Ricky Stuart is a fraud

[KingWebcke]

It was also compounded by the fact that he'd painted himself in to a corner - when Dugan went down with injury, Hayne was the logical choice. But again Ricky cut off his nose to spite his face, selecting an ageing Miniciello at fullback (who was, in the end, quite solid), and Hayne ending up on the wing, and then the centres. More hypocrisy, and more face-saving, all coated in some very flimsy excuses.

I don't think Stuart went with Minichiello because he didn't want to back down over Hayne.

I just don't think he likes Hayne that much as a fullback plus he has always had a weird thing for Minichiello. before he was coach I remember him writing articles in the DT about how Mini should be brought back to Origin ... I think he just likes fullbacks who play that Dugan/Mini style

I can't. Because all he ever did was bring in existing 1st grade halves from elsewhere, chew them up, and spit them out. Who knows if he even recruited or promoted young halves, for all I could tell his only depth/cover was throwing a back-rower in.

I don't think that is a good answer at all. if you want to criticise a coach for not developing a half then you should have good evidence of it.

you could level that criticism at Hook because he did have a decent prospect (Hunt) in the wings but chose to persist with Wallace for years and then chose to recruit Prince instead of blooding Hunt ...

you could level that Steve Price because he chose to play a broken down retiree at halfback all year when the Dragons apparently have a few good young halves (Drinkwater and Kyle Stanley?) waiting in line ...

you could criticise Furner for that because he took a really promising young halfback (Williams) and dicked him around and never really showed faith in him

but if you want to criticise Stuart I think you need to be able to show something similar. I think he just didn't develop any young halves because he never had anyone promising to work on. After all, both the Roosters and Sharks have pretty weak farm systems ... in the last decade those two clubs have really only produced one good half (Pearce)

 

[Socnorb]

Let's not forget hunt is still a young man, in fact, now at an age that we used to see first grade players emerge, players like Wally Lewis.

 

[KingWebcke]

Let's not forget hunt is still a young man, in fact, now at an age that we used to see first grade players emerge, players like Wally Lewis.

not really, Hunt is at the older end of the scale for young halfbacks. Lewis was playing first grade regularly at 19, a premiership player and Queensland rep at 20 and earned his first national cap at 21. Ben Hunt didn't secure a starting spot until he was 23.

 

[john1420]

Okay, here's my Ricky Rant.... He is a liar, he is a hypocrite, he is a fraud.

"LOVE"

For when 'like' just doesn't cut it

 

[Broncoman]

This isn't football related but it's Ricky related and this a thread about him. Has anyone ever seen or heard about this? it's great that Ricky does this for disadvantaged and autistic kids they need all the support they can get and I know from personal experience.

 

[Morkel]

I don't think Stuart went with Minichiello because he didn't want to back down over Hayne.

I just don't think he likes Hayne that much as a fullback plus he has always had a weird thing for Minichiello. before he was coach I remember him writing articles in the DT about how Mini should be brought back to Origin ... I think he just likes fullbacks who play that Dugan/Mini style

In my opinion, it's exactly why he didn't choose Hayne at fullback. If there's one thing Ricky does more than anything else, it's that he does some very stupid things purely out of stubbornness and to save face. If he didn't think Hayne was a fullback, why did he recruit Norman to the Eels as a half, and release their next best fullback (Mullaney)? Sure, it's a different story at club level where you don't have a large pool of similar players, but releasing Mullaney speaks volumes.

I don't think that is a good answer at all. if you want to criticise a coach for not developing a half then you should have good evidence of it.

you could level that criticism at Hook because he did have a decent prospect (Hunt) in the wings but chose to persist with Wallace for years and then chose to recruit Prince instead of blooding Hunt ...

you could level that Steve Price because he chose to play a broken down retiree at halfback all year when the Dragons apparently have a few good young halves (Drinkwater and Kyle Stanley?) waiting in line ...

you could criticise Furner for that because he took a really promising young halfback (Williams) and dicked him around and never really showed faith in him

but if you want to criticise Stuart I think you need to be able to show something similar. I think he just didn't develop any young halves because he never had anyone promising to work on. After all, both the Roosters and Sharks have pretty weak farm systems ... in the last decade those two clubs have really only produced one good half (Pearce)

Ah, but you see, I have criticised both Hook about Hunt, and Price about Fien. I didn't criticise Furner though - because I wasn't paying much attention. But I agree that it was poor management.

The thing is, we'll never know who could have been the next decent half at the Roosters / Sharks / Eels etc. Looking at their rosters, it's like Stuart avoided promoting or recruiting halves like the plague. I can't name names because there aren't any! In fact, unless you were a back-rower that could offload, a back-rower with a bit of ball-playing skills, or an outside back built like a back-rower, Stuart wasn't interested. Which again shows that Stuart was not and is not interested in developing players - he likes to recruit established players or just blindly hope that a young prospect's natural talents are enough. That's not coaching, that's playing fantasy football.

