Q-CUP Queensland Cup 2021

[ZTop]

The game wasn’t televised and there was maybe 1000 people there. Tell me how these opinions are formed if they’re not from the score sheet?

That’s not arrogance that’s logic.

Other games this year were and word of mouth

 

[NSW stables]

The game wasn’t televised and there was maybe 1000 people there. Tell me how these opinions are formed if they’re not from the score sheet?

That’s not arrogance that’s logic.

I can't say I have ever found 1910 to be arrogant. I have actually found contributors like 1910 and others that watch isc often really helpful as I can only watch the streamed games. I think what 1910 is saying (and I dont like to put words into people's mouths so correct me if I am wrong) is that some people (not all people) on the forums are calling for players to be prematurely elevated without watching full games. That is not necessarily a knock on others as they may not be able to watch full isc games, but should take into consideration all aspects of a player's game.

For instance, I am a huge fan of mam and his natural footy instincts and do think he should be doing a preseason with the broncos but his lack of line speed and misreads of common fullback sweep plays do concern me as these could be very easily exploited in first grade. So I hope he can improve this.

Conversely some, and not all, people write off players because they do not feature on as many highlights. One forum member i recall on another thread said that James was a bust and we should move on. However, james had only had 3 isc games at that time and from the games I watched (his debut and third) he had already shown a lot of improvement steering the team around, quite good kicking and acquired a few try assists.

 

[ZTop]

He is super helpful and I'm thankful to have him on this forum. I just have an issue with him on this specific matter

 

[1910]

I can't say I have ever found 1910 to be arrogant. I have actually found contributors like 1910 and others that watch isc often really helpful as I can only watch the streamed games. I think what 1910 is saying (and I dont like to put words into people's mouths so correct me if I am wrong) is that some people (not all people) on the forums are calling for players to be prematurely elevated without watching full games. That is not necessarily a knock on others as they may not be able to watch full isc games, but should take into consideration all aspects of a player's game.

For instance, I am a huge fan of mam and his natural footy instincts and do think he should be doing a preseason with the broncos but his lack of line speed and misreads of common fullback sweep plays do concern me as these could be very easily exploited in first grade. So I hope he can improve this.

Conversely some, and not all, people write off players because they do not feature on as many highlights. One forum member i recall on another thread said that James was a bust and we should move on. However, james had only had 3 isc games at that time and from the games I watched (his debut and third) he had already shown a lot of improvement steering the team around, quite good kicking and acquired a few try assists.

Pretty much, if I said I haven't read this book but seen this movie but here is my review you'd say go away that's stupid.

But say it about an ISC player and it's all good.

I can't believe some would argue not watching games shouldn't mean your opinion is dismissed.

That's just odd.

Highlights and stats give you a very limited window of a game, example this year Mam fielded a kick on his own line and ran 100m untouched to score in the first minute, he finished the game with 108m.

Someone on here said Mam ran over 100m how awesome! Well really he ran 8m in 79 minutes. Which changes his overall game significantly.

 

[Sproj]

Pretty much, if I said I haven't read this book but seen this movie but here is my review you'd say go away that's stupid.

But say it about an ISC player and it's all good.

I can't believe some would argue not watching games shouldn't mean your opinion is dismissed.

That's just odd.

Highlights and stats give you a very limited window of a game, example this year Mam fielded a kick on his own line and ran 100m untouched to score in the first minute, he finished the game with 108m.

Someone on here said Mam ran over 100m how awesome! Well really he ran 8m in 79 minutes. Which changes his overall game significantly.

I think (and I am not speaking for @GKDonkey as I am sure he can explain himself more if he feels the need) that the issue is with some sweeping generalisations that you insert at times that can seem condescending. Like in the original post that started this discussion about:

The fact they score tries is all people notice.

Obviously, this is something many people notice but for both Tass and Mam, they have been televised a bit (not as much as you have seen obviously) and there is a fair bit more about both that I think people like.

