Pre-Season

1910 said:
It's not unrealistic at all; that's what depth and those bottom 5-7 spots in your squad are there to service. If you don't have a next man up attitude and confident, they can do the same job then it's not depth.

If you add in fatigue, niggles and pressure I am not sure Broncos are getting high quality games for a long time out of what's left.

Cobbo hit the wall badly last year at the end and went to pieces when he was called on to play 20 games.

Hopefully it doesn't matter and Oates, Staggs, Herbie and Cobbo play 24 games each.
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Again, that's not entirely true. If you are a development club, which we most certainly are, some of those 5-7 spots are for regular, seasoned back ups for sure but some of them are for your young guns you are nurturing to come through. Out of those 5-7 spots, we have 3-4 seasoned/mature back ups who you would be confident of getting 20 games out of if needed - Hoeter, Pereira, Arthars, Madden.

Then you have then you have 2-3 spots on youngsters who you hope will become something and could get around 10 games out of - Mariner fits that bill. The odd man out in this is Quai-Ward who really just seems to be a list clogger but than behind that, you've got that Newcastle kid and Leota who will both likely work their way into the squad next year. So out of our backs depth, the only real question mark is Quai-Ward but he is a good Q Cup player and has never played NRL, so the jury is out there.

Is it the best backline depth we've ever had? I'd say probably not in terms of in competition to opposition teams, it is right up there. Penrith is miles ahead of everyone, so outside of them, we are in the conversation for sure.
 
1910 said:
It's not unrealistic at all; that's what depth and those bottom 5-7 spots in your squad are there to service. If you don't have a next man up attitude and confident, they can do the same job then it's not depth.

If you add in fatigue, niggles and pressure I am not sure Broncos are getting high quality games for a long time out of what's left.

Cobbo hit the wall badly last year at the end and went to pieces when he was called on to play 20 games.

Hopefully it doesn't matter and Oates, Staggs, Herbie and Cobbo play 24 games each.
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I get where you are coming from but at the end of the day that just doesn’t exist. We have 3 players who played origin and one of the best English players in the game at the minute as our outside backs. To expect even 1 player to be at that level if called upon is simply ludicrous let alone a whole group of them. The idea of depth from myself and few others to yours is very different which is fine but I just don’t see how you can expect this standard of depth but then want the rest of the team to look good as well.

Currently we have so many capable options in the outside backs that have dished up consistently NRL level performances. Arthars, Hoeter and Pereira who could all play an entire season if need be. The. You have the likes of Quai-Ward and James Johnson who could plug a hole for a game or two which will be at most the best they’re getting. Finally you have Deine Mariner who I personally think is the best option to play 20 games yes you might get some rocks and diamond performances but just think how good he would be at the end of those 20 games. If you have an issue with our depth at the minute I’d hate to see what you think when there truly is shit depth in this club.

I know we aren’t winning consistently yet but we are very spoilt for talent at the club and even players with consistent ability that we can get quite picky on here. Clubs would be pretty happy to take some of those players in there starting team let alone as depth. I don’t think a single club rivals our outside back depth, obviously the odd club would have a better 20 game option such as Penrith with Turuva but for the most part our backline area in general let alone depth is not something to be complaining about from us fans at the minute.
 
1910 said:
It's not unrealistic at all; that's what depth and those bottom 5-7 spots in your squad are there to service. If you don't have a next man up attitude and confident, they can do the same job then it's not depth.

If you add in fatigue, niggles and pressure I am not sure Broncos are getting high quality games for a long time out of what's left.

Cobbo hit the wall badly last year at the end and went to pieces when he was called on to play 20 games.

Hopefully it doesn't matter and Oates, Staggs, Herbie and Cobbo play 24 games each.
Click to expand...

Cobbo had a brain injury ...
Pretty well documented if I recall ?
 
Fitzy said:
I get where you are coming from but at the end of the day that just doesn’t exist. We have 3 players who played origin and one of the best English players in the game at the minute as our outside backs. To expect even 1 player to be at that level if called upon is simply ludicrous let alone a whole group of them. The idea of depth from myself and few others to yours is very different which is fine but I just don’t see how you can expect this standard of depth but then want the rest of the team to look good as well.