 

[KingWebcke]

In my opinion, it's exactly why he didn't choose Hayne at fullback. If there's one thing Ricky does more than anything else, it's that he does some very stupid things purely out of stubbornness and to save face. If he didn't think Hayne was a fullback, why did he recruit Norman to the Eels as a half, and release their next best fullback (Mullaney)? Sure, it's a different story at club level where you don't have a large pool of similar players, but releasing Mullaney speaks volumes.

I think Mullaney was an absolute spud from the games I saw ... I thought that is why he got released. The Eels have Ken Sio, who is apparently a far more promising fullback.

but anyway, I think you're criticising Stuart for the wrong thing here. Stuart's failing is quite obvious to me: he just has a really outdated view of fullbacks. he loves a fullback who runs hard and supports well and hasn't realised that a modern fullback can also be a creative playmaker. I think that's the reason why he initially chose Dugan over Hayne, why he has always adored Mini and why he went with Stewart over Hayne again.

But instead you've tried to make your criticism of Sticky really viciously personal, as if the real reason Stuart is an average coach is because he is a despicable human being rather than because he makes some dumb tactical decisions (such as bizarre selections at fullback or the insatiable need for more backrowers).

you don't need Ricky Stuart to have a tragic personality flaw that is his ultimate undoing. I'd agree with you far more if you were actually just criticising Stuart for having some blindspots in his rugby league brain rather than making it a character assassination.

I mean, I like Stuart but even I can't defend his bizarre choices of fullbacks, his odd recruitment policies or the fact that he loves to go into games with 4 backrowers on the bench. I think those are excellent examples of the fact that he just has some weird (dumb in my opinion) coaching strategies.

 

[KingWebcke]

The thing is, we'll never know who could have been the next decent half at the Roosters / Sharks / Eels etc. Looking at their rosters, it's like Stuart avoided promoting or recruiting halves like the plague. I can't name names because there aren't any

the other answer could be that he avoiding promoting halves like the plague because there were none coming through. For him to promote a young half and develop him, there had to be one in the Flegg team or in the reserve grade team ... at the Roosters and Sharks I don't think there were any.

If you want to criticise Stuart for a specific failing then I think it is pretty reasonable to ask for specific examples ... players he should have promoted but didn't.

 

[broncos4life]

I think Mullaney was an absolute spud from the games I saw ... I thought that is why he got released. The Eels have Ken Sio, who is apparently a far more promising fullback.

but anyway, I think you're criticising Stuart for the wrong thing here. Stuart's failing is quite obvious to me: he just has a really outdated view of fullbacks. he loves a fullback who runs hard and supports well and hasn't realised that a modern fullback can also be a creative playmaker. I think that's the reason why he initially chose Dugan over Hayne, why he has always adored Mini and why he went with Stewart over Hayne again.

But instead you've tried to make your criticism of Sticky really viciously personal, as if the real reason Stuart is an average coach is because he is a despicable human being rather than because he makes some dumb tactical decisions (such as bizarre selections at fullback or the insatiable need for more backrowers).

you don't need Ricky Stuart to have a tragic personality flaw that is his ultimate undoing. I'd agree with you far more if you were actually just criticising Stuart for having some blindspots in his rugby league brain rather than making it a character assassination.

I mean, I like Stuart but even I can't defend his bizarre choices of fullbacks, his odd recruitment policies or the fact that he loves to go into games with 4 backrowers on the bench. I think those are excellent examples of the fact that he just has some weird (dumb in my opinion) coaching strategies.

How has he made his point 'viciously personal', obviously you are taking it that way because you seem to idolise the guy for some reason. Ricky is an average coach that kills the confidence of most players, in particular his halves. He was a great player but an average coach. His recent list of non achievements and players with crippled confidence is all the evidence needed.

From all accounts he seems to be a good bloke and a family man, but he's an average coach... I don't see how his personal life or playing career change that.

 

[KingWebcke]

How has he made his point 'viciously personal', obviously you are taking it that way because you seem to idolise the guy for some reason.

so far Morkel has called Stuart a liar, a hypocrite, a fraud, an idiot and has repeatedly brought up Stuart's stubbornness and arrogance. and even when he could have just criticised Stuart for bad selections (re Hayne), it still becomes a criticism of Stuart's two-faced nature.

I don't see how you think describing someone as two-faced or calling them an idiot and a liar isn't personal and vicious.

 

[broncos4life]

so far Morkel has called Stuart a liar, a hypocrite, a fraud, an idiot and has repeatedly brought up Stuart's stubbornness and arrogance. and even when he could have just criticised Stuart for bad selections (re Hayne), it still becomes a criticism of Stuart's two-faced nature.

I don't see how you think describing someone as two-faced or calling them an idiot and a liar isn't personal and vicious.

But what he has said is true.

Liar - many times publicly but most recently "I'm here to coach parra for the long haul"... Nekminnit

Hypocrite - runs out on parra for 'family reasons', Milford has asked for a release to return home to his sick dad "nah mate you gotta stay, here have some money"

Idiot - well that's debatable. I don't think he's an idiot but at the same time I don't reckon Mensa is calling either

 

[KingWebcke]

But what he has said is true.

that is a matter of opinion. and even if some of it is true, it doesn't mean it isn't personal or vicious.

