Round 20 - Cowboys vs. Broncos - Pre Match Discussion

[rnabokov]

It's not the plan that's the problem, it's the coach who is implementing it.

Some of the stuff that we do not do, is just so elementary it makes you wonder what it is they actually do at training.

It doesn't even have to be complicated, just basic **** like:

passing before the line
standing deep
passing from dh in one motion
having decoy runners run somewhat imaginative lines
support play/backing up your man

If Bellamy was in charge, we probably wouldn't win the title, but we'd be performing closer to our capacity than we are at present.

THIS

The thing that really pisses me off is that we have done it ... like for 5 minutes every 3rd game and THAT is a coaching issue, eveb if it means yelling at players, blowing whistles, stopping plays when it's not done properly etc etc ... drawing circles on the training paddock and moving players into position who don't follow the rules like chess pieces until they get it right

(Which I believe is what Hasler does, more or less)

Has anyone ever sat out a full Broncos training session(s) ? WTF do they do???

 

[rnabokov]

The contrast of course is what Hasler has done with the Dogs. Forwards getting involved in the ball-playing, causing the compressed defence to leave gaps out wide. The reason it doesn't work for us is because they have Barba & Graham and we don't. In fact we have zero speed anywhere, no one besides Hodges who can get the better of their opposite one-on-one to create opportunities, and Hodgo only does it out of elusiveness, not speed. Anyone who watched the Bulldogs earlier in the year would see the very specific skill sets required to make the plan work. Without Graham (and Kasiano to a lesser extent) it simply did not work, nor did it help when they didn't have Barba's speed to take advantage. If we get Barba, the most likely candidates for forward-based ball-movement are McGuire & Hannant, but even that's theoretical.

I disagree to a certain extent. We have done this a few times in the last 2 seasons, Hannant, McGuire, Thaiday ... and it got good results if not exactly at the level of the Dogs ... and therein lies the tragedy that is Hook.

He either doesn't give a toss, the players don't give a toss and if either one is the case, then CHOP!

 

[qlderxxxx]

The way the Dogs play is so much different to what Des' Eagles did. For mine Hasler is the best coach in the comp bar none. He's proven he can adapt his game plan to suit the skills his players excel at.

If only Griffin were smart enough to devise a master game plan around Peter Wallace's mastery of mediocrity.

The thing that impressed me about Hasler's work with the dogs last year is that he figured out that brilliant game plan in the bloody preseason! Had already pegged ball playing forwards as a tactic. Usually poor performances force coaches into radical decisions, Hasler has the balls and the nous to make such calls early on. The exact opposite of Anthony 'play it safe' Griffin.

 

[rnabokov]

The thing that impressed me about Hasler's work with the dogs last year is that he figured out that brilliant game plan in the bloody preseason! Had already pegged ball playing forwards as a tactic. Usually poor performances force coaches into radical decisions, Hasler has the balls and the nous to make such calls early on. The exact opposite of Anthony 'play it safe' Griffin.

For mine, Hasler has the nous to understand that it's the ball that wins games, and that the more it's passed to running support players, the closer it gets to the try line!!!! DER ....

He must have watched a lot of soccer. Whatever you think of that game, it leaves you in no doubt about what happens when you pass the ball or don't

 

[_wwong]

griffin is so out of date, seriously, why would barba want to play for the broncos? griffin will probably tell him to never run full speed, just jog back for kick returns and grind out some meters

 

[qlderxxxx]

griffin is so out of date, seriously, why would barba want to play for the broncos? griffin will probably tell him to never run full speed, just jog back for kick returns and grind out some meters

WRONG.

Griffin will turn him into a hulk. He will be an absolute beast, able to bench 180 kg's, he will be a modern marvel of rippling man meat... He just won't be any good at footy any more.

 

[Alec]

Parker and Hodges were easily the two best QLD players this series. In the toughest competition.

Why aren't we on top of the ladder again? Could it be because every time Wallace gets the ball he blue himself?

 

[rnabokov]

For mine, we are not top 4 because the team plays like schoolboys most of the time despite the fact that we have shown form that is as good as any but Hook seems to be at the level of a schoolboy coach who can't control both the talent, and the slack form on the paddock.

