Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

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Re: Sack Griffin

broncos4life said:
That stat is somewhat skewed by the origin period/fade out and the fact that we have had a relatively difficult run as far as opposition early on this season.

However, what steps would you take to fix this. Is there a coach available you think would do a better job than griffin? What players would you get rid of and who would you replace them with (ones that would actually have a chance of changing clubs, saying guys like slater, Cronk and smith would be counter productive)
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You can't defend a stat that says we are 15th on the form ladder over a 20 game period. Maybe if we were 8th-10th you could say with a fairer draw we'd be top 4, but if we are 15th what's a fairer draw going to do? Put us in 11th or 12th -- still not good enough.
 
Re: Sack Griffin

Ari Gold said:
You can't defend a stat that says we are 15th on the form ladder over a 20 game period. Maybe if we were 8th-10th you could say with a fairer draw we'd be top 4, but if we are 15th what's a fairer draw going to do? Put us in 11th or 12th -- still not good enough.
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That is a skewed truth, the stats are absolutely damning,but if we look at the actual games and opposition, the truth is we didn't do as bad as it looks:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 770"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Team
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]H/A[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]W/L[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Result[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Comment[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Warriors[/TD]
[TD]Home[/TD]
[TD]Win[/TD]
[TD]10-8[/TD]
[TD]Good tough win[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Titans[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]14-10[/TD]
[TD]Should've done better
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Eels[/TD]
[TD]Home[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]22-42[/TD]
[TD]Horrible[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Raiders[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]28-12[/TD]
[TD]Could've done better, but no shame in losing this one agains an in form Raiders[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bulldogs[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]22-14[/TD]
[TD]Played well, but lost to the finalists[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Storm[/TD]
[TD]Home[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]18-19[/TD]
[TD]As above, to the future premiers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Manly[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]16-6[/TD]
[TD]No shame in that[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Panthers[/TD]
[TD]Home[/TD]
[TD]Win[/TD]
[TD]19-12[/TD]
[TD]Mandatory crappy win[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cowboys[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]33-16[/TD]
[TD]Cowboys were putting most teams to the sword[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Manly[/TD]
[TD]Home[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]14-22[/TD]
[TD]Bad capitulation in the second half, but good signs in the first[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dragons[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Win[/TD]
[TD]6-22[/TD]
[TD]Very good tough win[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roosters[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]8-0[/TD]
[TD]Loss to a top team with the best defence, no shame in that in hindsight[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Storm[/TD]
[TD]Home[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]26-32[/TD]
[TD]Unlucky to loose that one, refs screwed us too[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Titans[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Win[/TD]
[TD]12-32[/TD]
[TD]Very good win against a top 4 team[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cowboys[/TD]
[TD]Home[/TD]
[TD]Win[/TD]
[TD]12-10[/TD]
[TD]Tough win against a Cowboys who played one of their better games of the season[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tigers[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Win[/TD]
[TD]10-20[/TD]
[TD]Scrappy win, disappointing performance[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Souths[/TD]
[TD]Home[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]12-26[/TD]
[TD]We were better than the scoreline tells, but got put to the sword during 10 fatidic minutes by what is currently the best team in the comp.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Eels[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]18-19[/TD]
[TD]Bad loss, no excuses, we were shit![/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Titans[/TD]
[TD]Home[/TD]
[TD]Win[/TD]
[TD]32-6[/TD]
[TD]Excellent win against a Titans team that sefl destructed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bulldogs[/TD]
[TD]Away[/TD]
[TD]Loss[/TD]
[TD]24-14[/TD]
[TD]We lost it in the forwards battle and were screwed by the refs.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

As the Broncos, we must expect and demand better, but we also need to be realistic!
We can all throw the toys out of the cot, yet I'd like to see people actually come up with ideas on how to change the current course?

- Should we do what Penrith is doing and throw the chequebook at contracted players, regardless of whether he is still signed long term to his club?
- Should we sack Griffin because he can't seem to make this player's group perform at an acceptable level, in which case the next question is... Who do we hire?

I don't blame the recruitment, simply because I don't think much could realistically have been done by the club.
The worthwhile players that came to the market, were either absolute fuckheads (Dugan), demanded too much coin for what they're worth on the field (Soward, Widdop), or simply weren't willing to move out of their current club (Thurston, Cronk, DCE).

I have no issue with Prince's recruitment either, and really don't buy the "he wasn't going to Qcup no matter what". Fact is he outplayed and out-trained both Hunt and Norman, with the latter throwing a tantrum and running to Parra for a guaranteed 5/8 spot he doesn't deserve!

In all honesty, I have had more faith in Hook that I have now, and I am cutting him some slack and giving him a discount for having had to deal with the worst injury run in the club's history.

We can all say Wallace, Prince, Macca, Norman, etc... need to go, but who do we replace them with?
Maybe those players are too comfortable with the knowledge they won't be demoted by lack of better, in which case, do we give up on the current season, and start building towards the future now with insisting with Hunt (with whom?), moving Kahu to fullback, and start to give some of our big boys in the U20's (Timu, Oates, etc...) a taste of the NRL?

Sorry for the long read, but it's just too easy to just relentlessly bag the club and everything that moves with a Broncos jersey. I'd like to see a debate where people can give their opinion on how we can move into the future and become again the force we should be.
 
Re: Sack Griffin

I think the first step is simple - be ambitious and aggresive. Hook is not an ambitious coach and it permeates through his entire game plan. His game plan is basically let's force the other team to beat us and not lose it ourselves -- a plan that goes to shit when the opposition turns up to play, because when they do, we duly lose as we have no real game plan except hope the other team doesn't do the basics right.

