Round 18 - Panthers vs Broncos - Pre-Match Discussion

[rnabokov]

i think our biggest issue for the rest of this year and next year will be our forwards. there has not been a single game where we have really dominated in the middle.

even against the sharks before they made there second half comeback they were winning the metres gained on there set of six through there forwards and they arnt really in the top half of the best forward back int he comp yet they outplayed us there whole game i think. its a big worry and even when milf comes next year unless we vastly inmprove in that area we are are going to be a middle of the table team

The perspective I have been coming from is pretty close to this. For mine, we lack a dominant prop who can bend or break the line carrying tacklers more often than not AND looking to offload, and, offloading. For mine, that was Kennedy's job. He has failed it dismally.

The closest we have to that is Parker and he should be lock, not prop (yes, I ate my words ages ago). Hannant and McGuire are excellent props but their game is different, partly because of their lack of sheer brute size and strength. I see their roles more as helping to control and maintaining the middle in defence particularly, and importantly, perpetuating momentum, which then includes their combinations with Macca and Hunt.

As well, I see our front row's other main job as passing the ball at the advantage line or earlier - getting it out to the playmakers so we can do what we do best: play expansive attacking football. That is the style of football which has won us our matches + holding the middle and thus maintaining the overall team structures.

When the forwards fail to do that, like leaving a broken defensive line, or letting the attackers come to us instead of attacking them with strong defence, we leak line breaks.

If our pack controls the middle defensively, and gets the ball moving with minimal one-out plays where the ball just dies, we can be a real force in this competition with our class lock, back row and outside backs.

Kennedy's failure to be what was expected of him has been for mine been one of 3 major stumbling blocks for our finals chances.

The other ones we know all too well: Hoffman, and Barba's slow return to form.

If we play our natural game so to speak FOR 80 MINUTES, we can beat the Panthers no probs.

 

[broncos4life]

Yeah....I disagree and to be frank, it's just more senseless Griffin bashing.

I'll take sneaking into the semi finals over missing out, any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I'm sure some of the younger players will benefit from making the semis and as we would all do well to remember, in finals football anything can happen.

I'm certainly not about to sit back and death ride the team just so Anthony Griffin's job security is put under the spot light.

It's not more senseless griffin bashing at all, but you already know that.

Scraping into the right means nothing changes, are you happy with how things are currently?

 

[Unbreakable]

It's not more senseless griffin bashing at all, but you already know that.

Scraping into the right means nothing changes, are you happy with how things are currently?

Into the right of what?

We've gotta remember that Griffin is still signed on for next season, even if we don't finish top 4 this season, he's gonna be here next year, we may as well just hope for the best this season.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Into the right of what?

Ditto......

wot?

 

[Mr Fourex]

are you happy with how things are currently?

No....but I can't in all honesty lay it at Griffin's feet, or at least with such vigour that I want the team to lose their remaining games just to give the club a reason to piss Griffin off.

Possibly our defence structure I could be critical of......is that Griffin or Kearney? I read somewhere it was the latter. Also Griffin's use of the bench is a bit of a head scratcher .....at times. However, has Griffin been leaving yawning gaps up the middle.....has Griffin not been making the extra efforts in defence?

Is it Griffin's fault Hoffman is a sped and if so.....who should he replace Hoffman with? It's appears plainly obvious that no-one in the lower grades is screaming out for selection.

The players themselves have to be held accountable and I think Griffin is dealing with what he has, as good as any first grade coach in the NRL could.

And all that aside, I have never found myself (and I find it inconceivable, how any supporter of the club could) wanting us to lose games or not play finals football.

In some ways, I think we've actually over achieved this year to where I thought we might be .....and I for one think if we make the semis, we're as good a shot as anyone.

 

[Foordy]

No....but I can't in all honesty lay it at Griffin's feet, or at least with such vigour that I want the team to lose their remaining games just to give the club a reason to piss Griffin off.

Possibly our defence structure I could be critical of......is that Griffin or Kearney? I read somewhere it was the latter. Also Griffin's use of the bench is a bit of a head scratcher .....at times. However, has Griffin been leaving yawning gaps up the middle.....has Griffin not been making the extra efforts in defence?

Is it Griffin's fault Hoffman is a sped and if so.....who should he replace Hoffman with? It's appears plainly obvious that no-one in the lower grades is screaming out for selection.

The players themselves have to be held accountable and I think Griffin is dealing with what he has, as good as any first grade coach in the NRL could.

