Round 22 - Raiders vs Broncos - Build Up Thread

[Coxy]

How funny is it that half way through the season we were getting talked up as premiership contenders. bahahaha seriously it's funny s*** the coach and the players must have been having a big laugh when that was being said about them.

Or maybe they genuinely believed it? I certainly had a very good feeling about the team in the first half of the year. They were winning. They were playing well. They were scoring points. The forwards were dynamic and powerful. The halves were creating opportunities on the back of their forward work. McCullough and Hunt were doing well at dummyhalf. It was all coming together. All that was lacking was a consistent 80 minute performance.

Then came Origin, and some serious injuries, and far from building on that early work they've gone backwards. It's been obvious for weeks. That "win" against the Warriors was the most disappointed I've been after a win. SO many opportunities to put the game away and we failed. I wasn't surprised by the follow up against the Titans, the attack was horrible but I was more worried by the up front defence that was leaking breaks, and only ineptitude from the Titans and desperate scrambling prevented them scoring more points.

Hence the huge criticisms in the lead up to the Parramatta game. The Broncos were saying all the right things, the Titans performance was horrible, need to improve our attack, get more energy blah blah...they delivered the opposite. And no only was the attack lacklustre but the defence completely opened up. THAT to me is the worrying thing. The defence has been getting progressively WORSE.

You can make all the excuses you like about players being injured and so their replacements being out of position etc, and certainly Hook has erred with his obsession of playing back rowers in the centres, and while we have leaked through those areas, it's up the middle where most of the damage is being done.

This has been coming for a while, and it's Hook's first real test as a coach to turn things around. I agree it's not entirely the halves fault, because it's the forwards leaking breaks and points, but there are large stretches in every game we've played in the last 6 weeks where we've had good go forward, good field position and a wealth of possession and we're just not creating points. THAT is entirely the halves fault.

So yes, forwards need to pull their finger out and remember how to tackle again and show some desire, but we also need to fix the problems in the halves. And I do think that means either Norman or Wallace has to be dropped. Both are terribly out of form and lacking confidence.

And while there's arguments for either of them to be dropped, I'd stick with Wallace purely because of his experience and strength in defence. Hunt is no worse (imo better) than Norman in defence, has a much better passing game, better short kicking game, but of course isn't as agile and quick on his feet as Norman. But right now we don't need him to be. We need someone to be getting his outside backs and wide back rower deeper and getting them good early ball. It's the only way we're going to be competitive.

 

[broncos4life]

Or maybe they genuinely believed it? I certainly had a very good feeling about the team in the first half of the year. They were winning. They were playing well. They were scoring points. The forwards were dynamic and powerful. The halves were creating opportunities on the back of their forward work. McCullough and Hunt were doing well at dummyhalf. It was all coming together. All that was lacking was a consistent 80 minute performance.

Then came Origin, and some serious injuries, and far from building on that early work they've gone backwards. It's been obvious for weeks. That "win" against the Warriors was the most disappointed I've been after a win. SO many opportunities to put the game away and we failed. I wasn't surprised by the follow up against the Titans, the attack was horrible but I was more worried by the up front defence that was leaking breaks, and only ineptitude from the Titans and desperate scrambling prevented them scoring more points.

Hence the huge criticisms in the lead up to the Parramatta game. The Broncos were saying all the right things, the Titans performance was horrible, need to improve our attack, get more energy blah blah...they delivered the opposite. And no only was the attack lacklustre but the defence completely opened up. THAT to me is the worrying thing. The defence has been getting progressively WORSE.

You can make all the excuses you like about players being injured and so their replacements being out of position etc, and certainly Hook has erred with his obsession of playing back rowers in the centres, and while we have leaked through those areas, it's up the middle where most of the damage is being done.

This has been coming for a while, and it's Hook's first real test as a coach to turn things around. I agree it's not entirely the halves fault, because it's the forwards leaking breaks and points, but there are large stretches in every game we've played in the last 6 weeks where we've had good go forward, good field position and a wealth of possession and we're just not creating points. THAT is entirely the halves fault.

So yes, forwards need to pull their finger out and remember how to tackle again and show some desire, but we also need to fix the problems in the halves. And I do think that means either Norman or Wallace has to be dropped. Both are terribly out of form and lacking confidence.

And while there's arguments for either of them to be dropped, I'd stick with Wallace purely because of his experience and strength in defence. Hunt is no worse (imo better) than Norman in defence, has a much better passing game, better short kicking game, but of course isn't as agile and quick on his feet as Norman. But right now we don't need him to be. We need someone to be getting his outside backs and wide back rower deeper and getting them good early ball. It's the only way we're going to be competitive.

Couldn't agree more mate. In reference to the bolded, currently I think his lack of agility would be beneficial. It means he wouldn't try to do that stupid dance at the line Norman does that worked in the U20's but isn't fooling anyone in first grade

 

[vertigo]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...ime-to-get-tough/story-e6frep5x-1226440675442

"We have a tough run home and if we don't turn it around we will get spanked by teams like the Bulldogs and Melbourne," McGuire said.

