Stat to Fix: Broncos need to give Oates some help

[Marty Deutschmann]

See, this is a fantastic post.

When people make calls about the Broncos overhauling their attack, attack isn't just the art of scoring tries.

It is offense. The WAY we play.. the structure, decisions made on every and each tackle, not just on the 5th. All of that matters!

If we played a smarter style, we wouldn't be as burnt out after playing the top teams. We'd have the longevity to last the entire year and still be ready to go come September.

The game plan and structure is everything. How which players are utilised, what is their defined roles.

I think seibold will bring this.

 

[Marty Deutschmann]

Soooooo just thought I'd chime in and mention that when they're talking about meters from the outside backs it's the player getting into dummy half or first receiver and taking a hit up

A lot of mentions that there wasn't enough ball going to Jimmy but when you're talking about the back 5 making meters it comes down to the individual seeking out work. I felt that Jimmy was a little lazy in that department last year but I'll put that down to his Achilles injury because in 2017 he was a decent meter eater and really proved how strong of a runner he is.

The comparisons to last year's back 5 is like claiming Vidot is a beast because he made 150m a game, but would you want Vidot over Isaako or Jimmy...

The game plan was clear:
1st tackle: kick return to whoever
2nd tackle: Oates (whilst the forwards got back)
3rd tackle: forward (if they got back) or whichever outside back was nearby
4th: forward
5th: forward or spread it
6th: kick it

The only constant was Oates having a hit up on either 2nd or 3rd... we didn't play like the roosters who relied on dummy half runs from physical outside backs. Instead we relied on our physical forward pack.

Hard for outside backs to make meters when they're not actually required to in the game plan

See, this is a fantastic post.

When people make calls about the Broncos overhauling their attack, attack isn't just the art of scoring tries.

It is offense. The WAY we play.. the structure, decisions made on every and each tackle, not just on the 5th. All of that matters!

If we played a smarter style, we wouldn't be as burnt out after playing the top teams. We'd have the longevity to last the entire year and still be ready to go come September.

The game plan and structure is everything. How which players are utilised, what is their defined roles.

I think seibold will bring this.

I didn't properly quote the original post.
So here it is

 

[Sproj]

I still think Roberts should be fullback

 

[Marty Deutschmann]

I still think Roberts should be fullback

[emoji23]
He's certainly got the prowess for kick returns. Boyd fullback in attack

 

[Mitch06]

[emoji23]
He's certainly got the prowess for kick returns. Boyd fullback in attack

Not the worst idea

 

[Morepudding]

I personally think fullback is the most important position in the game at the moment. If you look at teams who have done well recently / won comps it has been teams who have had a really strong fullback. So many plays rely on the fullback either as a decoy runner, a try scorer, or to throw the last pass. If you look at 2018, Tedesco was clearly the standout fullback in the comp and the roosters won. The year before Billy Slater, goes without saying. 2016 Barba was one of the form players of the comp for the back end of the season. 2015 was a bit of an anomaly. 2014 Greg Inglis. 2013 Anthony Minichello / RTS.

Obviously all these grand final winning teams had strong teams across the park, but all of them had a fullback who was considered to be the top 2-3 in their position that year. This is something we simply don't have with Boyd and unless he comes back and has a great start to 2019, he needs to be moved to centre or wing asap, because if his form from 2018 continues we have no chance of winning the comp.

 

[lynx000]

I personally think fullback is the most important position in the game at the moment. If you look at teams who have done well recently / won comps it has been teams who have had a really strong fullback. So many plays rely on the fullback either as a decoy runner, a try scorer, or to throw the last pass. If you look at 2018, Tedesco was clearly the standout fullback in the comp and the roosters won. The year before Billy Slater, goes without saying. 2016 Barba was one of the form players of the comp for the back end of the season. 2015 was a bit of an anomaly. 2014 Greg Inglis. 2013 Anthony Minichello / RTS.

Obviously all these grand final winning teams had strong teams across the park, but all of them had a fullback who was considered to be the top 2-3 in their position that year. This is something we simply don't have with Boyd and unless he comes back and has a great start to 2019, he needs to be moved to centre or wing asap, because if his form from 2018 continues we have no chance of winning the comp.