 

[Morkel]

that is a matter of opinion. and even if some of it is true, it doesn't mean it isn't personal or vicious.

The fact that people can't see throgh Ricky's BS is personally offensive to me and my faith in the human race ;)

 

[Broncoman]

In a couple of other threads i've seen some people say Stuart hasn't developed any players when he has developed some players.

His 1st coaching assignment was just after he finished playing. He coached the Bulldogs Jersey Flegg team to the title in 2001. The team contained the likes of JT, Matt Utai, Roy Asotasi and Ben Harris who were part of the 2004 Bulldogs premiership and succeeded in first-grade the next year.

At the Roosters he developed the career of Anthony Minichiello and made the classy winger into a gun fullback. The move conspired with the Roosters playing some of their best footy for years. He also developed Justin Hodges, Brett Finch, Chris Flannery, Shannon Hegarty, Michael Croker, Craig Fitzgibbon, Craig Wing and others all played their first and for some their only rep matches under him.

At Cronulla he developed Greg Bird and Paul Gallen greatly as they became fully fledged representative players under him and improved their games to a great degree. He also helped Kade Snowden develop and Snowden is a highly rated player.

Development isn't a great part of Stuart's abilities as coach but he has made some high profile players better players throughout his career.

 

[Porthoz]

He developped Justin Hodges?

 

[Big Pete]

While fans over-exagerated (shock gasp) I don't think Stuart has been that instrumental in a lot of careers.

Just using the examples you gave...

Bulldogs - That was the Bulldogs third Jersey Flegg premiership winning team and a lot of those players had already been established under Kevin Moore or Terry Lamb who coached the Dogs to a First Division win in 2000. You could argue JT but really he didn't become the player he did until he linked up with Graham Murray.

Roosters - Sticky took over at just the right time. Now credit to him, these were definitely his greatest years as a coach but he did barely anything in regards to development and it's pretty easy to be succesful when you have a legend like Brad Fittler all to yourself. Let's go through some of the names listed

Minichiello - Was already a gun back before Sticky got there, scoring 14 tries the previous season.

Hodges - He came through our system and we invested heavily into his development only for him to come along and poach him. Smart recruitment from the Roosters, not a whole lot of work involved there and look at the player he was in 2004.

Finch - Developed at the Raiders from 99-02 before the Roosters pinched him, got one good season out of him and then he became a walking punchline.

Flannery - Developed under Murray, was never that much to write home about. A solid player who could get a job done.

Hegarty - Developed under Murray, decent finisher for a time but like a lot of wingers, once he lost his speed he didn't have anything else to offer.

Crocker - Developed under Murray, became a hot head under Stuart to the point where the club was happy to get rid of him. Bellamy revived his career for a time before he began to slow down.

Fitzgibbon - Had already played two grand finals before Stuart came aboard.

Wing - Was already a player to watch in his Souths days and was already a weapon for the Roosters by 2001 where he scored 16 tries.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only name that really stands out to me as a player he truly developed was Tupou and even then it was sort of a self fulfilling prophecy because he only made his rep debut after Sticky selected him for the Tri Nations in 06.

If anything, there are more examples of careers Sticky stuffed up at the Roosters than any of them he made.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both Bird and Gallen were already well on their way before Sticky arrived. At one point in 06 they had the best backrow going and were entrenched in the Top 4 until a losing streak (which we started) saw them fall out of the 8. By the time Stuart arrived, Gallen had already played Origin and Bird was on his way and if anything, it took until 2011 for Gallen to become the player he did at Origin level.

There maybe other examples of players he did develop, but they don't come to mind right away.
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Parramatta is going to be an interesting team to look at in years to come because Sticky did blood a ton of players last year and it'll be interesting to see if many players really step up.

Similar story with the Raiders.

 

[broncos4life]

In a couple of other threads i've seen some people say Stuart hasn't developed any players when he has developed some players.

His 1st coaching assignment was just after he finished playing. He coached the Bulldogs Jersey Flegg team to the title in 2001. The team contained the likes of JT, Matt Utai, Roy Asotasi and Ben Harris who were part of the 2004 Bulldogs premiership and succeeded in first-grade the next year.

At the Roosters he developed the career of Anthony Minichiello and made the classy winger into a gun fullback. The move conspired with the Roosters playing some of their best footy for years. He also developed Justin Hodges, Brett Finch, Chris Flannery, Shannon Hegarty, Michael Croker, Craig Fitzgibbon, Craig Wing and others all played their first and for some their only rep matches under him.

At Cronulla he developed Greg Bird and Paul Gallen greatly as they became fully fledged representative players under him and improved their games to a great degree. He also helped Kade Snowden develop and Snowden is a highly rated player.

Development isn't a great part of Stuart's abilities as coach but he has made some high profile players better players throughout his career.

Tell me more about how Ricky Stuart developed Justin hodges? Lol

 

[ivanhungryjak]

Or Chris Walker