And all that aside, I have never found myself (and I find it inconceivable, how any supporter of the club could) wanting us to lose games or not play finals football.

In some ways, I think we've actually over achieved this year to where I thought we might be .....and I for one think if we make the semis, we're as good a shot as anyone.

I think there must be some weird planetary shit going on ATM, i keep agreeing with Fourex ... i'm scared :fear:

but didn't you know it doesn't matter how players are playing in the lower grades ... the NRL is the sub-standard comp so they will easily be able to play well once the get selected :rolleyes:

and i want Griffin gone ... but i find it damn near impossible to believe any supporter of this club would death-ride the team for their own agenda, or to be proven right or for really any other reason (that is something a Parra supporter would do)

 

[Ari Gold]

If we play our natural game so to speak FOR 80 MINUTES, we can beat the Panthers no probs.

What exactly is our natural game? Back in the 90's it used to be just balls out attack, and in 2006 it was more of a forward platform topped with this massive fucking cherry called Lockyer.

But honestly, what is our "natural game" these days. We have Hoffman at five eight and McCullough is much more of an all round player than any great attacking weapon. There are times where we look lost with the ball in attack if Hunt isn't involved.

And our forwards whilst capable are no longer the dominant pack that we had in the 2000's, so I'm not really able to say that's our game either.

I honestly don't know if we have a natural game... just this structured version of Griffinball, which I'd much rather we didn't play for 80 minutes.

And whilst the last bit is my mandatory dig at Griffin, the rest is genuine ponderment. I really don't feel we have an identity in terms of style like we used to.

 

[Morkel]

I think there must be some weird planetary shit going on ATM, i keep agreeing with Fourex ... i'm scared :fear:

but didn't you know it doesn't matter how players are playing in the lower grades ... the NRL is the sub-standard comp so they will easily be able to play well once the get selected :rolleyes:

and i want Griffin gone ... but i find it damn near impossible to believe any supporter of this club would death-ride the team for their own agenda, or to be proven right or for really any other reason (that is something a Parra supporter would do)

Was going to say the exact same thing? What's happened to Fourex? I suspect now that he has an outlet dedicated to shit-stirring, he can come on here and act all sensible. As sensible as someone who calls himself Mr Fourex can be, anyway.

 

[broncos4life]

Ditto......

wot?

Eight obviously

 

[broncos4life]

No....but I can't in all honesty lay it at Griffin's feet, or at least with such vigour that I want the team to lose their remaining games just to give the club a reason to piss Griffin off.

Possibly our defence structure I could be critical of......is that Griffin or Kearney? I read somewhere it was the latter. Also Griffin's use of the bench is a bit of a head scratcher .....at times. However, has Griffin been leaving yawning gaps up the middle.....has Griffin not been making the extra efforts in defence?

Is it Griffin's fault Hoffman is a sped and if so.....who should he replace Hoffman with? It's appears plainly obvious that no-one in the lower grades is screaming out for selection.

The players themselves have to be held accountable and I think Griffin is dealing with what he has, as good as any first grade coach in the NRL could.

And all that aside, I have never found myself (and I find it inconceivable, how any supporter of the club could) wanting us to lose games or not play finals football.

In some ways, I think we've actually over achieved this year to where I thought we might be .....and I for one think if we make the semis, we're as good a shot as anyone.

I think there must be some weird planetary shit going on ATM, i keep agreeing with Fourex ... i'm scared :fear:

but didn't you know it doesn't matter how players are playing in the lower grades ... the NRL is the sub-standard comp so they will easily be able to play well once the get selected :rolleyes:

and i want Griffin gone ... but i find it damn near impossible to believe any supporter of this club would death-ride the team for their own agenda, or to be proven right or for really any other reason (that is something a Parra supporter would do)

Can we calm the **** down and stop putting words in people's mouths just so you can ride your high horses.

I am not death riding the team, never have and never will.

I said that if we aren't contenders I don't want to scrap into the finals and get blasted out, so the club can say "oh we were so close, we'll get em next year" and it's just business as usual.

In regards to replacing Hoffman, I haven't said bring up one of the younger guys, I have said they aren't ready. But you can't tell me in the whole of the ISC there isn't a half that couldn't do a better job than hoffman, and yes that can be blamed on griffin because he obviously doesn't think it's a problem.

Four ex you brush over the inability to use a bench correctly like it's no big issue... It's griffins fourth year of coaching in the nrl and he still can't get it right, but oh well...

