POST GAME Round 15 - Knights vs Broncos

[abashii]

Your post makes valid points, and I would totally agree with you if this hypothetical poster was providing fair and balanced posts. That is, providing criticism where it is due, even regularly, but also providing praise where it is appropriate. In the case of @Acceand @broncsgoat you will struggle to find anything other than a negative post about Seibold from the outset. That is an agenda at work.

I dunno mate. I try to spend more effort reading people's posts and less on who they are, but there's a metric shitload of negativity about. How many here never had a positive word to say about Bennett, about Boyd, Macca, Roberts or any of the other whipping boys? Agendas (I really feel like agendae should be the more common term though) are everywhere, the people who say that this year isn't Siebold's fault, are they generally balanced enough to say that would also mean last year's results weren't his doing either?

 

[CaptainHook]

So, who would you gave signed then? Do you think if we kept Bennett on this year with a similar and continuing breakdown between him and management, with the reporting that would have given rise to, that we would be better off? Do you think having Bennett at the club when we were trying to re-sign the players off-contract would have been helpful? You have seen his actions this year from Souths.

Yeah I dunno mate. They're all good questions.

From what I've read, the prevailing wisdom seems to be if Bennett was still our coach we'd be in only a marginally better position than we are now.

Personally, I would've avoided a lot of the reporting surrounding Bennett if he'd remained.

I realise though that seems to be a bit of a departure from most Broncos fans who just accept whatever their News Limited overlords tell them.

I suggested Des Hasler as coach. He's experienced. He's successful. He's been at different clubs. No doubt being a part of successful teams as well as struggling ones has made him a more rounded coach. Probably has a feel for what works and what doesn't. Win, lose or draw Manly are a tough side this year - something we're lacking.

I also pointed out the essential weirdness of this obsession sports fans have with coaches.

It's a logic problem. You can't sack 30 players and club administrators certainly aren't going to sack themselves. Whether they are the problem or not, the coach will cop it. Every time.

I think the weather and the crowd probably have more of an effect on how a team performs than anything a coach says or does during the week.

 

[lynx000]

Yeah I dunno mate. They're all good questions.

From what I've read, the prevailing wisdom seems to be if Bennett was still our coach we'd be in only a marginally better position than we are now.

Personally, I would've avoided a lot of the reporting surrounding Bennett if he'd remained.

I realise though that seems to be a bit of a departure from most Broncos fans who just accept whatever their News Limited overlords tell them.

I suggested Des Hasler as coach. He's experienced. He's successful. He's been at different clubs. No doubt being a part of successful teams as well as struggling ones has made him a more rounded coach. Probably has a feel for what works and what doesn't. Win, lose or draw Manly are a tough side this year - something we're lacking.

I also pointed out the essential weirdness of this obsession sports fans have with coaches.

It's a logic problem. You can't sack 30 players and club administrators certainly aren't going to sack themselves. Whether they are the problem or not, the coach will cop it. Every time.

I think the weather and the crowd probably have more of an effect on how a team performs than anything a coach says or does during the week.

Fair post. Yes, Hasler would have been a good option I agree with you. I wonder if he would have been willing to come up here. On another thread I have mused whether we might have been better off with Madge to sort out the cultural and attitude issues.

 

[bronx89]

That's rubbish. Should anyone who criticises our players be told to bugger off and find a new team to follow? If I've got opinions re whether Milford is/isn't a fullback, Boyd should be played at centre/qcup/sacked or whether it's all really Macca's fault are you going to tell me to support the boys or gtfo? And if not, why is the coach underperforming so very different?

Seibold came here as the next great coach who was going to take us to the next level. Unfortunately thus far that level seems to be the basement and there's not really any signs the rest of the season will be any better. Just like some of our players he's on a long term contract and just like those same players if he can't deliver then he can find a new job at a club that welcomes mediocrity.

Wah wah wah... little baby abashii
Jumping the gun as usual and missing the point...
Nobody wants to hear the continual whinge. If you don’t like what the broncos have done as a club good or bad don’t support them... or don’t fucking sit here and whinge constantly

 

[Accept]

Ah no, do your research before you make generalisations about me, I was never predicting a premiership or top 4. You are another of his ilk though. If you disagree with the decision to move Bennett on, vote with your feet and go and support someone else. Your constant negativity adds nothing to this place.

Yes, another one of those "go support someone else" posts. These are becoming commonplace on here. If my (or others) posts are hurting your feelings and making you sad, you can always use the BLOCK button. This page is interesting because it's members have various viewpoints and opinions. You might be more suited to one of those fanboy groups.

 

[Sproj]

In fairness to the Broncos, they DID try to get the best, unfortunately it was leaked to the media and then Bennett had an ongoing tantrum about it. As a result, the club needed to choose somebody.

