POST GAME [Round 3, 2022] Broncos vs Cowboys

[holdzy]

I thought Oates was good and was one of the few who could hold his head high. He looked off balance and the big bloke takes a little while to wind up anyway.

He was solid enough, but when he took that intercept he was absolutely plodding. Something seemed very off.

 

[Morkel]

Everything from the weekend is fixable, the only sign of bad attitude that I saw was Staggs waving his arms at the perceived obstruction when Dearden went over. It reminded me a bit of Boyd at his worst, instead of complaining to the ref, make a fucking effort to stop the play. There is no way he would have been able to prevent it, but an "act first, bitch later" attitude is what we needed at the time. The king of gutsy efforts, Gillett, should have the right to a free slap on Stagg's face.

 

[BroncosFever]

But he’s been fine the first few weeks. He doesn’t take that intercept, they score, it’s that simple.

That's pretty much it, once we lose all these blokes who aren't genuinely winning us games don't have a spot anymore, I even read as people said Turpin did enough to keep his spot after the Souths game. Suddenly we cop a beating and half of our team isn't NRL standard, they were up to it a week ago, nothing changed.

Way too many over reactions on this forum.

 

[Mr Fourex]

He was never even a consistently average player. He had games where he had a highlight reel finish and was shit for the rest of the game but his worst was the dumbest shit a footy player could do. Isaako was done at the Broncos and deservedly so, Niu still hasn't been anywhere near as bad as Isaako was most games.

Yes...I hadn't watched the game yet yesterday when I started reading comments in here lamenting the loss of Idroppo

I'm thinking WTF?? This is bad....game must have been a shocker and we've played like shitcunts.

If Nui starts doing Idroppo things....yeah.....maybe give him the shunt, but lets persist a little while longer. Nui's worst is still light years away from Idroppo's worst.

 

[BroncsFan]

Also I don't blame Reynolds for not having a good game. The Cowboys ran at him all afternoon. He needs to be protected better and not spend the entire game making tackles. Kobe would be the perfect protector for him. Let Carrigan do exactly what he's been doing at prop.

It's the edge backrowers job to protect the halfback.

Kobe at lock is defending in the middle of the field he cant cover there and also be out on the edge protecting Reynolds.

 

[BroncsFan]

I just don't understand how or why they all came out so sluggish right off the bat. Every single player after the first few mins looked absolutely cooked besides Herbie and haas. When cobbo and Oates made those early breaks it looked like they were both running through quick sand. It was polar opposite to the previous 2 games. Let's not even talk about the poor defensive line speed.

How can everyone be gassed at the start of the game? As I said their fitness looked quite good prior to this.

Probably something like emotional exhaustion.

The way they have to play to win is fatiguing mentally and physically.

We are trying to grind out games and winning them with 40% possession and no field position... there's no period to take a break within the game and compose yourself.

They come into this game and cows are instantly up in their face forcing the issue... they were challenged to go for a third week in a row and couldn't do it.

A couple players come in with their head space at 90% instead of 100% and they're instantly behind their opponent.

I think we came into that game with the tanks empty because of the last two weeks.

They've had nothing easy to start the year, and they wont get anything easy until the attack starts to click and defence becomes natural.

 

[pagey]

Everything from the weekend is fixable, the only sign of bad attitude that I saw was Staggs waving his arms at the perceived obstruction when Dearden went over. It reminded me a bit of Boyd at his worst, instead of complaining to the ref, make a fucking effort to stop the play. There is no way he would have been able to prevent it, but an "act first, bitch later" attitude is what we needed at the time. The king of gutsy efforts, Gillett, should have the right to a free slap on Stagg's face.

yep he could’ve helped Niu, Dearden didn't even look like passing it , he was committed to running it.

 

[Cult]

It's the edge backrowers job to protect the halfback.

Kobe at lock is defending in the middle of the field he cant cover there and also be out on the edge protecting Reynolds.