The problem I have with your proposal is that it is fine to say move Boyd, but you only do that if to do so is to strengthen the team. That is, the person that you choose to replace him with offers more and will do a better job. Unfortunately, the most viable option Isaako, does not do that. He is offensively limited, does not have Boyd's play making skill or ability to read the play. Ergo, you leave Boyd where he is.

 

[Morepudding]

The problem I have with your proposal is that it is fine to say move Boyd, but you only do that if to do so is to strengthen the team. That is, the person that you choose to replace him with offers more and will do a better job. Unfortunately, the most viable option Isaako, does not do that. He is offensively limited, does not have Boyd's play making skill or ability to read the play. Ergo, you leave Boyd where he is.

You say this, but I feel Isaako has potential to offer just as much as Boyd in this department, and more in others. Boyd provided 8 try assists and only 5 tries in 2018 from 25 games. He hardly set the world alight with his play making ability. Similarly, he was notoriously poor with kick returns, and defusing grubbers close to the line. Our biggest win of the season came with Isaako at fullback, this isn't to say he was the primary cause for this or anything, but it does show that we can score points with him at fullback.

The fact that Seibold played Alex Johnston at fullback over Greg Inglis also indicates he isn't afraid to play a running fullback. Honestly if Boyd played in 2019 like he did in 2018 I think Seibold would drop him. He simply didn't deserve to be on the team. Whether he was injured or not, he should not have been there and some of his performances were completely abysmal on both performance and effort. That isn't something that is acceptable by a 30 year old international who is also the captain.

 

[Kyall]

The problem I have with your proposal is that it is fine to say move Boyd, but you only do that if to do so is to strengthen the team. That is, the person that you choose to replace him with offers more and will do a better job. Unfortunately, the most viable option Isaako, does not do that. He is offensively limited, does not have Boyd's play making skill or ability to read the play. Ergo, you leave Boyd where he is.

Tedesco had absolutely no ball playing in him but look how well he finished off when he got training and a chance at the Roosters.

 

[Morepudding]

Tedesco had absolutely no ball playing in him but look how well he finished off when he got training and a chance at the Roosters.

Great example. His passing improved a lot as the season went on. I honestly feel that Isaako could be fantastic at fullback given some time in the position. He has a moderate kicking game too based on his dropkick ability and that the club use him for touch finders.

 

[Cult]

You say this, but I feel Isaako has potential to offer just as much as Boyd in this department, and more in others. Boyd provided 8 try assists and only 5 tries in 2018 from 25 games. He hardly set the world alight with his play making ability. Similarly, he was notoriously poor with kick returns, and defusing grubbers close to the line. Our biggest win of the season came with Isaako at fullback, this isn't to say he was the primary cause for this or anything, but it does show that we can score points with him at fullback.

The fact that Seibold played Alex Johnston at fullback over Greg Inglis also indicates he isn't afraid to play a running fullback. Honestly if Boyd played in 2019 like he did in 2018 I think Seibold would drop him. He simply didn't deserve to be on the team. Whether he was injured or not, he should not have been there and some of his performances were completely abysmal on both performance and effort. That isn't something that is acceptable by a 30 year old international who is also the captain.

He was willing to do that in his first year as a coach. Hopefully he learns from his mistakes

 

[Wolfie]

People are dreaming if they think Issako will be a top fullback. At the moment, he has way too much missing from his game. He is a strong runner who can kick goals, that's about it. If we switched him to fullback I don't think the bloke would be any different to the fullback he was playing for Souths. I'll be interested to see though in the trials what he has had added to his game under Seibold.

 

[WASSHHH]

People are dreaming if they think Issako will be a top fullback. At the moment, he has way too much missing from his game. He is a strong runner who can kick goals, that's about it. If we switched him to fullback I don't think the bloke would be any different to the fullback he was playing for Souths. I'll be interested to see though in the trials what he has had added to his game under Seibold.