Bennett had to go, the side was getting further and further away from being a contender but the best option didn’t want to come.

I suspect Madge was number 2 just quietly but the Tigers snapped him up fairly quickly I think (could be wrong).

Hasler had so many salary cap shades hanging over him, I understand why the club didn’t go there.

In the end, it came down to a choice between Siebs, Walters and Dinosaurius.

The Broncs went with what they thought was the most promising option and I can’t fault them for that after basically being forced into it.

The length of contract is a head scratcher but it does show Siebs has been given a bit of leeway and power which he is trying to use as best as possible, even not always successfully doing so.

 

[Kimlo]

Your post makes valid points, and I would totally agree with you if this hypothetical poster was providing fair and balanced posts. That is, providing criticism where it is due, even regularly, but also providing praise where it is appropriate. In the case of @Acceand @broncsgoat you will struggle to find anything other than a negative post about Seibold from the outset. That is an agenda at work.

What's wrong with an agenda if you've got a decent reason for it?

There's plenty of players I think are trash first graders and I would be livid if the club ever signed them. Why should the coach be exempt from that same type of criticism? Now don't get me wrong, if we sign a player/coach we should all get behind that player/coach until they've proven otherwise.

The first problem with Seibold is plenty of people were never going to be sold on him from the outset, he has no record, Souths were very flat at the backend of last year and had a meek exit from the finals.

That's the entirety of Seibold's record prior to his tenure here. We've then went on to have one of our worst ever starts to a season. We sit 14th on the ladder with team 15 and 16 both having a BYE next round so if we go onto lose next week, which looks likely, we'll be a whole 2 points off the wooden spoon going into round 17. We've had poor runs under Bennett but we've never missed the 8 under him and we were a single win off top spot last year. It's totally understandable why people would be pretty low on the Seibold love.

I'm not advocating for his immediate dismissal, I think he should be given until at least next season to see what he can do. Ultimately we've signed him for 5 years on big money which I was never a fan of but we have to let it play out, with the club giving him all the support they can to ensure he can turn this squad around. They've signed him for 5 years, they need to fully commit all the resources and support necessary for him to see out his vision as a coach but he really does need to "see" that out away from the bottom of the ladder.

What would I have done if I had any input? Two options. Go all out to sign Bellamy for 2019 and immediately pay out Wayne's contract, or give Bennett another year to finish his contract out, Seibold get's another year at Souths and we'd be in a much better position to assess if Seibold is worth a long term deal. I still never saw the immediate pressing need to get rid of Wayne at the end of 2018. I wouldn't have renewed his contract if we didn't improve our finals position in 2019 though.

 

[Xzei]

Bellamy was never going to sign here imo just a way to get Melbourne to pony up more cash.and as for Hasler didn’t he kinda leave the bulldogs with a crippled roster due to back ending contracts?

 

[Gaz]

Is there not a rule that other teams can't coerce players to break contracts
Jimmy spoke to Bennett and requests release
Sua spoke to Bennett and requests release

Watching Roberts play in their 4th lose in a row on Thu nite I couldn't noticeably see any difference in his game from what he offered here before being dropped. Criticism the next day we’re along the lines of hm not getting enough ball. Much the same as what happened here. I'll be interested to see if Su'a goes any better as will all any other player Bennetts made contact with.

 

[lynx000]

What's wrong with an agenda if you've got a decent reason for it?

There's plenty of players I think are trash first graders and I would be livid if the club ever signed them. Why should the coach be exempt from that same type of criticism? Now don't get me wrong, if we sign a player/coach we should all get behind that player/coach until they've proven otherwise.

The first problem with Seibold is plenty of people were never going to be sold on him from the outset, he has no record, Souths were very flat at the backend of last year and had a meek exit from the finals.

That's the entirety of Seibold's record prior to his tenure here. We've then went on to have one of our worst ever starts to a season. We sit 14th on the ladder with team 15 and 16 both having a BYE next round so if we go onto lose next week, which looks likely, we'll be a whole 2 points off the wooden spoon going into round 17. We've had poor runs under Bennett but we've never missed the 8 under him and we were a single win off top spot last year. It's totally understandable why people would be pretty low on the Seibold love.

I'm not advocating for his immediate dismissal, I think he should be given until at least next season to see what he can do. Ultimately we've signed him for 5 years on big money which I was never a fan of but we have to let it play out, with the club giving him all the support they can to ensure he can turn this squad around. They've signed him for 5 years, they need to fully commit all the resources and support necessary for him to see out his vision as a coach but he really does need to "see" that out away from the bottom of the ladder.