At the moment it's nobodies job. Someone who can defend needs to be moved beside him to stop the traffic going his way.

 

[Huge]

In the presser Kevvie made a lame attempt to make out the loss was not that bad saying that 4 or 5 of their tries were scored off kicks. He was suggesting that somehow those tries don't really count in the overall picture of our defensive structures.

That one statement right there highlights Kevvie's naivety in the game as what he was doing was highlighting the stark contrast in both teams' execution, attitude and game plan.

When we finished a set we had Reynolds kicking a bomb (much the same as what Milf would do) we had no one chasing the kick, no one contesting the kick ( I think I saw Cobbs make one attempt). The team's lack of enthusiasm to chase the kick and pressure the opposition was also very plain for all to see.

Contrast the Cows where almost every kick was contested, which threw our defence into disarray, and often led to a six again, or ultimately resulted in a try.

For Kevvie to try and write off the very reason they were made to look like a rabble as nothing worth considering is quite unforgivable. Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt Kevvie.

That loss was in a large part down to your poor coaching and you let the team down badly this weekend. Obviously learned nothing form the trial game.

I tend to agree somewhat and have made the following point quite a few times but for discussion sake I'll reiterate. Why are we rushing our fifth tackle play?

To me there's no advantage to be gained. A slow ptb gives our playmaker time to give an instruction, check the targeted area/side/player, call his defence and ensure they have the chance to time their run, make the defenders stand still a full 20 metres away (further if he chooses) thus ensuring they are onside and not already running, two and three metres offside when he receives 'the snap' or pass and above all else it provides timing and rhythm.

On KW, absolutely right. He does not use his bench well at all. I'd have two props, one second rower and a utility and with Haas a modification of that standard arrangement is possible with a dedicated prop, hybrid prop/second rower X2 and a utility.

I've often thought that if you have a prop with limited skills,James Kennedy etc why not start them and use them purely as defensive battering rams. Give them the first 15 to 20 and sub them for your more versatile props. This way your yardage/ energy goes up and not down at the change. If they're good enough to play prop in the NRL they're good enough to start. It doesn't HAVE to be done the traditional way. Just a thought.

 

[easybreezy]

Corey Oates’ time is up. He looked like he was towing a caravan when he took that intercept in the first half.

It’s difficult to believe he is only 27. This is his last year at the Broncos, surely.

Im not so sure...and I was all for Oates being dropped last year.
He is the world's slowest winger...we knew that before yesterday. But I think we all agree he isnt in the team for his speed.

The commentators on 9 didnt pick up on it, but he was actually involved in the tackle at the posts, then legged it out to the wing to take the intercept...Kevvie has said he has spoken to Oates about his effort...that was a massive moment for him.

I was actually really impressed by it. He has shown more involvement in the past few weeks than the last year or so, IMO.

 

[HarryAllan7]

Rewatched the game... defence is more an attitude thing and I've got to think that alot of the second half tries were the result of the team dropping their heads a little, but in attack....

We get monstered and suffocated by a defensive line rushing up and wishing the referee would call a penalty is not an appropriate strategy these days - Storm, Roosters, Panthers all exploit this and whinging about it solves nothing, so we need to learn how to take advantage of it.

It looks worse because our players receive the ball often standing still, completely flat footed or have to slow down / stop to catch a pass from dummy half which is way too high or low or out to either side, meaning we have limited forward momentum and the defence is on top of our players in no time.

The first problem is dummy half - we need a 9 who can do a few key things:
1. Pass the ball to the right playmaker on demand every time
2. Pass the ball from the ground without picking it up and taking a step or two first
3. Capitalise on a slow PTB by engaging the markers through running the ball AT THE RIGHT MOMENTS
4. Pass the ball to players on the chest EVERY TIME

Combine that with some forwards who are standing deep, running onto the ball and pushing up through the middle. Your patterns and shapes start from DH, we need forwards lining up to be running ONTO a flat ball from DH to get over the advantage line with their first few steps, before looking to find their front quickly. This needs to be sharp, quick, precise and consistent. One after the after, straight up the middle, like a precise sequence every single set.