Tass goal kicks, he does have a good run and jink, he's also improved considerably throughout the season. Mam is super exciting but raw, most people have acknowledged that but he has a knack of being Johnny on the spot and has a lot of Cody Walker about him.

No one has said they are the complete package and most are just saying they would like to see them given shots in the trials with a view to working Mam into the team later in the season. Tass is behind Staggs, Herbie, Cobbs and Lee, so he is at this stage the 5th string centre option and there is nothing wrong with suggesting he is improving and is a bit underrated.

So long story short, sometimes you add sweeping generalisations and like to toot your own flute when you get something right, this does at times come across as arrogant or condescending, whether you think it does or not.

 

[ZTop]

Thanks @Sproj for taking the time to say what I was thinking. Anyways let's all move on. Hardly a big issue

 

[1910]

I think (and I am not speaking for @GKDonkey as I am sure he can explain himself more if he feels the need) that the issue is with some sweeping generalisations that you insert at times that can seem condescending. Like in the original post that started this discussion about:


Obviously, this is something many people notice but for both Tass and Mam, they have been televised a bit (not as much as you have seen obviously) and there is a fair bit more about both that I think people like.

Tass goal kicks, he does have a good run and jink, he's also improved considerably throughout the season. Mam is super exciting but raw, most people have acknowledged that but he has a knack of being Johnny on the spot and has a lot of Cody Walker about him.

No one has said they are the complete package and most are just saying they would like to see them given shots in the trials with a view to working Mam into the team later in the season. Tass is behind Staggs, Herbie, Cobbs and Lee, so he is at this stage the 5th string centre option and there is nothing wrong with suggesting he is improving and is a bit underrated.

So long story short, sometimes you add sweeping generalisations and like to toot your own flute when you get something right, this does at times come across as arrogant or condescending, whether you think it does or not.

If Mam had not scored a single try, you don't mention him ever. When he was playing MM and Colts I was the only one that mentioned him- because he wasn't scoring tries on tv.

He plays ISC and scores tries and he gets noticed. People notice tries. Which is all I said and it's 100% correct.

Take James for example, 17 tackles on Sunday in his first final, not a miss and kicked well- apart from the missed field goal- not a single mention- threw a pass that should be hanging in a gallery in France- not a single mention about it- he didn't score a try.

I didn't bag anyone I just said people notice the scorecard and tries and I 100% stand by that.

 

[ZTop]

If Mam had not scored a single try, you don't mention him ever. When he was playing MM and Colts I was the only one that mentioned him- because he wasn't scoring tries on tv.

He plays ISC and scores tries and he gets noticed. People notice tries. Which is all I said and it's 100% correct.

Take James for example, 17 tackles on Sunday in his first final, not a miss and kicked well- apart from the missed field goal- not a single mention- threw a pass that should be hanging in a gallery in France- not a single mention about it- he didn't score a try.

I didn't bag anyone I just said people notice the scorecard and tries and I 100% stand by that.

By the way, I thought Ezra mam appeared out of now and was wondering the other day if anyone had posted anything on him before he started playing Qld cup. When did he appear on the scene?

 

[Sproj]

If Mam had not scored a single try, you don't mention him ever. When he was playing MM and Colts I was the only one that mentioned him- because he wasn't scoring tries on tv.

He plays ISC and scores tries and he gets noticed. People notice tries. Which is all I said and it's 100% correct.

Take James for example, 17 tackles on Sunday in his first final, not a miss and kicked well- apart from the missed field goal- not a single mention- threw a pass that should be hanging in a gallery in France- not a single mention about it- he didn't score a try.

I didn't bag anyone I just said people notice the scorecard and tries and I 100% stand by that.

You have once again missed the point and have chosen to argue something that no one else is. No one cares if you are the first one to see someone and you mention the game last week that you have already said about only a thousand people saw because it wasn't televised, so why would anyone who wasn't there be talking about it? In the very limited games James has played that have been televised, he has obviously been spoken about.

