State of Origin U20s

[Unbreakable]

Not at all, we have never won the 20's Origin yet have won Origin.

QAS will sort it out.

?..

Napa, Milford & Oates are the only players who've played U20 Origin that have played for QLD, over the 5 years that it's been running. Napa & Milford are both winless at Origin level. How can you possibly justify your statement lol.

Meanwhile NSW have brought in Cordner, Klemmer, Trbojevic, Bird, Walker, a few other fringe Origin players and a couple of guys who've played for Australia.

Comparatively origin results over the last 5 years would be virtually unaffected by U20's, the more important comparison will be how we fair over the next 5 years now that all of these unsuccessful QLD U20's players are entering their "peak" years.

 

[1910]

?..

Napa, Milford & Oates are the only players who've played U20 Origin that have played for QLD, over the 5 years that it's been running. Napa & Milford are both winless at Origin level. How can you possibly justify your statement lol.

Meanwhile NSW have brought in Cordner, Klemmer, Trbojevic, Bird, Walker, a few other fringe Origin players and a couple of guys who've played for Australia.

Comparatively origin results over the last 5 years would be virtually unaffected by U20's, the more important comparison will be how we fair over the next 5 years now that all of these unsuccessful QLD U20's players are entering their "peak" years.

Thought the point was obvious, we have never won the 20's Origin and have had success in Origin. The QAS has produced much better results. Best being in 2014 when 18/22 came through.

Success or failure in 20's doesn't predict long term Origin future as you claimed. How many series have New South Wales won over the last five years again?

 

[Unbreakable]

Thought the point was obvious, we have never won the 20's Origin and have had success in Origin. The QAS has produced much better results. Best being in 2014 when 18/22 came through.

Success or failure in 20's doesn't predict long term Origin future as you claimed. How many series have New South Wales won over the last five years again?

How can you say without doubt that success or failure in the 20's doesn't predict long term Origin future? We're only just entering the point in time when we'll be able to definitively find out..

The last 5 years isn't long-term, the U20's was introduced 5 years ago, NSW has been successful in the U20's 5 years in a row, that means they're likely going to start reaping the benefits of that prolonged juniors success now, and over the next 5 years as all of those players enter their primes.

This year is the first year where NSW just flat out has far better players and far more depth than us in all positions, and the fact that they've dominated the U20's for the last 5 years is a further indicator that we're in for a long, long 5-6 years at state level.

 

[1910]

How can you say without doubt that success or failure in the 20's doesn't predict long term Origin future? We're only just entering the point in time when we'll be able to definitively find out..

The last 5 years isn't long-term, the U20's was introduced 5 years ago, NSW has been successful in the U20's 5 years in a row, that means they're likely going to start reaping the benefits of that prolonged juniors success now, and over the next 5 years as all of those players enter their primes.

This year is the first year where NSW just flat out has far better players and far more depth than us in all positions, and the fact that they've dominated the U20's for the last 5 years is a further indicator that we're in for a long, long 5-6 years at state level.

I think success in under age teams doesn't mean success in Origin because that is what has always happened. Go back and look at Under 17 and Under 19 results and tell me you can see a pattern? It's all over the shop with success and failures.

We switched to Under 16, 18 and 20's a few years ago and the same thing is happening. You get two or three players play Origin, probably five or six play NRL.

Queensland lost the first four Under 18 games, not winning until 2012. But they won Origin before and after that. But out of those 18's side have come Papalli, McGuire, Milford, Morgan, O'Neill and Gagai.

The result is secondary to what you're producing. Mind you it's nice if Queensland win everything.

New South Wales might well win a few series and have a great era but I won't be crediting a week long 20's camp.

As I said the QAS system is year long involvement and continual development of players. Not just week long camp and slap on the back see ya later.

Queensland have had great success from it. The 2001 team produced Smith, Thurston, Shillington and Hannant. Four Origin players from 18/19's.

You're completely ignoring every other pathway and just focusing on one by looking at just 20's results. The QAS 20's squad last year had Hess included- you now want him in Origin.

 

[1910]

Queensland's success has also meant not having to blood Under 20's guys. Holmes was fullback in 2014 and Hess played in 2015. They could both easily play soon.

 

[Unbreakable]

New South Wales might well win a few series and have a great era but I won't be crediting a week long 20's camp.

Nobody is.. We're simply saying that they've clearly proven over the last 5 years that they have far superior juniors coming through comparatively to Queensland.