If you can have forwards consistently running onto flat balls from DH and bending the defensive line before getting a quick PTB, targetting the same players in the defensive line the entire set to fatigue and cause an error, you will get a quick PTB opportunity where the DH can either go himself through the ruck, or spin the ball out to a playmaker to operate in space.

Your entire attacking output stems from simply gaining momentum in the middle of the field. How often do we see slow PTB's with passes going to Carrigan / James / some other forward standing almost dead still? Reynolds isn't a magician and if we don't give him the time and space to operate effectively then we can't expect him to work miracles.

This system of attack at least effectively combats the rapidly advancing defensive line, then we have to exploit it further... A defensive line rushing up (often with 13 in the front line) creates a huge amount of space behind. We should be looking to regularly take advantage of that with short kicks over the line with our players chasing hard... We should have a variety of mid-field short kicking set plays drilled and practiced to perfection. It's a totally unexpected tactic (which in itself is a positive) but one that is extremely effective against a defence which is pushing forward hard and fast, with little time to turn and chase. For the first time in forever we have a 7 who has an impeccable short kicking game - this is a no brainer that we should be exploiting AT MINIMUM once or twice a game.

The same is true of misdirection plays... if the defence is charging up hard and fast, then we use that against them... have attacking players standing deep, spreading the ball laterally to make defenders chase across the line, isolate the gap between the middle and edge defenders with a player cutting hard across the grain in the opposite direction onto an inside ball... I've seen other teams using this and again its incredibly effective against the type of defence we're commonly seeing.

I understand the idea of taking things 'back to basics' and focusing on fundamentals, but the team still has to have some structure and its the coaches job to put in a system which the players can execute... We have a lot of improving to do.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Im not so sure...and I was all for Oates being dropped last year.
He is the world's slowest winger...we knew that before yesterday. But I think we all agree he isnt in the team for his speed.

The commentators on 9 didnt pick up on it, but he was actually involved in the tackle at the posts, then legged it out to the wing to take the intercept...Kevvie has said he has spoken to Oates about his effort...that was a massive moment for him.

I was actually really impressed by it. He has shown more involvement in the past few weeks than the last year or so, IMO.

RE Corey Oates. He takes a while to wind up....but I don't think he's that slow (is he?) in reality. He looks slow moving...but isn't?
I like his size and what he could/can offer taking early hitups in the tackle count. Simply doesn't do it enough. We know he can score the acrobatic winger tries......

I rather he be in the side at the moment than out of it.....

 

[Mr Fourex]

At the moment it's nobodies job. Someone who can defend needs to be moved beside him to stop the traffic going his way.

Been mentioned since Toni Carroll retired. We need somebody defending alongside our half/halves that will make the opposition think twice about running towards them. Carroll did it successfully for Locky for years......TC was a notorious hitman.

When he hit you...you stayed hit.

 

[McHunt]

Corey Parker:

“Without Payne and Pat in the middle, who does their work? You can’t red-line those blokes every week."​

​

“The dominance you try and get in a game all starts in the middle. Collectively, as a team, they need to even the workload out a little bit more. It was a bit of a reality check for them and a punch in the face, as Kevvie put it. It’s not panic stations yet but they just need a bit more from everyone across the park.”​

​

“I get that Kotoni's coming back from a knee reconstruction, and we’re probably not going to see the best of him in round 3, but it doesn’t eliminate him from getting his hands on the ball. His first run on Sunday and he threw Valentine Holmes three metres backwards. That to me suggests you give him the ball more to get after it. You look at Herbie Farnworth and if he’s not getting the ball, he goes looking for it. I want to see Kotoni get that into his game. I want to see him get into dummy-half and scoot like Justin Hodges and Brent Tate used to do.”​

​

“Flegler's going to have to add some punch but he hasn’t played footy in a while. I’m not real sure how many minutes he will play or what you will get. He trialled really well but it’s a month into the NRL.”​

McHunt

 

[McHunt]

Rewatched the game... defence is more an attitude thing and I've got to think that alot of the second half tries were the result of the team dropping their heads a little, but in attack....

