ players were not. Why? What's the difference between making a Kiwi choose and not a Leb? This same thing would go for many other players out there. Why are Kiwi's singled out?

To strengthen the International game.

 

[Ari Gold]

To strengthen the International game.

This will never be achieved. Rugby League will always be if NZ and at a stretch, England, can upset the Aussies. Perhaps with a lot of hard work you could add an Islander team that represents all the islands the way the Windies do in cricket, but honestly, I don't think it's worth it.

The sooner the IC realize that league isn't going to flourish as an International sport and that Origin is the showcase of our game, the better.

 

[Jeba]

There's been a few who've done it for NSW too.

But to answer your question, no it wouldn't weaken the international game at all, but it would weaken the concept of State of Origin.

 

[Jeba]

This will never be achieved. Rugby League will always be if NZ and at a stretch, England, can upset the Aussies. Perhaps with a lot of hard work you could add an Islander team that represents all the islands the way the Windies do in cricket, but honestly, I don't think it's worth it.

The sooner the IC realize that league isn't going to flourish as an International sport and that Origin is the showcase of our game, the better.

I think they do know this. Origin is always hyped up as our showpiece and rightly so. But League is making quite good inroads in some countries, France in particular. And the north of England are Rugby League mad. Always have been always will be. Baby steps.

 

[Jeba]

NSW or QLD, doesn't matter. What I'm saying is, why is it ok for Victorian players to choose whether they want to play for QLD or NSW yet Kiwi players cannot, unless they pledge their souls Australia first? These Kiwi's would know way more about what Origin is about in comparison to some player from Victoria who spent his whole life there. Doesn't it cheapen the concept if we have Victorians playing for NSW or QLD?

Can you give me an example of this even happening though? It's a moot point mate. Can you name me any Melbourne Storm players who grew up in Victoria and played League in Victoria when they were young? I think thats a poor example.

Also as a side point I think it's ironic that we are debating in this thread yet at the same time in another thread we agree 1000%!!!!

 

[JaseC]

IMO, doesn't matter what nationality you are, I reckon if you've played footy in Australia from a certain age, then you should be eligible for Origin. If you get someone from another country who has called Australia home since the age of 12 and have played footy in NSW for example, I don't see why they should miss out on Origin. They aren't any less Australian than many others.

Hey Jeb, question for you. Going by your logic, why should players that come from Victoria and WA be allowed to choose which Origin team they play for yet Kiwi's and certain other nationalities are not? Are you saying that a Kiwi who has lived in QLD since they were 12 would be less passionate about QLD as opposed to someone who has never actually lived in QLD..ever and decided to choose QLD? Because there are a few players that have done exactly that! ;-)

Can I interject here?

The reason the Kiwi players should not be eligible is simple.

Firstly, International Rugby League needs all the help it can get, which is why any players eligible to play for other countries (besides the big 3; Australia, NZ, England), should not only be allowed to play for these minnow nations without affecting their State of Origin (SoO) status, but they should be ENCOURAGED to do so.

Secondly, a player who was born in NZ, should not be eligible to play for QLD or NSW until they have pledged allegiance to Australia, as they should be Australian citizens to represent an Australian State. The Australian Test team is supposedly selected off the performances at SoO level, therefore all players playing in SoO MUST be eligible for Australian selection.

 

[Coxy]

I disagree. I think State of Origin is all about the passion of the players involved. Greg Inglis isn't a Queenslander. But does he show passion in the maroon jersey? Yes.

Let anyone who played junior football in Australia be eligible for Origin, but only if they make themselves available. Believe it or not there are Kiwi-born Queenslanders who don't want to play Origin.

It doesn't weaken the concept of Origin at all - if Inglis, Hunt, Nagas didn't weaken the concept of Origin, this won't either.

 

[mrslong]

Can I interject here?

The reason the Kiwi players should not be eligible is simple.

Firstly, International Rugby League needs all the help it can get, which is why any players eligible to play for other countries (besides the big 3; Australia, NZ, England), should not only be allowed to play for these minnow nations without affecting their State of Origin (SoO) status, but they should be ENCOURAGED to do so.

Secondly, a player who was born in NZ, should not be eligible to play for QLD or NSW until they have pledged allegiance to Australia, as they should be Australian citizens to represent an Australian State. The Australian Test team is supposedly selected off the performances at SoO level, therefore all players playing in SoO MUST be eligible for Australian selection.

It should be up to the players. Australians and NZ'ders are far too closely intertwined for it to be cut and dried. You shouldn't make someone play for a country that they don't feel represents them.

What about Gerard Beale & Josh Hoffman. Both born in QLD both playing for NZ. It works both ways.....

 

[JaseC]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree Coxy and mrslong.

Whilst I firmly believe that someone who has moved to Australia and wishes to become an Australian, has the right to play for whichever State and if selected Australia. I can't agree that somebody who is Australian and then chooses to represent NZ or England over an Australian Test jersey, has the right to take part in Australia's most marketable and arguably biggest sporting event.