It's almost inevitable at this point that they have a run similar to the one Queensland just had, not because they have a better U20 Origin camp, but because they have better talent and more depth.

Only scenario we stand a chance a few years from now is if guys like Taylor, Milford & Munster turn in to the next Cronk, Thurston & Slater.

 

[NYCDB]

U19 Origin existed for like 10 years before it changed to U20 Origin and NSW regularly won that but they didn't go on some 10 year run. I don't have the results but I'd be very surprised if Smith/JT/etc ever beat NSW at U17/U19 level. They were probably getting outplayed by guys like Russell Aitken.

They've always had far superior "juniors". They've been beating us regularly in junior Origin (17/19s until 2008) since forever. Its not like JT/Smith/Slater and co were winning junior Origins for us and then transitioned to the senior level.

In 2004, the Blues were in the middle of three straight Origin series wins. NSW U19 won 33-6. Guys like Cameron Phelps, Keith Galloway and Feleti Mateo were dominating. But who's juniors actually kicked on and significantly contributed at senior level? NSW - Brett Stewart, Ben Creagh, Todd Carney, Galloway v Qld - Sam Thaiday, Neville Costigan, Matt Scott, Gavin Cooper (Tom Learoyd-Lahrs actually played for Qld in that game lol). Im pretty sure Blues fans would trade all of those players for the Origin careers Thaiday and Scott have had.

NSW have great talent and depth (which they always had) and they may win 2 or 3 series in a row (they won't go on a run like we just did).

The U19/U20 Origin has been around long enough to show that it is not a "further indicator that we're in for a long, long 5-6 years at state level."

 

[Big Pete]

I was going to do a big write up with all the different teams and results from the past 16 years (5 years before the Maroon's dynasty) but thought better of it because eligibility rules changed year to year.

But here's the scores for those curious

Under 19s
2001: Queensland 28 def. NSW 14
2002: NSW 28 def. Queensland 4*
2003: Queensland 20 def. NSW 4
2004: NSW 33 def. Queensland 6
2005: Queensland 42 def. NSW 12
2006: NSW 22 def Queensland 10
2007: NSW 14 def Queensland 10
*Denotes different eligibility criteria. Thurston, Tonga & Ash Graham played for NSW.

Under 18s
2008: NSW 34 def Queensland 10
2009: NSW 24 def Queensland 6
2010: NSW 22 def. Queensland 18
2011: NSW 16 def Queensland 6

Then they introduced the Under 20s Origin clash which NSW has dominated since it's inception.

 

[1910]

I was going to do a big write up with all the different teams and results from the past 16 years (5 years before the Maroon's dynasty) but thought better of it because eligibility rules changed year to year.

But here's the scores for those curious

Under 19s
2001: Queensland 28 def. NSW 14
2002: NSW 28 def. Queensland 4*
2003: Queensland 20 def. NSW 4
2004: NSW 33 def. Queensland 6
2005: Queensland 42 def. NSW 12
2006: NSW 22 def Queensland 10
2007: NSW 14 def Queensland 10
*Denotes different eligibility criteria. Thurston, Tonga & Ash Graham played for NSW.

Under 18s
2008: NSW 34 def Queensland 10
2009: NSW 24 def Queensland 6
2010: NSW 22 def. Queensland 18
2011: NSW 16 def Queensland 6

Then they introduced the Under 20s Origin clash which NSW has dominated since it's inception.

I think success in under age teams doesn't mean success in Origin because that is what has always happened. Go back and look at Under 17 and Under 19 results and tell me you can see a pattern? It's all over the shop with success and failures.

Yeah the scores backed up what I was saying I just couldn't be bothered I knew the outcome was going to be that Under 20's is rad and if you are a success at 20's you're set for life.

 

[1910]

Smith didn't even make the Queensland Under 17- Edwards didn't pick him. He was playing six then. He made Under 19's at 18 and 19 and two Junior Roo years in a row after that call.

 

[NYCDB]

I was going to do a big write up with all the different teams and results from the past 16 years (5 years before the Maroon's dynasty) but thought better of it because eligibility rules changed year to year.

Cheers for those results, Pete. You wouldn't happen to have some of those team lists for pre-08 junior Origins would you? I've seen some for one or two years. I'd love to add them to the site.

 

[Big Pete]

Cheers for those results, Pete. You wouldn't happen to have some of those team lists for pre-08 junior Origins would you? I've seen some for one or two years. I'd love to add them to the site.

I do mate, I'll PM all the details I have sometime this weekend.

