Should There be a Salary Cap / National Draft?

[Nashy]

It is different because that is the players choice .... not the clubs and certainly not the governing body's

To add to that. The player can also choose to go to another club if their manager does his job well.

 

[Unbreakable]

They can choose to stick around in the lower grades of a club to work their way into that club, without the threat of the league coming in and saying "**** off to Melbourne of your career is over". It's a stupid system no matter which sport it's in.

What benefits does it bring that bring transparent with pays wouldn't bring? None. But it could bring some player resentment and certainly fan resentment.

I've gotta disagree with you on this one.

The system works flawlessly in the NBA, nobody complains if they get drafted to a team on the other side of the country, getting drafted is an achievement. The teams look after you, they're your employer and they essentially organise your life for you for the first few years after you've been drafted, it'd be a MASSIVE positive for a lot of kids to be drafted, especially the ones coming out of the poor households. They wouldn't have to worry about finding a secondary job to pay the bills whilst they try and peruse their dream of making first grade, or worry about not having a roof over their head during that rough age of 18-21 that a lot of current fringe first graders go through. If for whatever reason it doesn't work out during their 3 year rookie contract (Which every player drafted would receive, and a base salary which scales based on where you were drafted, the higher you're drafted the higher your rookie salary is) and they don't get offered a second contract, tough cookies, move home and get a real job, think of it is a nice 3 year paid vacation to go play footy.

It's not like you'd get drafted, move to Western Sydney and then get told by the team that drafted you, "Hey, you're on your own now, go find a place to live and be at training at 6:30 on Monday morning", which seems to be what a lot of people on here think it's like.

Edit: With all that being said, I don't really want an NRL draft, I think the system is ok at the moment, we just need more policing on the salary cap, make all contracts public. (Like the NBA!)

 

[Nashy]

I've gotta disagree with you on this one.

The system works flawlessly in the NBA, nobody complains if they get drafted to a team on the other side of the country, getting drafted is an achievement. The teams look after you, they're your employer and they essentially organise your life for you for the first few years after you've been drafted, it'd be a MASSIVE positive for a lot of kids to be drafted, especially the ones coming out of the poor households. They wouldn't have to worry about finding a secondary job to pay the bills whilst they try and peruse their dream of making first grade, or worry about not having a roof over their head during that rough age of 18-21 that a lot of current fringe first graders go through. If for whatever reason it doesn't work out during their 3 year rookie contract (Which every player drafted would receive, and a base salary which scales based on where you were drafted, the higher you're drafted the higher your rookie salary is) and they don't get offered a second contract, tough cookies, move home and get a real job, think of it is a nice 3 year paid vacation to go play footy.

It's not like you'd get drafted, move to Western Sydney and then get told by the team that drafted you, "Hey, you're on your own now, go find a place to live and be at training at 6:30 on Monday morning", which seems to be what a lot of people on here think it's like.

Edit: With all that being said, I don't really want an NRL draft, I think the system is ok at the moment, we just need more policing on the salary cap, make all contracts public. (Like the NBA!)

There is a massive issue with people comparing our sport to US sports. Our sport is tiny. Our sport has next to no money. Our sport is full of useless unprofessional clubs. If I was being handed a contract worth hundreds of millions, it changes things slightly too.

 

[1910]

It just wouldn't be a thread about footy without you showing up to an argument without reading mate.

With that, what's your point? It happens in other industries so that make's it completely fair? No.

I did read it, but just so I am sure you’re against a draft because the poor footballers can’t be expected to be moved from home?

I expanded and added other jobs that expect it- I would have thought you’d then back up your idea with yeah but footballers are different and give your reasons why you think they can’t be moved.

Sort of how a conversation goes.

 

[Unbreakable]

There is a massive issue with people comparing our sport to US sports. Our sport is tiny. Our sport has next to no money. Our sport is full of useless unprofessional clubs. If I was being handed a contract worth hundreds of millions, it changes things slightly too.

You don't need hundreds of millions of dollars to survive as an 18 year old playing footy for a living, if you've got a guaranteed roof over your head you could survive off less than $50k a year, unbelievably comfortably. Also, rookie contracts in the NBA are peas comparatively to the contracts you're talking about, 96-98% less than the highest paid players in the league in terms of a yearly salary.

 

[Kimlo]

All I want is for all salaries to be made public.

