Round 4 - Dragons v Broncos - Post Match Discussion

rnabokov said:
Sorry, I disagree.

Yes, the edge (and wider) defence cost us 3 (or was it 2) soft tries - no doubts, and it was again a big problem in the Dragons match.

My point however is that with a decent 5/8 (again Widdop just as one example 'cos I really like him), we would have been at least 12-18 points ahead so it would have still been a win for us.

Can you imagine Widdop kicking to Vidot? Whoa ...

THAT is what I am talking about. Hoffman ATM, is a point scoring liability, and unless he improves dramatically soon, it will cost us as it did in the Roosters match, and especially in future games v teams like Manly, and the Bulldogs in particular.

In my view, we are playing top 4 level football right now up to the point of scoring on both sides as a result of 2 effective play making halves.

I can only imagine the extra tries we might have scored if we had a decent playmaking 5/8
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Lucky Hoffman can defend well enough to stop the other team scoring. Our defense has won the games for us. If we had Prince or Sandow or Adam Reynolds we would have the same problems as last year. Hoffman isn't to blame for the late tries the Roosters scored to beat us.
 
Cultofpersonality3 said:
Lucky Hoffman can defend well enough to stop the other team scoring. Our defense has won the games for us. If we had Prince or Sandow or Adam Reynolds we would have the same problems as last year. Hoffman isn't to blame for the late tries the Roosters scored to beat us.
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I must not be making myself clear.

I am not criticising Hoffman for his defence. I am saying he cripples our attack, and with him in the side, we are always deprived of at least 12 points.

I say again. How many tries has Vidot scored off kicks from Hoffman? How many tries would Vidot score if we had say Widdop, Foran, Maloney, Reynolds etc etc in our side?

We have try scoring potential in our back line which is NOT being used.

That is my point
 
rnabokov said:
I must not be making myself clear.

I am not criticising Hoffman for his defence. I am saying he cripples our attack, and with him in the side, we are always deprived of at least 12 points.

I say again. How many tries has Vidot scored off kicks from Hoffman? How many tries would Vidot score if we had say Widdop, Foran, Maloney, Reynolds etc etc in our side?

We have try scoring potential in our back line which is NOT being used.

That is my point
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Yes but I can make up stats about how many points would be scored against us with any other option playing in that position. Let's say 18.
 
Cultofpersonality3 said:
Yes but I can make up stats about how many points would be scored against us with any other option playing in that position. Let's say 18.
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Are you seriously saying that Hoffman is the best defensive 5/8 we can throw in there? Somehow I doubt that.

Your logic also infers we select a 5/8 solely for his defensive capabilities, because Hoffman certainly offers 30% of a decent 5/8's attacking potential ATM ... read ... at the moment, and I am not seeing much to show me he is going to change much for the better.

I'll also make up some stats.

Barba gets more involved and we score 18 more points a game.

Hoffman kicks to Vidot and we score at least 2 tries more a game
 
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rnabokov said:
Are you seriously saying that Hoffman is the best defensive 5/8 we can throw in there?
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Currently, yeah? It's working. Could throw Gillett or Glenn in there but they're doing well where they are. Who else could be a better defensive 5/8?
 
I do believe the term is running half.
 
rnabokov said:
I must not be making myself clear.

I am not criticising Hoffman for his defence. I am saying he cripples our attack, and with him in the side, we are always deprived of at least 12 points.

I say again. How many tries has Vidot scored off kicks from Hoffman? How many tries would Vidot score if we had say Widdop, Foran, Maloney, Reynolds etc etc in our side?

We have try scoring potential in our back line which is NOT being used.

That is my point
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Which is a fair enough point IMO. However, Barba does fill in as that extra ball player. So we have already have Hunt and Barba as the ball playing options

Do we need Hoffman filling that role as well? I think as he starts to pick his times better, his running game could be very effective and his kicking will improve with confidence as well. I still don't see him ever as a prolific passer of the ball, but it could be something we find ourselves celebrating .....once or twice for the season

.......and we don't have a "Widdop, Foran, Maloney, Reynolds etc etc" waiting on the sideline.

We have two young rookies and a guy who can't play more than 30 mins of football without injuring himself.

I think the spine as it is.....might just get us through the year relatively unscathed. Key player #1 is Ben Hunt. If he goes well which is still a big IF, IMO ....then the rest will take care of themselves.

Barba is still playing way short of confidence and appears still not fully fit. Key player #2..........together they will score us enough points. Hoffman will fill a slot well enough for the rest of the year, until Milford comes in 2015

after that Josh can play on the wing or hit the bricks.
 
Getting carried away a bit there guys. No one knows if we'd score points without Hoffman at 5/8. Maybe we'd score more, maybe we'd score less - who knows.

At the moment, it's working. And I think Hunt, Macca, Hoffman and Barba are forming a good combination. But the biggest thing is, they're getting help from Parker and co. playing first receiver a lot. The amount of pressure that's been taken off Hunt in the last 2 games is the reason he's done so well. I just hope they can continue to do so.
 
Alec said:
Picking a half on defence, Jesus Christ.
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... and a Hail Mary or 3.

Still, it's the devil you know.

Oh well, let us all keep faith. I am. As everyone keeps saying, what choice do I have?

Meanwhile, I'm going back to the Milford Signs with the Broncos thread.
 
rnabokov said:
Sorry, I disagree.

Yes, the edge (and wider) defence cost us 3 (or was it 2) soft tries - no doubts, and it was again a big problem in the Dragons match.

My point however is that with a decent 5/8 (again Widdop just as one example 'cos I really like him), we would have been at least 12-18 points ahead so it would have still been a win for us.

Can you imagine Widdop kicking to Vidot? Whoa ...

THAT is what I am talking about. Hoffman ATM, is a point scoring liability, and unless he improves dramatically soon, it will cost us as it did in the Roosters match, and especially in future games v teams like Manly, and the Bulldogs in particular.

In my view, we are playing top 4 level football right now up to the point of scoring on both sides as a result of 2 effective play making halves.

In short, I believe we are competitive against the very best sides with one play maker short. At the business end of the season, unless we compete on equal terms with the top sides - that is, with 2 decent halves and not 1, we are cactus for the semis.

I can only imagine the extra tries we might have scored if we had a decent playmaking 5/8.
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if I imagined Widdop kicking to Vidot then all I see is Vidot dropping the ball
 
For the Hoffman lovers :takdir:

 
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That was ordinary, but a lot of that try came down to the build up of that set which allowed Mortimer to waltz out of dummy half easy as you like.

For balance, why not put his game saver against JT?
 
Vidot has played well for us so far...but his work under the high ball has been pretty shoddy.

Conceded points against both the Cowboys & Dragons, plus that effort in the second half was ugly.
 
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