PRE-GAME Round 4 - Roosters vs Broncos

[Huge]

I will express post you 5mg of XYZcaine/cortisone mix with syringe to inject into your bicep. You tell me how well you perform when you're home alone browsing the internet.

You will then understand how its not an enhancing drug.

Clearly you have no understanding of what a performance enhancement is.

I'll state it again.
A player is asked to crash through the pads at training but is unwilling to due to enormous pain he cannot overcome. That's his unaided current performance level established.
The player receives an injection in the affected area removing the pain and is again asked to crash through the pads.
This time he can. His current performance is now enhanced. Simple. The drug was a performance enhancer.

It makes NO DIFFERENCE that the medicated performance level and his pre-injury performance level were the same.
It's plain and simple. The drug is not intended to be a performance enhancer but in this narrow set of circumstances, it most certainly is.

 

[Brotherdu]

Clearly you have no understanding of what a performance enhancement is.

I'll state it again.
A player is asked to crash through the pads at training but is unwilling to due to enormous pain he cannot overcome. That's his unaided current performance level established.
The player receives an injection in the affected area removing the pain and is again asked to crash through the pads.
This time he can. His current performance is now enhanced. Simple. The drug was a performance enhancer.

It makes NO DIFFERENCE that the medicated performance level and his pre-injury performance level were the same.
It's plain and simple. The drug is not intended to be a performance enhancer but in this narrow set of circumstances, it most certainly is.

I'm with you on this one.

 

[mrslong]

Clearly you have no understanding of what a performance enhancement is.

I'll state it again.
A player is asked to crash through the pads at training but is unwilling to due to enormous pain he cannot overcome. That's his unaided current performance level established.
The player receives an injection in the affected area removing the pain and is again asked to crash through the pads.
This time he can. His current performance is now enhanced. Simple. The drug was a performance enhancer.

It makes NO DIFFERENCE that the medicated performance level and his pre-injury performance level were the same.
It's plain and simple. The drug is not intended to be a performance enhancer but in this narrow set of circumstances, it most certainly is.

Yeah, but it's a slippery slope.

What about strapping? If your knee is slightly damaged you might not be able to run as fast as you would if you put strapping on. Performance enhancing strapping!

You might be feeling lethargic, running slowly. Here have some Gatorade. Energy is restored, can run faster. Performance enhancing Gatorade!

 

[Old Mate]

Yeah, but it's a slippery slope.

What about strapping? If your knee is slightly damaged you might not be able to run as fast as you would if you put strapping on. Performance enhancing strapping!

You might be feeling lethargic, running slowly. Here have some Gatorade. Energy is restored, can run faster. Performance enhancing Gatorade!

**** it, no food or drink 24hrs before a game. I want a level competition.

 

[Wolfie]

It's all a perspective thing in my opinion. If we consider a players performance level with the injury untreated as the initial level then give him a drug which enhances that level then it's truly a performance enhancing drug. This has been my position for decades and I have written this before on this site.

Without opening discussion on Cronulla and it's use of drugs it's my belief the drugs issued there were to enable quicker recovery times in much the same way that a needle aids in quicker recovery. I have never thought they were intended to build muscle mass in the manner that gym junkies, body builders etc used them. Naturally, Cronulla's use of them was still wrong whatever the intended or anticipated benefits were.

I suppose the issue regarding Cronulla was their use was illegal, whereas a painkilling injection isn't?

 

[ivanhungryjak]

**** it, no food or drink 24hrs before a game. I want a level competition.

Also, no getting clues from coaches on how to enhance their performances at all. Let them work it out for themselves.

 

[heartly87]

Clearly you have no understanding of what a performance enhancement is.

I'll state it again.
A player is asked to crash through the pads at training but is unwilling to due to enormous pain he cannot overcome. That's his unaided current performance level established.
The player receives an injection in the affected area removing the pain and is again asked to crash through the pads.
This time he can. His current performance is now enhanced. Simple. The drug was a performance enhancer.

It makes NO DIFFERENCE that the medicated performance level and his pre-injury performance level were the same.
It's plain and simple. The drug is not intended to be a performance enhancer but in this narrow set of circumstances, it most certainly is.

Sorry but this is ridiculous semantics. A pain killer is not performance enhancing in any way shape or form. It does not push the body to do things it can not naturally do. In your argument it would not even be an enhancement and infact the player would only go from feeling 80% or so to about 85- 90% post the injection and a lot of that is placebo and the players attitude. In your argument a half time rub down or another player stretching out a cramp would be performance enhancing or how about oranges and electrolyte drinks. Give me a break.

 

[Huge]

Sorry but this is ridiculous semantics. A pain killer is not performance enhancing in any way shape or form. It does not push the body to do things it can not naturally do. In your argument it would not even be an enhancement and infact the player would only go from feeling 80% or so to about 85- 90% post the injection and a lot of that is placebo and the players attitude. In your argument a half time rub down or another player stretching out a cramp would be performance enhancing or how about oranges and electrolyte drinks. Give me a break.

So you cannot see how a players performance is enhanced by the injection? What's ridiculous is your illogical belief that only an increase in what a body can do naturally is an enhancement! I established my criteria so I shouldn't have to explain that again. An injection allows the player to do something the player couldn't do prior to the injection. It's an enhancement. Your comparison to oranges or a rub down are as odious as it is stupid. Whether a player receives a rub down/oranges or not their performance is not enhanced. They very well may have been able to perform the task either way but that IS NOT the case without the performance enhancing injection.

 

[tommy]

The injection is a drug is it not? Oranges and rubdowns aren't a drug.