 

[Nashy]

You don't need hundreds of millions of dollars to survive as an 18 year old playing footy for a living, if you've got a guaranteed roof over your head you could survive off less than $50k a year, unbelievably comfortably. Also, rookie contracts in the NBA are peas comparatively to the contracts you're talking about, 96-98% less than the highest paid players in the league in terms of a yearly salary.

And? Life isn't all about being paid a wage and having a roof. For some it's also about their roots. It's about being home. It's about Mum being a 5 minute drive away. Hell, maybe your favourite bar and best mates are here, there doesn't need to be a reason to want to choose where to live, and I don't think we should be forcing ANYONE to live anywhere.

I imagine the $50k and the houses in Canberra will keep you warm at night, and keep shoes on your feet. But you're still in the absolute shit hole that is Canberra.

I still haven't seen a decent valid reason as to why we even need a draft. The argument comes up from time to time, and it's usually just yank sports fans who think yanks do everything great, and see how successful their sports are, and that's that, it has to be the draft, it will fix everything else.

I did read it, but just so I am sure you’re against a draft because the poor footballers can’t be expected to be moved from home?

I expanded and added other jobs that expect it- I would have thought you’d then back up your idea with yeah but footballers are different and give your reasons why you think they can’t be moved.

Sort of how a conversation goes.

I don't think it makes it anymore fair just because other have to move. Shit argument.

 

[Morkel]

Salaries being made public wouldn't be enough IMO. At the moment at least half of them are reported in the media, and though they may not all be 100% accurate, it gives an idea. There are already players that you'd consider to be on "unders", and the explanation is always that they're taking less to play for X club, out of opportunity or loyalty.

Even if you included their 3rd party deals, it doesn't go far enough. Because it's the stuff off the books that is where the real cheating happens. Teams don't do duplicate books anymore, but they still do free boats, fake jobs for family members through third-party companies, fake work/invoices for works that may or may not have been done, and even the ol' paper bag full of cash.

Without doing a complete and exhaustive audit of every player, their family, including income, expenditure, and compare it to their resulting lifestyle, it's too easy to hide payments.

 

[tommy]

Salaries being made public wouldn't be enough IMO. At the moment at least half of them are reported in the media, and though they may not all be 100% accurate, it gives an idea. There are already players that you'd consider to be on "unders", and the explanation is always that they're taking less to play for X club, out of opportunity or loyalty.

Even if you included their 3rd party deals, it doesn't go far enough. Because it's the stuff off the books that is where the real cheating happens. Teams don't do duplicate books anymore, but they still do free boats, fake jobs for family members through third-party companies, fake work/invoices for works that may or may not have been done, and even the ol' paper bag full of cash.

Without doing a complete and exhaustive audit of every player, their family, including income, expenditure, and compare it to their resulting lifestyle, it's too easy to hide payments.

At the very least it will raise eyebrows when Roos....err, players on 100-200k are turning down offers of 400-500k

 

[Morkel]

At the very least it will raise eyebrows when Roos....err, players on 100-200k are turning down offers of 400-500k

You mean like how our young forward just rejected a $1.2 million offer from the Bulldogs to stay with the Broncos on what I assume would be a far more modest contract?

 

[Kimlo]

Salaries being made public wouldn't be enough IMO. At the moment at least half of them are reported in the media, and though they may not all be 100% accurate, it gives an idea. There are already players that you'd consider to be on "unders", and the explanation is always that they're taking less to play for X club, out of opportunity or loyalty.

Even if you included their 3rd party deals, it doesn't go far enough. Because it's the stuff off the books that is where the real cheating happens. Teams don't do duplicate books anymore, but they still do free boats, fake jobs for family members through third-party companies, fake work/invoices for works that may or may not have been done, and even the ol' paper bag full of cash.

Without doing a complete and exhaustive audit of every player, their family, including income, expenditure, and compare it to their resulting lifestyle, it's too easy to hide payments.

It would be a huge step in the right direction.

You said it yourself, they're reported in the media, no one knows what's bullshit and what's not. Is Jack Bird on 500k, or 1.2M? Having all salaries public cuts out the innuendo and BS. If Cooper Cronk and Tedesco are on 400k each while players like Milford and Ponga are on 1M it would make it a lot easier to tell who's rorting the system. Sure the NRL knows this but they've never found a salary cap rort unless someone gave them a directions chart with a numbered list of offences on a USB stick, they're useless. Having it public means the fans know, the media know for sure and the all of a sudden there's a lot more scrutiny when the Roosters sign the next superstar for a can of coke and a pie.