"Our halves aren't the problem, they can't do what they are doing unless the forwards are going forward and laying the platform.

"Everyone has to put their hand up and take responsibility. It starts with us in the forwards, if other teams are just rolling down the middle it puts pressure on everyone across the board.

"I was embarrassed by that (loss to Parramatta) and all the boys feel the same way. There was a lack of commitment, it's not acceptable when you play for the Broncos."

"Every team has players out. That's no excuse, we have the depth there to cover that," he said. "Effort is the problem, whether it's kick-chase or trailing on the inside, people are getting complacent.

"At this time of year you have to go up to an extra level and we haven't done that yet.

"We will keep paying the price unless we do that."

So the forwards are to blame for our inability to create anything inside the opposition 20, got it.

 

[noisetheory]

it is so wrong its not funny.

at this point i'm just hoping they are sticking up for each other/trying to take the heat off. like, mcguires a forward, he can't really say openly to the media that our halves are shit.

WE CAN THOUGH :)

 

[ivanhungryjak]

Looks like Parker and Reed may play...

http://www.nrl.com/parker-and-reed-set-for-broncos-return/tabid/10874/newsid/69021/default.aspx

 

[Alec]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...ime-to-get-tough/story-e6frep5x-1226440675442



So the forwards are to blame for our inability to create anything inside the opposition 20, got it.

To be honest, I wouldn't really expect McGuire to say - "Yep, our halves are the problem. They are shit."

 

[Coxy]

True. I bet if there was an interview with Peter Wallace or Corey Norman they'd say "We haven't been doing our job in the halves. The forwards are busting their gut but we're not making the most of it".

Players just bag themselves and deflect praise to others whenever they're asked. I don't take much notice of what players say to be honest, it's all scripted/cliched.

 

[Kimlo]

True. I bet if there was an interview with Peter Wallace or Corey Norman they'd say "We haven't been doing our job in the halves. The forwards are busting their gut but we're not making the most of it".

Players just bag themselves and deflect praise to others whenever they're asked. I don't take much notice of what players say to be honest, it's all scripted/cliched.

+1000 Players never say anything worth listening to. It's always cliche BS. Credit to the boys, blah blah...

 

[noisetheory]

it would not reflect well on the club, or any club, if their players were bagging others in the team.

they're probably trained to be cliche to the media.

can you imagine the spin the media would put on if mcguire said wallace and norman have been playing crap? "broncos unrest!", "rift at the club", etc

 

[vertigo]

I know its just deflection for the media but the forwards have put us in heaps of good attacking positions all year, we have no trouble making meters when needed.

 

[Big Pete]

The thing is, we've invested so much more money into our forwards than our halves or backs it's easy to understand why they'd take more responsibility.

Especially over the past two weeks, they have been just as bad, if not worse than our halves.

On Monday, our fringes were terrible. All Parra had to do was go one pass wide and they would either break the line or earn a huge roll on. It was embarrassing, especially from a captain and an Origin player.

We really miss having Glenn in the backrow. Gillett is too big an arm grabber to defend out there.

We also missed Corey too. We need him back and firing. We need his performance against Souths to stand a chance.

 

[rnabokov]

The thing is, we've invested so much more money into our forwards than our halves or backs it's easy to understand why they'd take more responsibility.

Especially over the past two weeks, they have been just as bad, if not worse than our halves.

On Monday, our fringes were terrible. All Parra had to do was go one pass wide and they would either break the line or earn a huge roll on. It was embarrassing, especially from a captain and an Origin player.

We really miss having Glenn in the backrow. Gillett is too big an arm grabber to defend out there.

We also missed Corey too. We need him back and firing. We need his performance against Souths to stand a chance.

NRL Stats are interesting, unless I can't count, which has been noticed once before ..... Gillett missed tackles 51; Glenn missed tackles 61.

Neither is impressive.

 

[Kimlo]

NRL Stats are interesting. Gillett missed tackles 51; Glenn missed tackles 61

Yes but you're Gillett's number 1 fan :-P

 

[rnabokov]

Yes but you're Gillett's number 1 fan :-P

Very true. However, my edited post which you missed (sorry) was that neither was impressive.

I must confess that the 2 players which frustrate and confuse me most form wise are Gillett and ...... Wallace

 

[Kimlo]

Well I'm a huge fan of Gillett too, so disappointed he hasn't been able to recapture his form from last year :(

 

[Bucking Beads]

How many more tackles has Glenn made compared to Gillett??

 

[noisetheory]

NRL Stats are interesting, unless I can't count, which has been noticed once before ..... Gillett missed tackles 51; Glenn missed tackles 61.

Neither is impressive.

for the whole season? glenn would have played alot more minutes than gillett + gillett origin.

 

[Jeba]

I was listening to ABC last weekend and they listed the MWP (Most worrying player), measured by most missed tackles per game and errors and penalties conceded so far this season. Ours was Glenn. I was very surprised!!