Currently we have so many capable options in the outside backs that have dished up consistently NRL level performances. Arthars, Hoeter and Pereira who could all play an entire season if need be. The. You have the likes of Quai-Ward and James Johnson who could plug a hole for a game or two which will be at most the best they’re getting. Finally you have Deine Mariner who I personally think is the best option to play 20 games yes you might get some rocks and diamond performances but just think how good he would be at the end of those 20 games. If you have an issue with our depth at the minute I’d hate to see what you think when there truly is shit depth in this club.

I know we aren’t winning consistently yet but we are very spoilt for talent at the club and even players with consistent ability that we can get quite picky on here. Clubs would be pretty happy to take some of those players in there starting team let alone as depth. I don’t think a single club rivals our outside back depth, obviously the odd club would have a better 20 game option such as Penrith with Turuva but for the most part our backline area in general let alone depth is not something to be complaining about from us fans at the minute.
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Your depth doesn't have to match the career of the player above them- be an Origin player or Test player but they have to match the job.

You have to be confident that if Herbie was out for nine months from today could someone come in and have an NRL high quality season for the whole season. They don't have to be a Test player.

That's where my question marks come in if it was prolonged and under fatigue, pressure, stress would the depth hold up.

It's worst-case scenario but it's the true test of depth.
 
1910 said:
It's not unrealistic at all; that's what depth and those bottom 5-7 spots in your squad are there to service. If you don't have a next man up attitude and confident, they can do the same job then it's not depth.

If you add in fatigue, niggles and pressure I am not sure Broncos are getting high quality games for a long time out of what's left.

Cobbo hit the wall badly last year at the end and went to pieces when he was called on to play 20 games.

Hopefully it doesn't matter and Oates, Staggs, Herbie and Cobbo play 24 games each.
Click to expand...
Yep and I can see a number of players in our Top 30 that are probably not capable of providing that true depth and are therefore not providing the value for money required of the roster spot... unless they suddenly become NRL quality overnight.

If we lost Riki or Capewell for 4-6 weeks due to an MCL who comes in to replace them.... noting we need them to play 80mins. Piakura has yet to have a consistent run of Qcup and Palasia isn't mobile enough. Who else is there after those two?

Can Bayliss do the job that Kennedy was doing last year... Kennedy was down the pecking order, but could still come in and have an impact on the game when needed. Willison might be able to, but he's barely played Qcup and had shoulder recos in the off season... he will need time in Qcup to figure out his game and what works for him.

Willison, Quai-Ward and Mozer have barely played Qcup but may be relied on to play games throughout the year when origin (including resting), suspension, drop in form, and injury come into it. Quai-Ward less so due to the depth

Mariner looks NRL ready but has barely any Qcup or NRL experience, and Pereira, Arthars and Hoeter look to be able to perform a role if needed.

But ultimately at the moment guys like Piakura, Willison, Quai-Ward, Mozer, Bayliss and now TC are taking up 20% of the top 30 roster... but are they providing adequate depth and value for money.

Some of these guys have been given Top 30 spots purely to retain them, because of potential... which might work out, but it leaves very little depth to cover the starting 17 each week if you can't rely on them at any given point in the year.
 
1910 said:
Your depth doesn't have to match the career of the player above them- be an Origin player or Test player but they have to match the job.

You have to be confident that if Herbie was out for nine months from today could someone come in and have an NRL high quality season for the whole season. They don't have to be a Test player.

That's where my question marks come in if it was prolonged and under fatigue, pressure, stress would the depth hold up.

It's worst-case scenario but it's the true test of depth.
Click to expand...
100% I do!

Look that’s a fine way of looking at it and whilst I believe we have a number of options who could cover centre or wing for a long duration, even if you don’t, how many teams would you say do truly measure to your standard of true depth. I guess at the end of the day that still probably shows we are in the top half/quarter of depth still. We might not have the best back up options obviously Turuva stands out but we have a number of competent and still high level backups that can play 20 odd rounds of high quality and reliable footy.
 
Fitzy said:
100% I do!

Look that’s a fine way of looking at it and whilst I believe we have a number of options who could cover centre or wing for a long duration, even if you don’t, how many teams would you say do truly measure to your standard of true depth. I guess at the end of the day that still probably shows we are in the top half/quarter of depth still. We might not have the best back up options obviously Turuva stands out but we have a number of competent and still high level backups that can play 20 odd rounds of high quality and reliable footy.
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What do you base that 100% certainty on?