We get monstered and suffocated by a defensive line rushing up and wishing the referee would call a penalty is not an appropriate strategy these days - Storm, Roosters, Panthers all exploit this and whinging about it solves nothing, so we need to learn how to take advantage of it.

It looks worse because our players receive the ball often standing still, completely flat footed or have to slow down / stop to catch a pass from dummy half which is way too high or low or out to either side, meaning we have limited forward momentum and the defence is on top of our players in no time.

I've been bashing Herbie for never passing unless he's standing still and receiving it from dummy half, but really the same applies to our entire team other than maybe Albert, who's getting it too late most of the time.

Jake's distribution has become increasingly woeful, especially the feckless drop behind to a stationary forward that's become his signature play. Whoever's been coaching him to do that week in, week out, has to share the blame, as do his first receivers for putting up with it. This is what Reynolds is supposed to fix.

Speaking of which, Adam did not look a happy man in that press conference. I hope this is the start of him stamping his authority on the team, including selection and direction. Maybe he was ashamed of his own errors. That's fair enough, but he's experienced enough to have been through bad days with the boot to know shit happens, and sometimes when it rains it pours.

 

[Browny]

Don’t let this result overshadow the Storm losing and Titans shitting the bed

 

[heartly87]

I finally just got around to watching the game. The score looked bad but I didn't see a lot that has me in panic mode. Katoni game influenced Cobbo's and they both ended up costing us around 20 points at least.

I think this game brought me back to reality. Expecting us to go on a run was a bit of a pipe dream. We are not clicking yet obviously and we need more spark of the bench, I am with @Huge on his assessment of James not really offering much. Kev made a mistake by bringing in Jensen only to not use him effectively. Reynolds and Nui both are only into their second games as is Hetherington. The combinations are not there yet.

The biggest issue out of that game is our right side, in both attack and defense. They need to get some confidence and quick because they have been exposed this week. All it takes is a couple of tries, a few catches and a break or two and things will start working out.

I actually don't want Kev to drop anyone, this team needs the first seven rounds at least to gel. If we start cleaning house we will be stuck cleaning house every few games because nobody can form a groove. Like I said this week was a reality check for me. We will lose games, the boys just have to let that one go and build for the Warriors.

 

[Huge]

I finally just got around to watching the game. The score looked bad but I didn't see a lot that has me in panic mode. Katoni game influenced Cobbo's and they both ended up costing us around 20 points at least.

I think this game brought me back to reality. Expecting us to go on a run was a bit of a pipe dream. We are not clicking yet obviously and we need more spark of the bench, I am with @Huge on his assessment of James not really offering much. Kev made a mistake by bringing in Jensen only to not use him effectively. Reynolds and Nui both are only into their second games as is Hetherington. The combinations are not there yet.

The biggest issue out of that game is our right side, in both attack and defense. They need to get some confidence and quick because they have been exposed this week. All it takes is a couple of tries, a few catches and a break or two and things will start working out.

I actually don't want Kev to drop anyone, this team needs the first seven rounds at least to gel. If we start cleaning house we will be stuck cleaning house every few games because nobody can form a groove. Like I said this week was a reality check for me. We will lose games, the boys just have to let that one go and build for the Warriors.

On James.
For consideration here is his contribution over three games.


106 mins. 107 metres. 43 post contact metres

Yuk. That's one and three quarter hours for a whopping 107 metres.
****, he must talk a really great game.

Oh, in RKs 23 mins? In less than a quarter of that time he made 53 metres and 20 pcm. Didn't talk as much though, right? Maybe less talk more action from James?

I know who I'd rather have out there.