 

[ivanhungryjak]

Broncos star’s father undergoes heart surgery hours before NRL game

Brisbane star Tevita Pangai Jr will run onto the SCG on Thursday night thinking of his father, who underwent heart surgery just hours earlier.

• April 4, 2019 10:53am
• by Staff writers
• Source: FOX SPORTS

Apr 5 2019
5:00PM

Tevita Pangai Jr of the Broncos will be thinking of his father on Thursday night.Source: Getty Images
Fairfax Media revealed Tevita Pangai senior suffered a heart attack on Tuesdayin Canberra and was rushed to hospital.
He was due to be operated on on Thursday morning, as his son prepares to line up for the Broncos in their Round 4 game against the Roosters up the highway.
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The rest of the Pangai family will be with his father while the 23-year-old wrecking ball plies his craft for Brisbane.
“Dad is in hospital and none of the family will be there (at the SCG) on Thursday night. He had a heart attack on Tuesday,” brother David told the Sydney Morning Herald.
“It was pretty bad. A few of the arteries were blocked. He’s booked in for an operation at 7am on Thursday.
“When Tevita found out, Dad told him: ‘I’m in good care, let the doctors do their job, you just focus on your football’.

Tallis: Pangai not worth $1m
2:54
“He’ll take a bit of that into the game and I think he’ll have a big game for the old man.”
Pangai Jr will follow his father’s advice and play the game instead of rush to Canberra to be with his family.
MORE NRL NEWS
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The young star is locked in a bidding war for his future, and will go up against the club largely tipped to poach his services from 2020.
The Roosters are said to be preparing a significant offer for the promising forward in the hope of luring him away from Red Hill.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...e/news-story/00fa4ac4f4e67dc2c51077bd184371de

Our prep for this game has certainly been less than ideal.

 

[Kimlo]

So you cannot see how a players performance is enhanced by the injection? What's ridiculous is your illogical belief that only an increase in what a body can do naturally is an enhancement! I established my criteria so I shouldn't have to explain that again. An injection allows the player to do something the player couldn't do prior to the injection. It's an enhancement. Your comparison to oranges or a rub down are as odious as it is stupid. Whether a player receives a rub down/oranges or not their performance is not enhanced. They very well may have been able to perform the task either way but that IS NOT the case without the performance enhancing injection.

I may be way off but my understanding with PEDs isn't so much how much they enhance performance but rather that they are generally unsafe for human use (aka steroids) and rather than everyone having to take steroids to be on a level playing field at the risk of their own long term health, it is a banned substance that no one should take for the betterment of all athletes.

 

[Renegade]

So you cannot see how a players performance is enhanced by the injection? What's ridiculous is your illogical belief that only an increase in what a body can do naturally is an enhancement! I established my criteria so I shouldn't have to explain that again. An injection allows the player to do something the player couldn't do prior to the injection. It's an enhancement. Your comparison to oranges or a rub down are as odious as it is stupid. Whether a player receives a rub down/oranges or not their performance is not enhanced. They very well may have been able to perform the task either way but that IS NOT the case without the performance enhancing injection.

An injection is not an enhancement because it does not provide them with additional performance benefits outside of their normal range. Ie, if someone has a banged up shoulder and they receive an injection, it does not provide them additional strength comparable to what they are already physically capable of when not injured.

I understand what you are saying, but performance enhancing is more than the pure semantics. Otherwise everything is performance enhancing, water, nutrition, exercise and so on.

 

[Morkel]

So you cannot see how a players performance is enhanced by the injection? What's ridiculous is your illogical belief that only an increase in what a body can do naturally is an enhancement! I established my criteria so I shouldn't have to explain that again. An injection allows the player to do something the player couldn't do prior to the injection. It's an enhancement. Your comparison to oranges or a rub down are as odious as it is stupid. Whether a player receives a rub down/oranges or not their performance is not enhanced. They very well may have been able to perform the task either way but that IS NOT the case without the performance enhancing injection.

It's a perfect analogy.

Injury that prevents use of that muscle/limb due to pain or immobilisation, fixed with a needle so doesn't hurt.
Injury that prevents use of that muscle/limb due to pain or immobilisation, fixed with a massage so doesn't hurt.

You're only arguing this because Sharks, just because you claim that the punishment they received should still stand isn't fooling anyone.

 

[Brotherdu]

Interesting article from a few years back which quotes the head of WADA.

"It is a grey zone. In my opinion pain killers fulfil all requirements of a doping substance because normally pain is a protection mechanism of the body and with pain killers you switch of this protection system, like if you switch off fatigue, which is also a protection mechanism of the body.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-18282072

 

[Eta Carinae]

I tipped us to win in Round 1 because I thought they were on the decline and we were on the rise even though there was obviously a big distance between us last year.

Based on our performance in R1 and what I saw of the Cowboys in R1, I tipped them.

Based on R1 and R2 and our performance vs theirs, I obviously tipped us.

So this round I think they will win so I tipped them. If my tipping follows continues along the same trend, we are a certainty to win tonight.

 

[Chewed]

Carrigan going to play tonight....????

 

[Huge]

An injection is not an enhancement because it does not provide them with additional performance benefits outside of their normal range. Ie, if someone has a banged up shoulder and they receive an injection, it does not provide them additional strength comparable to what they are already physically capable of when not injured.

I understand what you are saying, but performance enhancing is more than the pure semantics. Otherwise everything is performance enhancing, water, nutrition, exercise and so on.

It seems that many on here do not have a clear understanding of the word 'enhance' or 'enhancement'. I'm not going to argue until a definition is agreed upon.

 

[ivanhungryjak]

Was going to make a joke about enhancements here but probably would’ve made a tit of myself.