As for Wallace, given he is as slow as treacle, the only way to deal with that short of dropping him is to re-structure the game plan so he gets the ball much faster from our dummy halves and he has running support options on either side.

Becasue we play so fucking flat most of the time, and the dummy half service is as slow as Wallace's footwork, he's got no chance. The defence is on him as he gets the ball.

I still cannot believe that we have such class in this side, we have shown it in flashes, yet Hook can't get the team to gel

If you ask me, he doesn't have the respect of the players. If he did, then they would go out their every week and play to the form they are capable of and that they have shown in spits and dribbles over this season.

 

[Coxy]

One thing that bugs me a lot is whenever we criticise the Broncos it's all "Bulldogs do this well" and "Storm do this well" and "Souths do this well"...which I know, makes sense, they're playing good football. But geez I wish we could come up with something innovative that works for our playing roster!

The Broncos started out that way. Playing an expansive, attacking style of football at a time when most teams were playing a very defensive and cautious style of football (a lot like now). Likewise Bennett was one of the first to adopt the forward power game in the late 90s.

Unfortunately the removal of unlimited interchange then negated that style of play and Bennett didn't really come up with something new - that is until late 2006 when he tweaked the line up a bit and slightly changed the game plan enough to change how teams played us.

But apart from that he was all about high completions, low mistakes, contain the opposition, and when we get in the 20 use a 2nd man play...
Henjak tried to change that, but he had no connection or respect with the players, so he failed.
Then we get Griffin who is just Bennett Lite. High completion, low errors, contain the opposition, and when we get in the 20 use a really ineffective and poorly timed 2nd man play...

I've really seen nothing to suggest Griffin can turn things around because all he's done is ineffectively copycat a 10 year old game plan that no longer works. Why would him ineffectively copycatting game plans from Hasler, Maguire or Bellamy work any better?

 

[Alec]

Because Hassler's plan suits us the most. It makes for ordinary halves by having your forwards play as first receivers. Graham is the best at it, but Hannant, Stagg and Glenn have done it well too. We've also looked the best when we went Hassler style the last 2 years. Inventing a new style is hard.

 

[Coxy]

Yes but the point is copying someone else's game plan only works if you have the buy in to do it. Just doing it because Hasler does it and it works (well, worked last year) isn't enough reason.

I'd love to see some elements used, sure, but I'd even just be happy to see the line deeper inside the 30m zone FFS. That doesn't require much change, and the existing plays and structure will work with a deeper backline.

But hey I've been saying that for 3 years and nothing changes, so I've given up on Hook having any fucking idea about attack.

 

[Ari Gold]

Des didn't copy anybody, he used his brain to innovate a plan that worked well for his team.

Griffin is not capable of innovating. He's the coaching equivalent of a sweater shop making knock off designer items with poor quality.

To be fair though, it's hard to innovate when all you have to work with is the mediocrity of Peter Wallace.

 

[_wwong]

See hodges run that beautiful line off a short ball from an actual ball player. Oh how I wish the broncos could do that

 

[Coxy]

It was incredible wasn't it? For so long I've thought Hodges was incapable of hitting a hole... turns out our halves are just incapable of setting up such a play.

 

[Kimlo]

Hodges can do anything. He's basically perfect.

 

[_wwong]

Our right hand side was once deadly in attack. Locky, khunt and hodges bamboozled defences

 

[Alec]

Des didn't copy anybody, he used his brain to innovate a plan that worked well for his team.

I reckon Kimmorley had a big hand in it. He was the assistant coach there in 2012 (and is now assistant coach at the Raiders). He just seems and sounds like really smart bloke. Would be great to have him as an assistant coach here...or even a full coach, if he thinks he's ready.

 

[rnabokov]

I reckon Kimmorley had a big hand in it. He was the assistant coach there in 2012 (and is now assistant coach at the Raiders). He just seems and sounds like really smart bloke. Would be great to have him as an assistant coach here...or even a full coach, if he thinks he's ready.

Yep, he can teach our halves the long cut-out pass