 

[Unbreakable]

And? Life isn't all about being paid a wage and having a roof. For some it's also about their roots. It's about being home. It's about Mum being a 5 minute drive away. Hell, maybe your favourite bar and best mates are here, there doesn't need to be a reason to want to choose where to live, and I don't think we should be forcing ANYONE to live anywhere.

So essentially your argument against is that you'd prefer to stay close to home, therefore everyone does? I can guarantee a LOT of 18 year olds with no life experience would love to go move to a different state for 3 years, get paid to play footy, meet new people, visit new places, etc, etc.

Seems like a personal preference thing, no? Also, there's nobody forcing players to enter the draft, which you seem to be avoiding. If you don't want to risk being drafted by a team in another state, don't enter the draft. There's alternative ways to get in to the league, fight your way through Queensland Cup / New South Wales Cup like everyone does right now. Having a draft and staying home to fight your way in to your local first grade team aren't mutually exclusive, they can co-exist.

 

[tommy]

You mean like how our young forward just rejected a $1.2 million offer from the Bulldogs to stay with the Broncos on what I assume would be a far more modest contract?

But do we really know that's what the figure is? They love to just make them up, especially when it comes to us. Plus I think we probably have the best record of developing juniors and bringing them into first grade which makes it a little more understandable than a seasoned first grader doing the same.

 

[Nashy]

So essentially your argument against is that you'd prefer to stay close to home, therefore everyone does? I can guarantee a LOT of 18 year olds with no life experience would love to go move to a different state for 3 years, get paid to play footy, meet new people, visit new places, etc, etc.

Seems like a personal preference thing, no? Also, there's nobody forcing players to enter the draft, which you seem to be avoiding. If you don't want to risk being drafted by a team in another state, don't enter the draft. There's alternative ways to get in to the league, fight your way through Queensland Cup / New South Wales Cup like everyone does right now. Having a draft and staying home to fight your way in to your local first grade team aren't mutually exclusive, they can co-exist.

Your second point is the best one going. It's the only one that actually plays to me saying well earlier in the thread that I don't know the ins and outs of the draft.

In regard to the first, of course it's a preference. But once you throw the draft there, it's not a choice anymore. You do as you're told. Shit system.

I still don't see how a draft fixes ANYTHING in the NRL though. No one pro draft has said that yet.

 

[Morkel]

But do we really know that's what the figure is? They love to just make them up, especially when it comes to us. Plus I think we probably have the best record of developing juniors and bringing them into first grade which makes it a little more understandable than a seasoned first grader doing the same.

The point is, as much as I love to sink the boot in to the Roosters, if we're going to vilify them for "cheating the cap" because of the exact same things that our club also claims, we should equally be under suspicion.

Even if we did have every player's salaries known, if a Roosters player is genuinely getting paid less than a rival club offered, they are still no more guilty of cheating the cap than we are, assuming the Bulldogs' offer to Carrigan is genuine.

 

[teampjta]

I like the idea of a salary cap system similar to the NBA, whereby if you exceed the cap you pay a huge luxury tax.

 

[teampjta]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_tax_(sports)

 

[Battler]

Without a cap the most popular clubs in the comp + the rorters (for as long as Politis is around) and maybe the storm (I think they're about to drop off massively in the next few years without Smith, but they seem to have a lot of cash) will be successful which will be good for the game imo. The Dogs, Eels, and maybe Raiders will be powerhouses and the Warriors will be able to maintain consistent success in a market where league is gaining more and more ground.

Financial horror shows like the Titans, Sharks, Manly, etc will fold and we'll get new financially viable clubs in places like Perth. It'd be wonderful for the game long term, but it ought to have happened 20 years ago. I'm not sure if we can go through it now..

It would be a huge step in the right direction.

You said it yourself, they're reported in the media, no one knows what's bullshit and what's not. Is Jack Bird on 500k, or 1.2M? Having all salaries public cuts out the innuendo and BS. If Cooper Cronk and Tedesco are on 400k each while players like Milford and Ponga are on 1M it would make it a lot easier to tell who's rorting the system. Sure the NRL knows this but they've never found a salary cap rort unless someone gave them a directions chart with a numbered list of offences on a USB stick, they're useless. Having it public means the fans know, the media know for sure and the all of a sudden there's a lot more scrutiny when the Roosters sign the next superstar for a can of coke and a pie.

What I also love about the rorters claiming that players take less to play for them is that the club is located in the most expensive place to live in the country.