- May 21, 2013
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The fact that you guys are going through hours of footage to try and find a single instance of Hunt putting in a good grubber and not getting rewarded for it is absolutely hilarious to me, keep it guys. :lol:
Should the Broncos renew Hunt's contract
- Thread starter Big Pete
- Start date
Danoz Direct
NRL Captain
- Oct 12, 2013
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Ok then we have settled it. We all agree Ben Hunt has a decent kicking game on him and Ben Hunt doesn't have a good kicking game on him.
- Sep 19, 2012
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Ben Hunt doesn't not kick in a game.
Big Pete
International Captain
- Mar 12, 2008
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In terms of his short-kicking game, Ben Hunt is simply mediocre. Over the course of the last season, Hunt was able to force 12 goal-line drop outs, which is slightly above the season average of 11. It also puts him in the same company as players like Cooper Cronk & Aidan Sezer. In the case of Cronk, it could be considered an off-year, while Hunt has always averaged close to this number over the past three seasons (13).
Top 10 Goal Line Drop Outs 2016 (Halves)
Johnathan Thurston - 26
Gareth Widdop - 25
Shaun Johnson - 23
Ashley Taylor - 22
Adam Reynolds - 17
James Maloney - 16
Blake Green - 16
Moses Mbye - 14
Anthony Milford - 13
Mitchell Moses - 13
Top 10 Goal Line Drop Outs 2016 (Halves)
Johnathan Thurston - 26
Gareth Widdop - 25
Shaun Johnson - 23
Ashley Taylor - 22
Adam Reynolds - 17
James Maloney - 16
Blake Green - 16
Moses Mbye - 14
Anthony Milford - 13
Mitchell Moses - 13
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- Mar 5, 2014
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Interesting stats. Worth a mention that Smith probably us their go to go for the grubber close to the line. More a case of less opportunities than effectiveness for Cronk I think.
- Oct 17, 2013
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A lack of forced goal line drop outs don't prove that he is a bad kicker. The highlights show that instead of repeat sets Ben Hunt scores or sets up tries. They also show that when he puts some in grubbers the chasers don't do their job and I also gave a perfect example where he would have got at least one more repeat set but due to a referees error he didn't. The only stat that proves anything is a percentage of how many times he made ineffective kicks over how many times he was in the opposition 20.
If this was a court room and someone was claiming that Ben Hunt stole something, you would have to prove that it actually happens. All I'm seeing is people proving otherwise, numerous times. For the record I am aware that his kicking isn't great. I just don't think it is bad enough for certain people to bring it up so often. I want somebody who is making these claims to put In some effort and back up their argument with a fact or two. They clearly have the time to do so. I honestly think our biggest problems come from Oates not catching bombs, Kahu and Parker not being able to kick goals and Milford not showing up for half the season.
If this was a court room and someone was claiming that Ben Hunt stole something, you would have to prove that it actually happens. All I'm seeing is people proving otherwise, numerous times. For the record I am aware that his kicking isn't great. I just don't think it is bad enough for certain people to bring it up so often. I want somebody who is making these claims to put In some effort and back up their argument with a fact or two. They clearly have the time to do so. I honestly think our biggest problems come from Oates not catching bombs, Kahu and Parker not being able to kick goals and Milford not showing up for half the season.
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- May 21, 2013
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Realistically the only statistic that is going to stop this debate is "Effective Kick% in Attacking Position", I highly doubt such a statistic exists, NRL seems to only keep very basic stats, which is unfortunate.
If someone knows of a website with advanced metrics, please help us out. I've had a look but can't find anything.
Honestly at some point we're going to just have to agree to disagree, some of us think that Hunt sucks ass at short kicking and some of us think he's below average at short kicking, we're arguing over a pretty small thing. Either way you look at it he's below average and needs to fix it if we're going to win a premiership.
Disclaimer: I also think that Oates having feethands & us having no good goal kicker were major contributors for us not making it further this year.
If someone knows of a website with advanced metrics, please help us out. I've had a look but can't find anything.