Again, no one is arguing you might have seen someone first, no one. The point is, you talk down to others at times with sweeping generalisations and like to pump up your own tyres, this cannot legitimately be argued, even if you ignored this point almost entirely in your last post. I am going to leave it there because I know you will come back with a point we are not arguing or discussing.

 

[1910]

You have once again missed the point and have chosen to argue something that no one else is. No one cares if you are the first one to see someone and you mention the game last week that you have already said about only a thousand people saw because it wasn't televised, so why would anyone who wasn't there be talking about it? In the very limited games James has played that have been televised, he has obviously been spoken about.

Again, no one is arguing you might have seen someone first, no one. The point is, you talk down to others at times with sweeping generalisations and like to pump up your own tyres, this cannot legitimately be argued, even if you ignored this point almost entirely in your last post. I am going to leave it there because I know you will come back with a point we are not arguing or discussing.

It's you that is off track I was 100% all relevant, I am sticking to my people notice tries- as I backed up with my Ezra and James examples and you dodged.

 

[1910]

By the way, I thought Ezra mam appeared out of now and was wondering the other day if anyone had posted anything on him before he started playing Qld cup. When did he appear on the scene?

Played MM and Colts for Souths, went to school at Ambrose at Indro. He has been in Emerging Origin U16 and U18- Souths junior.

Had a lot of injuries in 2019 and then didn't play 2020 so like a lot of players he's unfairly behind at the moment.

 

[Sproj]

It’s worth considering that we’re chatting with regular people from all walks of life. I think that may include autistic or similar people. Of course, it’s more difficult to interpret and summise via text, but in general, it’s worth considering that we have absolutely no clue what each of our community members could be going through permanently or temporarily in terms of trying to understand another’s POV.

I am leaving it with my last post and to be honest, @1910 does offer the forum something with his insights on the Q Cup, so I also value what he brings even if he is a bit annoying at times. Let's be honest, we all are annoying at times and we like to discuss and sometimes argue and there is nothing wrong with that. :)

 

[ZTop]

Played MM and Colts for Souths, went to school at Ambrose at Indro. He has been in Emerging Origin U16 and U18- Souths junior.

Had a lot of injuries in 2019 and then didn't play 2020 so like a lot of players he's unfairly behind at the moment.

Ah okay thanks

 

[Big Pete]

I'd say Ezra first came onto the scene at U/15s when he was a stand-out at Nationals. That would have been 2018 so there you go.

I've been surprised by his ISC form in regards to his consistensy. He always seems to contribute one big attacking play each game but hasn't had a meltdown like a lot of young halves tend to.

I'm really not high on Tass. Hopefully another pre-seaon can work the kinks out but he just seems suited towards that ISC level.

 

[GCBRONCO]

 

[1910]

I wonder if more people will see this try than watch the whole game?

 

[1910]

I'd say Ezra first came onto the scene at U/15s when he was a stand-out at Nationals. That would have been 2018 so there you go.

I've been surprised by his ISC form in regards to his consistensy. He always seems to contribute one big attacking play each game but hasn't had a meltdown like a lot of young halves tend to.

I'm really not high on Tass. Hopefully another pre-seaon can work the kinks out but he just seems suited towards that ISC level.

I am hoping Lee being back at Souths might help his passing game. He can run but passing and tackling are his issues.

James is good for him too.

Souths wanted to get permission to play him before 18 like they did with Boyd but he wanted to play MM and some Colts. I like that. He’s mature and responsible.

ISC is Tass’ level.

 

[Jedhead]

It’s worth considering that we’re chatting with regular people from all walks of life. I think that may include autistic or similar people. Of course, it’s more difficult to interpret and summise via text, but in general, it’s worth considering that we have absolutely no clue what each of our community members could be going through permanently or temporarily in terms of trying to understand another’s POV.

Such a compassionate post @soup. I think I need me some of that gear you so fondly speak of.