 

[1910]

This year is the first year where NSW just flat out has far better players and far more depth than us in all positions, and the fact that they've dominated the U20's for the last 5 years is a further indicator that we're in for a long, long 5-6 years at state level.

It was a long domination.

Eight debutants and 28 players used- most ever, different halves each games- won despite not winning 20's and having no depth and them having all the better players.

 

[Unbreakable]

It was a long domination.

Eight debutants and 28 players used- most ever, different halves each games- won despite not winning 20's and having no depth and them having all the better players.

"It was a long domination." NSW won the U20's again you potato, they're still dominating it..

Nobody said NSW was going to go on a run whilst we still had the big 4, the issue that was being discussed was what's coming through after they're gone a year or two from now. I'm still quite comfortable in my view that NSW had a far more skilled and deeper squad than us this year, we won because Laurie was too stubborn and afraid to make the necessary adjustments after the tight loss in Game 2. And because we have 4 of the greatest players to ever play the game. It was admirable of Laurie to try and replicate the loyalty system that we created, but it doesn't work when you have pea hearts like Hayne, Dugan & Pearce in your team.

I'm still dreading 2019 onwards, despite the added confidence I gained from the debuts of guys like Munster, Milford & Napa. The penny will drop at some point over the next 24 months when NSW realise nearly everyone from our era of dominance is retired or fading away.

 

[1910]

"It was a long domination." NSW won the U20's again you potato, they're still dominating it..

Nobody said NSW was going to go on a run whilst we still had the big 4, the issue that was being discussed was what's coming through after they're gone a year or two from now. I'm still quite comfortable in my view that NSW had a far more skilled and deeper squad than us this year, we won because Laurie was too stubborn and afraid to make the necessary adjustments after the tight loss in Game 2. And because we have 4 of the greatest players to ever play the game. It was admirable of Laurie to try and replicate the loyalty system that we created, but it doesn't work when you have pea hearts like Hayne, Dugan & Pearce in your team.

I'm still dreading 2019 onwards, despite the added confidence I gained from the debuts of guys like Munster, Milford & Napa. The penny will drop at some point over the next 24 months when NSW realise nearly everyone from our era of dominance is retired or fading away.

Sorry I thought when you said this year was the start of a long long five years you meant 2017 not two years time.

 

[Unbreakable]

Sorry I thought when you said this year was the start of a long long five years you meant 2017 not two years time.

Once again, I never said "this year", if you bothered to read the post directly after the one you quoted, I specifically say "Only scenario we stand a chance a few years from now is if guys like Taylor, Milford & Munster turn in to the next Cronk, Thurston & Slater."

 

[NYCDB]

NSW won the U20's again you potato, they're still dominating it..

Oh no.

U20 Origin wins:
Coen Hess - none
Valentine Holmes - none
Anthony Milford - none
Cameron Munster - none
Dylan Napa - none
Corey Oates - none

Actual Origin series wins:
Coen Hess - 1
Valentine Holmes - 1
Anthony Milford - 1
Cameron Munster - 1
Dylan Napa - 1
Corey Oates - 2

Queensland's U20 side has produced more Origin players than NSW has too (6 to 5). It's almost as if the U20 Origin result is completely meaningless when it comes to Senior Origin. Our U18s (who have won twice in 10 years) have produced more Origin players than NSW (9 to 7).

We have great players coming through. Who cares if they lose a one-off game every year. Hell, it'd probably add fire to when they get to Senior Origin, losing to NSW all through the juniors...

Once again, I never said "this year", if you bothered to read the post directly after the one you quoted, I specifically say "Only scenario we stand a chance a few years from now is if guys like Taylor, Milford & Munster turn in to the next Cronk, Thurston & Slater."

You must think we stand a big chance then, because those half options (plus guys like DCE and Morgan) are much better than what NSW has. NSW don't have transcendent talent like our "Big 4" coming through. Our players are closer to that than guys like Mitchell Moses, Luke Brooks, Nathan Cleary and Brock Lamb.

 

[1910]

Once again, I never said "this year", if you bothered to read the post directly after the one you quoted, I specifically say "Only scenario we stand a chance a few years from now is if guys like Taylor, Milford & Munster turn in to the next Cronk, Thurston & Slater."

This year is the first year where NSW just flat out has far better players and far more depth than us in all positions, and the fact that they've dominated the U20's for the last 5 years is a further indicator that we're in for a long, long 5-6 years at state level.[/QUOTE]