Go through that last of wins and I think you will find a number of them will be against teams who didn't do the basics right - Titans last week when they gave away 10 penalties, the Tigers earlier this year when they made all those first half errors etc. Also go through that list of losses, you'll find most of them are where the other team did the basics right and duly won because they had a plan beyond just doing the percentages. Find a game among the list where the other team did the basics right against us and actually lost. There won't be many, and the ones that are will be against vastly inferior rosters.

Hook doesn't try to win games, he tries not to lose them. The Broncos of old tried to win. That's the first place we need to start, and so long as Hook is around I'm not sure we'll even begin that journey.
 
Re: Sack Griffin

My first step would be to sign an Assistant coach to specifically work on our attack. Both Kearney and Griffin are both very boring defence orientated coaches IMO. I like Hook regardless of how much I bag him. He seems a great guy but he needs help. The 2 best young halves in the game have Joey Johns working with them at Manly. Who is helping our halves out?
 
Re: Sack Griffin

Bucking Beads said:
I have well and truly thrown my toys out of my cot. This club is getting run in to the ground by all involved. Coach, CEO, Football Manager. We will be parra in a year.
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Wow, lets not get too crazy here.
 
Re: Sack Griffin

If I could go back in time I would stuff Cullen in a shipping container and we would have Bellamy and any player we wanted.

Probably a premiership too.
 
Re: Sack Griffin

Bucking Beads said:
My first step would be to sign an Assistant coach to specifically work on our attack. Both Kearney and Griffin are both very boring defence orientated coaches IMO. I like Hook regardless of how much I bag him. He seems a great guy but he needs help. The 2 best young halves in the game have Joey Johns working with them at Manly. Who is helping our halves out?
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Locky!
 
Re: Sack Griffin

Bucking Beads said:
How often is he at the club helping?? once a week?? I think we need someone full time to work on our attacking structures.
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Definitely. I think I've said it before but I never understand why we don't have more full time specialist coaches, it's not included in the cap so go nuts!
 
Re: Sack Griffin

Truthfully we shouldn't need a specialist coach for any part of the teams attack simply because we have a coach . I mean, how does one get a job as coach if the jobs prerequisites include the following, namely that you have a complete understanding of the game, a plan to improve the team and the ability to impart the required knowledge and attitude ? By all means have assistants to help with training and skills but ffs , surely Griffin knows how to train his players. As WB always said, it's not a complicated game.
 
Re: Sack Griffin

Well, after opining elsewhere about how well we really have played this year with Prince in the side (:thumbup1: ) I just wanted to say that if one watches replays of those games, you will see some pretty amazingly good attacking football, and fantastic tries.

Even down the right hand side, and even up the middle, many of which I reckon are as good as any this season. Manly, Titans (1st game) Souths, Cowboys, Storm. Sure, we lost a lot, but still played some great football.

So it's not our abilities, or lack of structures IMO, its .... consistency which is a real issue. Even with Prince in the side hahaha. So that is my major gripe with the coaching staff, but then, we don't have a true leader and organizer in the side.

To me, that is at the root of the problems in attack. If Lockyer was out there, we would be putting on those fantastic plays consistently, every week.

Instead, we go back to the Bennett ball of one out bash and barge 'cos we just lose focus and wait for someone to do something instead of getting it to happen often, regularly and with consistently good execution.

As well, as Coxy I think posted, in reply to Pete, the problems with this side are not just attack. For mine, our defence this year has been seriously ordinary at many crucial moments.

Like Macca facing Kasiano on his own.

I think it is less a case of sacking Hook than seriously questioning the competence of those who thought far far too little about dealing with the leadership and organizing void left by Lockyer's retirement.
 
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Re: Sack Griffin

Agree with that, rnabokov - the lack on on-field leadership is as clear as day and the lack of consistency even throughout a game, comes down in a large part to that.

Solid teams have one organiser; the top teams have 2+. We don't have one.

But it's fair to also question the coaching. The military have things drilled into them by repetition so in the heat of the moment, without thinking, those actions are automatic. Now, there's not necessarily a need to have military-style coaching - but the team needs to raise their 'base level' automatic style of play to a much higher level to be competitive.

Case in point - we should have belted the Tigers by 40+, but took our foot off the pedal and VERY nearly lost it. Still pissed about that performance.
 
Re: Sack Griffin

LittleDavey83 said:
Agree with that, rnabokov - the lack on on-field leadership is as clear as day and the lack of consistency even throughout a game, comes down in a large part to that.

Solid teams have one organiser; the top teams have 2+. We don't have one.

But it's fair to also question the coaching. The military have things drilled into them by repetition so in the heat of the moment, without thinking, those actions are automatic. Now, there's not necessarily a need to have military-style coaching - but the team needs to raise their 'base level' automatic style of play to a much higher level to be competitive.

Case in point - we should have belted the Tigers by 40+, but took our foot off the pedal and VERY nearly lost it. Still ****ed about that performance.
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Yes, agree. Each individual in the team needs to keep the pedal to the metal for the 80, and that responsibility is very much Hook's.

One of his major problems however still is that when not on the training paddock, there is no one to go up the players on the field 'cos no one can.

You can't coach leadership and that organizing ability say, that Lockyer had. It's something you're born with.

I think he must be so frustrated.
 
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Re: Sack Griffin

I don't know if there is a better coach out there right now for us, but Griffin isn't good enough for the standard we've set over the years.
 
Re: Sack Griffin

I do have fear for our goal line defence. Bulldogs found it so easy to isolate small guys in our line and run big boppers at them. Simply shouldn't happen.
 
Re: Sack Griffin

Alec said:
I don't know if there is a better coach out there right now for us, but Griffin isn't good enough for the standard we've set over the years.
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There isn't but Hasler wasn't off contract when the Dogs got him was he.
 
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