What you’ve described is pretty much a young Tedesco, RTS or even Slater - but none of them kick goals.

It’s foolhardy to expect a green fullback to come in with the complete repertoire of skills like Lockyer or Hunt. They were the exceptions, not the rule.

Pretty much every other recent fullback, including Slater, has had to develop all the other skills outside of being a dangerous runner over the course of their career.

 

[Wolfie]

What you’ve described is pretty much a young Tedesco, RTS or even Slater - but none of them kick goals.

It’s foolhardy to expect a green fullback to come in with the complete repertoire of skills like Lockyer or Hunt. They were the exceptions, not the rule.

Pretty much every other recent fullback, including Slater, has had to develop all the other skills outside of being a dangerous runner over the course of their career.

Issako had added nothing new to his game from when I first saw him playing at South's. I'd also disagree about Slater and RTS. They had a bit more ball playing ability from the start than Issako does.

 

[WASSHHH]

Issako had added nothing new to his game from when I first saw him playing at South's. I'd also disagree about Slater and RTS. They had a bit more ball playing ability from the start than Issako does.

I’d argue it’s nigh on impossible to say Isaako has added nothing new to his game since his ISC days when, for all but a handful of games, his entire NRL career has been spent on the wing.

Not many wingers get the opportunity to demonstrate anything outside of catching bombs, diffusing grubbers, running, tackling (which they do bugger all of) and the occasional last ditch kick.

We really won’t see what he is capable of, or what skills he has or hasn’t added, until we see him given a proper shot at the back.

I may also concede to your comments on RTS as I haven’t followed his career closely. But when Slater was in his first season of NRL, he was a good ball runner and support player, nothing more. It took him a long time to develop the myriad of skills he finished his career with.

 

[Porthoz]

What you’ve described is pretty much a young Tedesco, RTS or even Slater - but none of them kick goals.

It’s foolhardy to expect a green fullback to come in with the complete repertoire of skills like Lockyer or Hunt. They were the exceptions, not the rule.

Pretty much every other recent fullback, including Slater, has had to develop all the other skills outside of being a dangerous runner over the course of their career.

I'm not going to argue the ball playing ability, although I think both Slater and RTS had more to start with, but please... you cannot compare any of those players best feature (running game) to Isaako's, who is a strong runner, but really doesn't compare to any of those guys imo.
He's a great winger and a fantastic GK, but I'm really not sure he'll ever be more than that...

 

[Wolfie]

I’d argue it’s nigh on impossible to say Isaako has added nothing new to his game since his ISC days when, for all but a handful of games, his entire NRL career has been spent on the wing.

Not many wingers get the opportunity to demonstrate anything outside of catching bombs, diffusing grubbers, running, tackling (which they do bugger all of) and the occasional last ditch kick.

We really won’t see what he is capable of, or what skills he has or hasn’t added, until we see him given a proper shot at the back.

I may also concede to your comments on RTS as I haven’t followed his career closely. But when Slater was in his first season of NRL, he was a good ball runner and support player, nothing more. It took him a long time to develop the myriad of skills he finished his career with.

In terms of his fullback play, I don't see a thing he has added, but like I said, will be interest g to see him under Seibold. He played, fullback for us like he did for Souths though. His game is perfectly suited to where he is now imo.

 

[WASSHHH]

I'm not going to argue the ball playing ability, although I think both Slater and RTS had more to start with, but please... you cannot compare any of those players best feature (running game) to Isaako's, who is a strong runner, but really doesn't compare to any of those guys imo.
He's a great winger and a fantastic GK, but I'm really not sure he'll ever be more than that...

What I am saying is that it’s far too early to claim that Isaako won’t make it as a fullback in the NRL.

I am substantiating that by using those players development as examples of how players develop skills over time that they previously didn’t have.

First year Slater and final year Slater were worlds apart, particularly in his consistency.

It is literally impossible to know how good of an NRL fullback Isaako will be without seeing him play the position for more than a handful of games.

And as an aside; Cooper Cronk’s ankles would argue that Isaako has a pretty handy step on him and not just a power running game.