POST GAME Round 15 - Knights vs Broncos

[Culhwch]

...let's not be ignorant to the idea that at the moment we look absolutely shithouse...

Oh, I don't think anyone could be ignorant to that!!
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Going 6 of 8 against the top 4 teams last year.

Beating teams in the regular season means nothing if you can't do it when it actually matters, though. That's kind of the definition of a contender.

 

[Kooly87]

Whilst I approve of the current clean out and I think Seibold has been wonderful in giving young guys a crack for the most part that probably wouldn't have happened under Bennett as quickly or completely, the distressing part for me is that a number of guys have had their game regress to varying degrees under Seibold.

I'm not levelling the blame entirely at him, but it is concerning that guys like Isaako, TPJ, Ofahengaue, Su'a just to name a few are all arguably playing worse than they were 1-2 seasons ago. That's not even throwing Boyd and Macca into the mix who have both gone so dramatically backwards in their game that its hard to put that on Seibold.

 

[Morepudding]

No we weren’t. We had an over 60% win rate with Bennett and this clown has us at 35%. If you think we’d be this much of a clusterfuck under Bennett you need your head read.

We already have as many losses this season as we did in Bennett’s poorest performing season, and it’s round 15. Fucking hell

We were only getting further away from a premiership the longer Bennett was here though. I'm glad he's gone. I can't fault Seibold too much because honestly the players we have aren't that good. A bunch of overrated players and a bunch of kids who are far too inconsistent.

 

[tommy]

Going 6 of 8 against the top 4 teams last year.

Genuine contenders tend to at least make the prelims and put up a fight.

 

[Huge]

He’s almost 70.

The chances of him not being able to coach (or coach well if you’d prefer) much longer, for a number of different reasons, are much higher than someone who is 40-50.

It really is that simple.

I guess what I’m trying to say is; if you’re lucky enough, Father Time catches up with everyone.

Yes, all true however WB had stated he didn't intend to coach until senility, dementia or physical incapacity prevented him from continuing. My preference was always that the coaches swapped clubs at the end of this year and it could have benefited the Broncos insomuch as they would have had an extra year to gauge Seibolds strengths and weaknesses (if any became apparent) Anyway, it's all history now. I just think WB is still capable and firing on all cylinders and he may have moved Boyd and Macca to one side (yes, probably not but we won't ever be certain) I just cannot accept we'd be in 14th had he stayed but do acknowledge 15th and 16th were possible and improbable outcomes for WB.

 

[broncsgoat]

Oh, I don't think anyone could be ignorant to that!!
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Beating teams in the regular season means nothing if you can't do it when it actually matters, though. That's kind of the definition of a contender.

So you take a one game sample size over an 8 game sample size?

We had a shocker in the final, no doubt. But we also showed we had the cattle to dismantle souths and the roosters in 2 of the previous 3 weeks.

We're playing like busteds this season and all of a sudden the team is full of no hoper's. Well that team of no hoper's managed to get more wins against top 4 teams last year than we've managed to get in the entirety of this season.

 

[Tomato Sorcerer]

Imagine the screaming in the coaches box if bellamy was here. And when he’s not screaming he’d have his head buried in his hands. For his heath alone I’m glad he isn’t here this year.

Haha it would be kinda funny to see him to take the rage to another level..
I wonder what sort of effect it would have on the playing group..

 

[Morepudding]

I agree those sides were better on paper but I still think with the players we had available at the start of the year we should be making the top 8 and now that is not going to happen.

Yeah we might have made the top 8, and we might have made the top 8 again next year, but the team we had last year, the year before, this year or next year wouldn't have been a real premiership threat. Yes we are doing shit but we needed this. We have had too many average players for too long and finally some of those are being moved on. This year we will miss the 8, next year we probably will too (unless we get a big signing or 5...), but in 2021 or 2022 (when boyd has definitely fucked off for good), we might actually be able to have a decent team together.

 

[Kooly87]

Yes, all true however WB had stated he didn't intend to coach until senility, dementia or physical incapacity prevented him from continuing. My preference was always that the coaches swapped clubs at the end of this year and it could have benefited the Broncos insomuch as they would have had an extra year to gauge Seibolds strengths and weaknesses (if any became apparent) Anyway, it's all history now. I just think WB is still capable and firing on all cylinders and he may have moved Boyd and Macca to one side (yes, probably not but we won't ever be certain) I just cannot accept we'd be in 14th had he stayed but do acknowledge 15th and 16th were possible and improbable outcomes for WB.

I don't see an outcome with Bennett that would have us languishing in 13th at this point. History shows his sides are hardly ever this consistently poor.

That said, I didn't see a Premiership in the next 3 seasons coming under him either. I think we'd have put in a hard fought 6th-8th placed performance for all three seasons with an exit in the first week or two of the finals. Nothing ventured and nothing really gained. We'd have also likely lost some of the upcoming talent over those years as they consistently struggled to get a run at NRL level.

I don't rate Ash Taylor, but I think there are too many examples of guys like him and Jai Arrow in recent years who just didn't trust in Bennett or the Broncos for whatever reason to provide a pathway into the NRL.