What would I have done if I had any input? Two options. Go all out to sign Bellamy for 2019 and immediately pay out Wayne's contract, or give Bennett another year to finish his contract out, Seibold get's another year at Souths and we'd be in a much better position to assess if Seibold is worth a long term deal. I still never saw the immediate pressing need to get rid of Wayne at the end of 2018. I wouldn't have renewed his contract if we didn't improve our finals position in 2019 though.

Another fair post, I do not disagree with you at all. In no way way was I suggesting that Seibold should be above criticism. We did miss the finals twice under Bennett btw, in 1988 and 1991, 2 of his first 4 years in charge.

 

[lynx000]

Watching Roberts play in their 4th lose in a row on Thu nite I couldn't noticeably see any difference in his game from what he offered here before being dropped. Criticism the next day we’re along the lines of hm not getting enough ball. Much the same as what happened here. I'll be interested to see if Su'a goes any better as will all any other player Bennetts made contact with.

Interestingly, I have read some critical comments by South's supporters already along the lines of, he is lazy, does not try to get involved, gave up on the chase of Chee Kam almost straight away. All sounding very familiar.

 

[Huge]

Not sure I understand what you’re trying to get at or if you’re trying to be funny / sarcastic?

But at pretty much exactly 6 months short of 70, I’d say that’s almost 70.

Just like $69.50 is almost $70.00.

I just meant, what does his age have to do with it? Like the saying ' if you're good enough you're old enough ' or in this case you're young enough.

 

[broncsgoat]

Your post makes valid points, and I would totally agree with you if this hypothetical poster was providing fair and balanced posts. That is, providing criticism where it is due, even regularly, but also providing praise where it is appropriate. In the case of @Acceand @broncsgoat you will struggle to find anything other than a negative post about Seibold from the outset. That is an agenda at work.

We’re 5 and 9 and look pathetic... what postives are there to find?

 

[tommy]

We’re 5 and 9 and look pathetic... what postives are there to find?

That the cleanout has started. Don't care where we finish as long as we get rid of our 1 or 9 by rd1 next year. If we can get rid of both it should be considered a major success. We were getting shitter every year under Bennett with no sign of changing things up.

We were getting shitter and shitter since he started teaching us attack in '16

 

[The Strapper]

Another fair post, I do not disagree with you at all. In no way way was I suggesting that Seibold should be above criticism. We did miss the finals twice under Bennett btw, in 1988 and 1991, 2 of his first 4 years in charge.

You are right but I think it’s worth pointing out we were 7th in 1988, 5th in 1989 (lost a playoff with Cronulla who were 6th on for and against) and 6th in 1991 each time in a 16 team comp.
So today we would have made the finals each of those years.

 

[Kooly87]

You are right but I think it’s worth pointing out we were 7th in 1988, 5th in 1989 (lost a playoff with Cronulla who were 6th on for and against) and 6th in 1991 each time in a 16 team comp.
So today we would have made the finals each of those years.

Not trying to be picky, but at those points, we really did have basically an Origin side on our roster.

Even if you'd dispute that point, no one would argue that both those sides featured infinitely more talent than we currently possess.

 

[Sproj]

I have not been overly impressed with Siebs thus far but there are positives, it isn’t that hard to find them if you are being honest:

1. A lot of kids are getting good and bad experience
2. The deadwood is slowly but surely starting to be moved on - Roberts gone, Boyd starting to be fazed out. (Macca though, just why is he still there?)
3. Salary cap apparently being better managed
4. Some apparent impending important re-signings
5. The progress in some kids - Dearden, Paix, Coates, Flegler, Joffa.

Now, these are not irrefutable and they can all be rebutted. There is a longer list of negatives for sure but I’m just saying, to say there are no positives does tend to be revealing.

Ignoring the fallout from going after Bellamy and Bennett’s ensuing tantrum is also revealing.

 

[Renegade]

Seibold deserves at least 2-3 more seasons to properly gauge his squad plans and then his tactics in getting HIS squad to do what he wants them to do. At the moment it seems like coaching an entitled and petulant mob that Have forgotten that there’s more than one gear in the gearbox.

He deserves 2 seasons - this, and most of next. While I'm furious at how we're going this year, I will be ok with it if it spells the end of Macca and Boyd. From what i've seen so far, I am unsure whether that is happening or whether just shuffling deck chairs at the moment. Boyd for one is clearly not upto it anymore and shuffling him around just to keep him in the side smacks of a coach unwilling to make the tough decisions. Ditto for Macca.

If either of them are in the first team squad round 1 next year, he won't last the season and nor should he - we don't owe Seibold shit, he owes it to the club and to the fans to show he's actually got a plan that is going to come to fruition.