He's the head coach FFS. Our defensive structures are a rabble compared to the top sides, we can't use a bench to the point that the commentators are laughing about it, and we are over have way through the season with a winger in 6 and no visible attempts to rectify it. That alone is basically the coach giving up on the season, however if anyone has the audacity to wish for change the are 'death riding' the club.

 

[Huge]

B4life...I agree with several of those last statements. Griffin has been poor with of his use of the bench,some very ordinary selections in the first place,his persistence with Hoggman and not having a team which seems to have much in the way of structure. I'm definetly my own man and make my own mind up,seldom reading media releases or being swayed in my views by journos. Blind Teddy,going through a tunnel with a bag over his head could see Hoggman is not able to play an effective role as five eight. I'd rather Granville full time at half and Hunt play 5/8, really even promote Nicholls for a game. I have no doubt we could hardly be worse off.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Can we calm the **** down and stop putting words in people's mouths just so you can ride your high horse.

I don't think Foordy owns a car so high horse is his only mode of transport.

 

[broncos4life]

I don't think Foordy owns a car so high horse is his only mode of transport.

Bahahaha

 

[Foordy]

B4life...I agree with several of those last statements. Griffin has been poor with of his use of the bench,some very ordinary selections in the first place,his persistence with Hoggman and not having a team which seems to have much in the way of structure. I'm definetly my own man and make my own mind up,seldom reading media releases or being swayed in my views by journos. Blind Teddy,going through a tunnel with a bag over his head could see Hoggman is not able to play an effective role as five eight. I'd rather Granville full time at half and Hunt play 5/8, really even promote Nicholls for a game. I have no doubt we could hardly be worse off.

but the thing is we could be worse off.

for example: if the guy we bring up is a turnstile in defence, allowing opposition teams to charge up the field or letting in soft tries.

now i understand that you don't pick halves on defence alone, but their has to be a balance. unless they are setting up more tries than they let in, then we will be in a far worse position than we are now with Hoffman in the 6.

and Hoffman is relatively good in defence, and is still making some good running meters.

before anyone starts calling me a Griffin lover, or Hoffman lover or whatever else becuase i happen to disagree with them, let me say this .... I don't want Hoffman in the 6 (on the wing only please) and i want Griffin gone (as long as we can get someone better)

 

[GCBRONCO]

but the thing is we could be worse off.

for example: if the guy we bring up is a turnstile in defence, allowing opposition teams to charge up the field or letting in soft tries.

now i understand that you don't pick halves on defence alone, but their has to be a balance. unless they are setting up more tries than they let in, then we will be in a far worse position than we are now with Hoffman in the 6.

and Hoffman is relatively good in defence, and is still making some good running meters.

before anyone starts calling me a Griffin lover, or Hoffman lover or whatever else becuase i happen to disagree with them, let me say this .... I don't want Hoffman in the 6 (on the wing only please) and i want Griffin gone (as long as we can get someone better)

Hoffman is a decent defender but not enough to suggest you can outright lock him into 5/8th nor when there are arguably worse defenders in the game in team's spines who have a far more positive impact to their side in their attack alone, Hunt is a better defender, but its not why he is there, nor is it the reason for Hoffman to remain just because there's some risk involved, if a coach needs to avoid making tough decision's because there are risks, what the hell are they doing coaching? As for his running game, it can be a real asset for a player in the spine.........when your making breaks and converting them into opportunities for others around you and yourself and quite frankly his not up to scratch in a role that requires one to have vision to use that space, in fact for all those "metres" he supposedly makes he also kills alot of missed opportunities from the lack of simply shifting the ball when the opportunity arises. I wonder how many tries he would have racked up by now alone just by being out on the wing with someone who can better utilise his real talents.

Also I don't consider you a Griffin lover or Hoffman for that matter, just because someone disagrees with your point of view, doesn't mean they have a set belief about you. It also can be the same said about Hoffman, I dislike that his being utilised in such a role when clear as day its throttling the team's potential, but I don't blame him when his coach continues to play him there.

But I don't think a change will be made outside of an injury or suspension unless we get to the stage like last season where we are clearly out of the running and he will make a token move and it will be claimed as him willing to take risks.

 

[Porthoz]

We're 4 pts off the top of the ladder, beat first and second, we're also 4th in F/A and although you could argue we choked on several games, you could also argue we were in every single game this season, even those we lost when missing several key players. Most games we lost were because we lost composure and have a still very raw halfback, who isn't yet comfortable in controlling a game's tempo.