Hoeter has played seven NRL games twice in a season in 2015 and 2022.

Mariner two NRL and eight ISC games and hasn't played a full season at any level since school/MM.

Pereira most NRL games is 15 in 2020 in a year.

Quai Ward has never played a full season of ISC or an NRL game.

Can players surprise you- absolutely for sure. But look at that list and tell me two outside back injuries early in the season wouldn't cause problems.
 
BroncsFan said:
Yep and I can see a number of players in our Top 30 that are probably not capable of providing that true depth and are therefore not providing the value for money required of the roster spot... unless they suddenly become NRL quality overnight.

If we lost Riki or Capewell for 4-6 weeks due to an MCL who comes in to replace them.... noting we need them to play 80mins. Piakura has yet to have a consistent run of Qcup and Palasia isn't mobile enough. Who else is there after those two?

Can Bayliss do the job that Kennedy was doing last year... Kennedy was down the pecking order, but could still come in and have an impact on the game when needed. Willison might be able to, but he's barely played Qcup and had shoulder recos in the off season... he will need time in Qcup to figure out his game and what works for him.

Willison, Quai-Ward and Mozer have barely played Qcup but may be relied on to play games throughout the year when origin (including resting), suspension, drop in form, and injury come into it. Quai-Ward less so due to the depth

Mariner looks NRL ready but has barely any Qcup or NRL experience, and Pereira, Arthars and Hoeter look to be able to perform a role if needed.

But ultimately at the moment guys like Piakura, Willison, Quai-Ward, Mozer, Bayliss and now TC are taking up 20% of the top 30 roster... but are they providing adequate depth and value for money.

Some of these guys have been given Top 30 spots purely to retain them, because of potential... which might work out, but it leaves very little depth to cover the starting 17 each week if you can't rely on them at any given point in the year.
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Yeah, pretty much but about outside backs. I just have question marks. I think the points you've raised about the forwards are valid too.

As soon as things went wrong last season with injuries it couldn't be pegged back no changing or depth chart fixed it.

I think people see good/ok form in a trial and think he's good depth but to play a full NRL season or a lot of games takes a while. It's pretty rare to throw a guy in that's never done it and no dip in performance.
 
Wouldn’t the easiest way to demonstrate what you’re saying @1910 be to look at how the Storm (fuckers) do things.

They don’t have countless elite players sitting around waiting for their shot, but they do have a sprinkle of talent mixed in with role players. When they come in, the systems and structures are simple enough and so well drilled into them they just know what is required of them.

Of course there is a line with any club, lose enough of your core players and there is nothing anyone can do but limp home.

But the Storm seem to have easy to understand processes in place that allow the squad players to just parachute in and do their job. For the most part of course.

I think it’s fair to question whether we’ve got that with any of our depth players. Be that because they’re not quite ready, because the systems in place aren’t simple enough / understood or a combination of both. Regardless, it’s a very reasonable question.
 
1910 said:
Yeah, pretty much but about outside backs. I just have question marks. I think the points you've raised about the forwards are valid too.

As soon as things went wrong last season with injuries it couldn't be pegged back no changing or depth chart fixed it.

I think people see good/ok form in a trial and think he's good depth but to play a full NRL season or a lot of games takes a while. It's pretty rare to throw a guy in that's never done it and no dip in performance.
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Yeah but show me a club who can take 2 injuries and not struggle that isn’t otherwise already shit. That’s the true measurement of depth at the end of the day. How does your depth stack up against other teams and it does pretty well.

There’s a lot of teams whose second drop I wouldn’t give a contract let alone a run. Like people were saying Panthers before but they only have 2 depth outside backs and one of them is yet to debut, it’s a good system so he’d do fine but you chuck them two at any other club and they would be in struggle street as well. Like I’d say Penrith, Us, Roosters and Cows have the best back lines by a donkeys dick. The only 2 players that any of those 3 clubs have that wouldn’t hurt your side is Momorovski and Turuva. I’d say none of our players are quite at either of those levels but I’d be playing Mariner, Hoeter, Arthars and Pereira long before any other depth option between them.

You chuck in Eels and Sharks with decent back lines I’d argue Sharks probably are in the top few teams in terms of long term back up options with Ikavalu and Tracey as for the Eels who have a pretty good starting backline there depth can barely last 80 minutes in a season let alone 20 games.