 

[Foordy]

I disagree - I am not sure if you follow european football/soccer, but this idea is trotted out frequently and most of the time ends up being total bullshit - money wasted, time wasted, careers wasted.

A coach needs to coach first and foremost and show that he can improve the team through that alone. Thus far, we haven't seen any evidence of that. I think the onus is on him to show that although he might not have some of the cattle to play his style, he still can put an obvious blueprint on the team and improve some of the players. Can you honestly say any player looks better under Seibold than they did under WB?

European soccer has systems in place to allow coaches to get the teams they want quicker (like trading, loans etc,) ... Oh and no salary cap.

 

[heartly87]

It has taken Nathan Brown 2 years to get his team competitive again. Newcastle of 16 and us now have very similar issues.

Wayne seems to favour raiding his old teams for talent. St George got Broncos, Newcastle got St George players, Broncos got Newcastle players and now Souths are getting Broncos. Other then that Wayne doesnt play the market hard it seems.

I can see our year being better but was our future going to be better in the long run. I love Wayne and always have but not above the club and i feel since Wayne left the first time we have never really been the same. 2015 was a great year but we had a good mix of talent and the balance was there across the park. The roster i feel wasn't managed that well in proceeding years. Seibs needs at least as long as Brown to force change.

 

[broncsgoat]

It has taken Nathan Brown 2 years to get his team competitive again. Newcastle of 16 and us now have very similar issues.

Wayne seems to favour raiding his old teams for talent. St George got Broncos, Newcastle got St George players, Broncos got Newcastle players and now Souths are getting Broncos. Other then that Wayne doesnt play the market hard it seems.

I can see our year being better but was our future going to be better in the long run. I love Wayne and always have but not above the club and i feel since Wayne left the first time we have never really been the same. 2015 was a great year but we had a good mix of talent and the balance was there across the park. The roster i feel wasn't managed that well in proceeding years. Seibs needs at least as long as Brown to force change.

Difference is Brown took over a complete fucking basket case. We made the finals last year and won 15 matches.

 

[Kooly87]

Difference is Brown took over a complete fucking basket case. We made the finals last year and won 15 matches.

Yep, Brown getting it done in 2-3 years by rights probably means Seibold has 1-2 seasons at most.

 

[PNG Broncos fan88]

True, despite the Dragons loss in the semi - on our day, we could beat anyone (except Storm) from 2015 till 2018.

Now we have become a basket case, Titans and Bulldogs are way more threatening in attack than our insipid efforts.

 

[broncsgoat]

True, despite the Dragons loss in the semi - on our day, we could beat anyone (except Storm) from 2015 till 2018.

Now we have become a basket case, Titans and Bulldogs are way more threatening in attack than our insipid efforts.

Thats obviously Wayne's fault though.

 

[Renegade]

European soccer has systems in place to allow coaches to get the teams they want quicker (like trading, loans etc,) ... Oh and no salary cap.

Yes and no. Having no salary cap and transfer fees undoubtedly accelerates the process, but it is not uncommon for a team to improve or significantly regress based on a new coaches tactics without any, or with minimal changes to the squad. Hence, it's even more imperative for a coach in the NRL to show they are able to coach improvement out of the squad at their disposal because they cannot as easily slice and dice their roster.

If the only pre-requisite of the job was being given enough time to get the squad you want, half of us on the forum could put together a competitive team.

 

[Culhwch]

So you take a one game sample size over an 8 game sample size?

Did I miss the part of the grand final where Cronk took the stage to announce that even though the Roosters had beaten the Storm, the Broncos had beaten the Roosters a couple of months earlier so they were the true champions? I might have, I wasn't actually watching.

You seem to put a large emphasis on the total in the wins column, which, fine, yeah, that's all well and good. I tend to look more at the nature of those wins, and more importantly the nature of the losses.

It's great to say that a team can beat anyone on their day, but isn't that just code for 'this team is consistently inconsistent, and if they can bother to get their heads on the game at hand and get a favourable bounce of the ball, sure, they might get a win, but they might also get flogged'.

It's been a long time since I heard anyone say the Melbourne Storm can beat anyone on their day. People mostly just say they can beat anyone. That's what I want the Broncos to get back to. They weren't that under Bennett, and they weren't getting any closer either.

 

[abashii]

Yes and no. Having no salary cap and transfer fees undoubtedly accelerates the process, but it is not uncommon for a team to improve or significantly regress based on a new coaches tactics without any, or with minimal changes to the squad. Hence, it's even more imperative for a coach in the NRL to show they are able to coach improvement out of the squad at their disposal because they cannot as easily slice and dice their roster.

If the only pre-requisite of the job was being given enough time to get the squad you want, half of us on the forum could put together a competitive team.

Absolutely. With so many other clubs able to pick the eyes out of our team (e.g St George putting in a $6M offer for Hunt) and injuries popping up at random, any plan which relies on having the team you want on the park is almost certainly doomed to failure. Obviously putting together a good list is important but for mine great coaching is about getting the best out of the players you have.