Some refereeing performances also didn't help, otherwise we might be right at the top of the table, despite having Hoggman at 5/8!

Once the rep season is over, we will see what we're really made of, and personally I'm happy we have a tough draw, because it will mean that if we do well and make the finals comfortably, it won't have been a fluke based on an easy ride, and it will be a fair measure to determine whether Hook should stay or go.

The Penrith game is certainly important and relevant, because we will hopefully have all our troops back (barring Origin injuries, and the monday game helps) except Hodgo, and we want to make a statement against one of the clubs ahead of us on the table.

A win in Penrith followed by 2 wins at home (if we manage to defeat whatever psychological barrier is blocking us at Suncorp), will place us fair and square in Top 4 contention, and everything can happen from then.

On the other hand, lose those games and we'll probably struggle, which will hopefully force Hook's hand to put an actually capable 5/8 in the team, and who knows what that may lead to...?

P.S. The Parker at lock or prop discussion had been done to death, but people are still arguing he should be lock. Looking at our roster, I have no doubt that Parker is playing where he should, because he does essentially the same job he has always done. People should stop looking at the jersey number, and more at the actual footy played on the paddock!

 

[GCBRONCO]

We're 4 pts off the top of the ladder, beat first and second, we're also 4th in F/A and although you could argue we choked on several games, you could also argue we were in every single game this season, even those we lost when missing several key players. Most games we lost were because we lost composure and have a still very raw halfback, who isn't yet comfortable in controlling a game's tempo.

Some refereeing performances also didn't help, otherwise we might be right at the top of the table, despite having Hoggman at 5/8!

Once the rep season is over, we will see what we're really made of, and personally I'm happy we have a tough draw, because it will mean that if we do well and make the finals comfortably, it won't have been a fluke based on an easy ride, and it will be a fair measure to determine whether Hook should stay or go.

The Penrith game is certainly important and relevant, because we will hopefully have all our troops back (barring Origin injuries, and the monday game helps) except Hodgo, and we want to make a statement against one of the clubs ahead of us on the table.

A win in Penrith followed by 2 wins at home (if we manage to defeat whatever psychological barrier is blocking us at Suncorp), will place us fair and square in Top 4 contention, and everything can happen from then.

On the other hand, lose those games and we'll probably struggle, which will hopefully force Hook's hand to put an actually capable 5/8 in the team, and who knows what that may lead to...?

P.S. The Parker at lock or prop discussion had been done to death, but people are still arguing he should be lock. Looking at our roster, I have no doubt that Parker is playing where he should, because he does essentially the same job he has always done. People should stop looking at the jersey number, and more at the actual footy played on the paddock!

Parker and lock argument is a tad different and a pretty poor example, his played both roles at the club past and present and its not asking him to be something his effectively not, I don't think you really lose anywhere near the effectiveness you do compared to say Hoffman's worth on the wing last season and now at 5/8th. If all your wanting Hoffman to be a good defender and make metres and not much else, plenty of other positions in the side that can do that which will also free up other possibilities for us at 5/8th.

Hunt can only do so much even less so when his not given the full potential of the side to work with, outside of his kicking game against Cronulla for example he did virtually everything he could in his power to put us in an unbeatable position and in the dying minutes he did what he could to give us any chance at winning, throttling us in the spine does us absolutely no favors, it just hinders us. We got a tough draw home, far tougher then we have had now one that can easily cause us fall from any real contention pretty quick. The mentality that Hunt will get us home alone is an extremely dangerous one indeed, others particularly in the spine (not just Hoffman for that matter, Barba as well) need to step up or changes need to be made, simple.

 

[Huge]

but the thing is we could be worse off.

for example: if the guy we bring up is a turnstile in defence, allowing opposition teams to charge up the field or letting in soft tries.

now i understand that you don't pick halves on defence alone, but their has to be a balance. unless they are setting up more tries than they let in, then we will be in a far worse position than we are now with Hoffman in the 6.

and Hoffman is relatively good in defence, and is still making some good running meters.

before anyone starts calling me a Griffin lover, or Hoffman lover or whatever else becuase i happen to disagree with them, let me say this .... I don't want Hoffman in the 6 (on the wing only please) and i want Griffin gone (as long as we can get someone better)

Okay ,fair enough but clearly Foordy, you didn't read the post closely. Re-read the last two sentences and there you will see I wrote, promote Nicholls for a game. I didn't say for the rest of the year.