Honestly at some point we're going to just have to agree to disagree, some of us think that Hunt sucks ass at short kicking and some of us think he's below average at short kicking, we're arguing over a pretty small thing. Either way you look at it he's below average and needs to fix it if we're going to win a premiership.
Disclaimer: I also think that Oates having feethands & us having no good goal kicker were major contributors for us not making it further this year.
- May 21, 2013
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The Roosters, Rabbitohs & Titans all averaged less running metres per game than the Broncos in 2016, it's kind of oversold how "bad" our forward pack is, they make a reasonable amount of metres, we just leak far too many metres on defence, and we have some of the best defensive players in the game in our forward pack, it's just Wayne's "let them come to us" game plan.
I really hope he adjusts that mentality in the off-season, whilst it probably conserves a bit of energy for our forwards towards the back end of games, giving them so many easy metres constantly puts us under defensive pressure that we realistically shouldn't be under.
But yeah, it's not our forward pack getting "dominated", it's just the game plan I believe.
Big Pete
International Captain
- Mar 12, 2008
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While forced goal-line drop outs may not be the most accurate statistic, it's a key signifier. Using the Melbourne example, while Ben Hunt was unfortunate on that ocassion, there were several others where the kick wasn't that great but the opposition player made a meal of it. As they say, swings and round-a-bouts.
For what it's worth I looked through the footage using Champion Data as a guide and had both Milford & Hunt with 12 FGLD (Forced Goal Line Drop-Outs) from 26 Games. The Daily Telegraph may have counted other instances (eg. knock ons inside the 20) as apart of their stat. Point being, Hunt has led the stat for the Broncos these past three years, with little support. Meanwhile Johnathan Thurston enjoys the input of Lachlan Coote (16 FGLDs) and Michael Morgan (7), Cronk has Green (16) and Smith (9), Maloney has Townsend (12) and Ennis (9), and what that allows them is more time and space to put through the kick since the defence has to make a choice. With the Broncos, Ben Hunt has had to do more kicking than any other player in the competition over the past three seasons, making it an easy bet.
The problem with this thread is that people use colourful language to express their points and it causes members to get salty. It would be one thing if stats showed Hunt had the least effective kicking game, but in this instance even when he was 'struggling' Hunt was merely average. If that's an issue, that's fine, but there's no need to be over-dramatic. It isn't persuasive and it's limiting otherwise effective arguments.
As an aside, there's more criticisms to be made of Hunt's game. His defence was among the worst in the NRL and if he didn't have the best second row in the world alongside him then it would have been more pronounced. The other issue is his passing game which leaves a lot to be desired. If he's going to replace Thurston as the Origin halfback, these three areas need to be addressed.
In addition, the Broncos need to provide Hunt with more support. Andrew McCullough is often criticised for going missing, and while last season was an improvement on previous years (4 FGLDs, 4 times that of 2014 & 2015 respectively along with 3 40/20s), he needs to do a better job of organising the ruck, especially with Parker out of the equation. As he demonstrated against Melbourne, McCullough is capable of organising the side into a potent force, the issue is that he has tunnel vision and will often dispense the ball down one side of the ruck without ever threatening the defence or placing the ball in an area of the park where Hunt and Milford aren't comfortable.
The Broncos also require better production from their centres. Finding a suitable replacement for Jack Reed will go a long way to helping the sides fortunes, but they also need to get more out of Roberts. Roberts' form was patchy in 2016 as he struggled to position himself and make the most of his electric speed.
Then of course there's Milford who fell asleep after an explosive start to the season. Milford was never quite the same player after the Cronulla game, shirking a lot of the general responsibilities and making a gluttony of errors for his troubles.
Usually this goes without saying, but I believe this is worth pointing out. I don't believe anyone on here isn't appreciative of the input Ben Hunt has made from 2014-16. The issue is that in this game, if you're not constantly improving, then you're going backwards. Look at the adjustments Johnathan Thurston and Darren Lockyer made to their games over the year. Their bodies may have slowed down, but they constantly improved aspects of their game. Naturally fans just want to see the same improvement in Hunt.