Storm have awful depth, Rabbitohs depth isn’t very good, Raiders is decent, Dragons is not bad either, Knights is decent, Dogs is average, Warriors is decent, Titans is alright lack numbers though, Sea Eagles is average, Dolphins have decent depth but there starting side is predominantly of depth quality, Tigers starters are shit depth players let alone there actual depth and I think you get the picture.

We have a premiership quality backline in my opinion and I don’t think you can do much better than Pereira, Arthars, Mariner and Hoeter to back it up. 2 players with 40 games who would be the long termers, Hoeter proved to be reliable every game last year and Mariner is a young talented player who can genuinely emulate our starters performances from time to time. If you don’t rate that in the upper echolant of depth in the comp than really no point continuing to argue cause it’s clear we will never be aligned on this matter
 
Fitzy said:
Yeah but show me a club who can take 2 injuries and not struggle that isn’t otherwise already shit. That’s the true measurement of depth at the end of the day. How does your depth stack up against other teams and it does pretty well.

There’s a lot of teams whose second drop I wouldn’t give a contract let alone a run. Like people were saying Panthers before but they only have 2 depth outside backs and one of them is yet to debut, it’s a good system so he’d do fine but you chuck them two at any other club and they would be in struggle street as well. Like I’d say Penrith, Us, Roosters and Cows have the best back lines by a donkeys dick. The only 2 players that any of those 3 clubs have that wouldn’t hurt your side is Momorovski and Turuva. I’d say none of our players are quite at either of those levels but I’d be playing Mariner, Hoeter, Arthars and Pereira long before any other depth option between them.

You chuck in Eels and Sharks with decent back lines I’d argue Sharks probably are in the top few teams in terms of long term back up options with Ikavalu and Tracey as for the Eels who have a pretty good starting backline there depth can barely last 80 minutes in a season let alone 20 games.

Storm have awful depth, Rabbitohs depth isn’t very good, Raiders is decent, Dragons is not bad either, Knights is decent, Dogs is average, Warriors is decent, Titans is alright lack numbers though, Sea Eagles is average, Dolphins have decent depth but there starting side is predominantly of depth quality, Tigers starters are shit depth players let alone there actual depth and I think you get the picture.

We have a premiership quality backline in my opinion and I don’t think you can do much better than Pereira, Arthars, Mariner and Hoeter to back it up. 2 players with 40 games who would be the long termers, Hoeter proved to be reliable every game last year and Mariner is a young talented player who can genuinely emulate our starters performances from time to time. If you don’t rate that in the upper echolant of depth in the comp than really no point continuing to argue cause it’s clear we will never be aligned on this matter
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I think it was the Roosters a few years ago that had exhausted about 3 hooking options and were using second rowers toward the end of the season?

I seem to recall they had a fair few other injuries as well and may have applied for (and been granted (lol, of course they were)) some special exemption / approval from the NRL.

I remember they were still rather competitive, given the hurdles.

It remains fresh in my mind because there was this almost scripted NRL-wide sob story about how many injuries they had and the impacts it was having on their performances. All the while, the year before when we had half our team out it was the clubs problem for not having a better roster and shouldn’t be used as an excuse.
 
Mr Fourex said:
That was used as a cover up for his "mental fatigue" that he was apparently suffering from......
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Brain injuries often have the symptom of fatigue .

Why does a brain injury affect fatigue?​

You may have fatigue because your brain is working harder than it did before your injury. You may also be recovering from related problems, which can also take energy to heal. Your brain is trying to heal itself and do its best to help you function. It needs more energy than usual.

Brain injury can also disrupt sleep. If you often felt tired before your injury, you are at a higher risk for having fatigue problems after your injury.

https://www.brainline.org/article/fatigue-and-brain-injury
 
McHunt said:
Dearden came to us as a very confident young 7 and left broken. He's very much a 7 in waiting up there. I don't see us getting him back under the current coach.
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I think he just came into first grade at the wrong time for us, Mam would of been in a similar position if he was a few years older.

That said 7 is not a position for teens and early 20 year olds unless your Moonface in the current game, time to develop your skills is required I think, and when it comes to that I would honestly take Mam as our 6 over Dearden for that because he is a natural 6 who is much more athletic and has more physical ability.
 
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