Perhaps I am confusing passion for patriotism, but I don't see how a player can claim to have "passion" for NSW or QLD, but want to play for NZ. For mine, that could only show that said player is chasing a Test jersey and has decided that a Kiwi or English Test jersey is easier than an Australian Test jersey.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree Coxy and mrslong.

Whilst I firmly believe that someone who has moved to Australia and wishes to become an Australian, has the right to play for whichever State and if selected Australia. I can't agree that somebody who is Australian and then chooses to represent NZ or England over an Australian Test jersey, has the right to take part in Australia's most marketable and arguably biggest sporting event.

Perhaps I am confusing passion for patriotism, but I don't see how a player can claim to have "passion" for NSW or QLD, but want to play for NZ. For mine, that could only show that said player is chasing a Test jersey and has decided that a Kiwi or English Test jersey is easier than an Australian Test jersey.

^^^^^ agree 100%

 

[Broncoman]

Poaching rising New Zealand stars will damage international rugby league as NZ would have little talent to compete with us. This is weakeaning international rugby league.

 

[Nashy]

Then eligibility should allow New Zealand reps to play in Origin if they so choose. The eligibility requirements should be completely separate.

 

[Ari Gold]

Perhaps I am confusing passion for patriotism, but I don't see how a player can claim to have "passion" for NSW or QLD, but want to play for NZ. For mine, that could only show that said player is chasing a Test jersey and has decided that a Kiwi or English Test jersey is easier than an Australian Test jersey.

I don't think the two are the same. I always want to see QLD and I never give a flying **** if the Australian team win. Granted its not quite the same but IMO there's no automatic link.

I don't see why you can't want to represent one smaller region and at the same time represent a larger region that doesn't encompass the smaller region that you represent.

Put simply, we don't question Rocky's passion for the Broncos even though he supports a larger region that doesn't encompass Brisbane. Ditto I imagine for guys like Mick De Vere. I can't see how loving both Brisbane and NSW is that much different to QLD and NZ.

 

[OXY-351]

The elibility rules should be simplified to:

You're a winner and like winning - you play for QLD
You're a loser and you like losing - you play for NSW

 

[JaseC]

I don't think the two are the same. I always want to see QLD and I never give a flying **** if the Australian team win. Granted its not quite the same but IMO there's no automatic link.

I don't see why you can't want to represent one smaller region and at the same time represent a larger region that doesn't encompass the smaller region that you represent.

Put simply, we don't question Rocky's passion for the Broncos even though he supports a larger region that doesn't encompass Brisbane. Ditto I imagine for guys like Mick De Vere. I can't see how loving both Brisbane and NSW is that much different to QLD and NZ.

Ari Gold the difference between the Mick De Vere scenario or "Rocky's" passion for the Broncos scenario is that SoO is a representational fixture.

This is the crux of this argument.

If SoO was not a representational fixture, there would not be so much passion involved with the event. And one could then argue that the event probably wouldn't be what it is today.

So therefore, as a representational fixture, there must be guidelines to eligibility. It's evident that fans and maybe even players alike, will never agree on those eligibility guidelines however they are a necessary evil. We can't have Lockyer captaining NZ because he likes snowboarding in Christchurch and decides to reside on the South Island next year.

All jokes aside, I for one, can't agree that a player gets to choose to represent a "smaller region" but should then be able to choose to represent a "larger" region, when we are talking about State and Countries. I am a Queenslander and an Australian. I can't choose the former of the latter. I would hate to see Benji Marshall captain Queensland and then turn around in 6 months and hold aloft the Trans Tasman Cup.

The taste in my mouth would be too sour to bear.

 

[mrslong]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree Coxy and mrslong.

Whilst I firmly believe that someone who has moved to Australia and wishes to become an Australian, has the right to play for whichever State and if selected Australia. I can't agree that somebody who is Australian and then chooses to represent NZ or England over an Australian Test jersey, has the right to take part in Australia's most marketable and arguably biggest sporting event.

Perhaps I am confusing passion for patriotism, but I don't see how a player can claim to have "passion" for NSW or QLD, but want to play for NZ. For mine, that could only show that said player is chasing a Test jersey and has decided that a Kiwi or English Test jersey is easier than an Australian Test jersey.

HEY!!!! I think if you choose to play for NZ you DO NOT qualify to play for QLD or NSW!!!!

I just think there's nothing wrong with declaring loyalty to Aus or NZ even if you are born in the opposite country. Depending on your family and what they believe. So if Gerard Beale wants to be a Kiwi, let him be a Kiwi. If Karmichael wants to be Aussie, let him be an Aussie and don't judge them for that.

But if you're a Kiwi, you aren't a QLDer. that's that.

 

[JaseC]

But if you're a Kiwi, you aren't a QLDer. that's that.

I'm sorry forgive me for misunderstanding your post, however the above quote I agree with wholeheartedly
!