For what it's worth I looked through the footage using Champion Data as a guide and had both Milford & Hunt with 12 FGLD (Forced Goal Line Drop-Outs) from 26 Games. The Daily Telegraph may have counted other instances (eg. knock ons inside the 20) as apart of their stat. Point being, Hunt has led the stat for the Broncos these past three years, with little support. Meanwhile Johnathan Thurston enjoys the input of Lachlan Coote (16 FGLDs) and Michael Morgan (7), Cronk has Green (16) and Smith (9), Maloney has Townsend (12) and Ennis (9), and what that allows them is more time and space to put through the kick since the defence has to make a choice. With the Broncos, Ben Hunt has had to do more kicking than any other player in the competition over the past three seasons, making it an easy bet.
The problem with this thread is that people use colourful language to express their points and it causes members to get salty. It would be one thing if stats showed Hunt had the least effective kicking game, but in this instance even when he was 'struggling' Hunt was merely average. If that's an issue, that's fine, but there's no need to be over-dramatic. It isn't persuasive and it's limiting otherwise effective arguments.
As an aside, there's more criticisms to be made of Hunt's game. His defence was among the worst in the NRL and if he didn't have the best second row in the world alongside him then it would have been more pronounced. The other issue is his passing game which leaves a lot to be desired. If he's going to replace Thurston as the Origin halfback, these three areas need to be addressed.
In addition, the Broncos need to provide Hunt with more support. Andrew McCullough is often criticised for going missing, and while last season was an improvement on previous years (4 FGLDs, 4 times that of 2014 & 2015 respectively along with 3 40/20s), he needs to do a better job of organising the ruck, especially with Parker out of the equation. As he demonstrated against Melbourne, McCullough is capable of organising the side into a potent force, the issue is that he has tunnel vision and will often dispense the ball down one side of the ruck without ever threatening the defence or placing the ball in an area of the park where Hunt and Milford aren't comfortable.
The Broncos also require better production from their centres. Finding a suitable replacement for Jack Reed will go a long way to helping the sides fortunes, but they also need to get more out of Roberts. Roberts' form was patchy in 2016 as he struggled to position himself and make the most of his electric speed.
Then of course there's Milford who fell asleep after an explosive start to the season. Milford was never quite the same player after the Cronulla game, shirking a lot of the general responsibilities and making a gluttony of errors for his troubles.
Usually this goes without saying, but I believe this is worth pointing out. I don't believe anyone on here isn't appreciative of the input Ben Hunt has made from 2014-16. The issue is that in this game, if you're not constantly improving, then you're going backwards. Look at the adjustments Johnathan Thurston and Darren Lockyer made to their games over the year. Their bodies may have slowed down, but they constantly improved aspects of their game. Naturally fans just want to see the same improvement in Hunt.
Morepudding
NRL Captain
- Dec 16, 2015
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He does this shit all the time and it drives me insane. The amount of 2nd/3rd and 4th tackle kicks he does is absolutely ridiculous and he basically never gets a result. If you look at any of the good halves, if they do a 3rd or even 4th tackle kick, they get a result more often than not. Hunt almost never does and just wastes the set.
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Morepudding
NRL Captain
- Dec 16, 2015
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The thing you gotta also look at though is amount of kicks done. I know for certain Hunt would have had significantly more kicks than Milford, and still has less repeat sets. Cronk and Smith and Blake green share a lot of kicking, but I am surprised Green was higher than Cronk, But i suppose Cronk usually does the long range kicks and then when attacking the line often passes it to Green who then either takes a kick or passes it on to a center, so i'm not completely shocked. This to me, shows that Milford is a better kicker because i'd be shocked if within the opposition 20 if Milford had even half the amount of kicks as Hunt...
- Dec 12, 2014
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Inside the 20 is the ONLY time Milford kicks.
Morepudding
NRL Captain
- Dec 16, 2015
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I know it's the only time he kicks, but Hunt would still do 2 or 3 kicks for Milfords 1 within the 20.
