Te Maire Martin

[mitch222]

Depends on the Roosters and whether they want to punt Keary for him at one stage.

I think he will stay a one club player unless they shaft his dad big time. He has alot of mates he grew up with playing at the club so money wouldnt be the biggest motivator to make him leave as penrith would be rolling out the big guns to match what ever comes his way

 

[WASSHHH]

JT was an absolute competitor and a very different player to Locky. They were both clutch players in their own different ways. In Origin i think they both showed that for sure.

I think people sometimes forget how involved and competitive Lockyer was because Thurston is a more recent example.

In the final few plays that won the 2004 Kangaroo series I’m talking about, Lockyer handled it so many times, it was almost as if there was three of him on the field. It was other worldly. But the truth of it was, he’d been doing that the whole series.

Then there was the 2006 origin series, where he just so happened to be in the right place when someone needed to be. But then again, he always was.

I also think of the game down in Melbourne when the Broncos were getting pumped, it was 50-nil (or thereabouts) and Lockyer set up a try. The game was over at halftime and only got worse thereafter, but he just never stopped trying.

I’m not saying Thurston wasn’t fantastic, he absolutely was. And there is so little in it, but if I had to choose one, it’s Lockyer. I do think it is hard to compare them because they were at different stages of their careers when they played together, so there is sometimes a bit of recency bias for Thurston. But there was nothing during his career that Thurston could do that Lockyer hadn’t done during his career, either at fullback or six (except maybe goal kicking).

Lockyer also never declined or never became less effective, even after playing more club games, Origins and test matches than anyone else (obviously Smith has since passed him at club and Origin level).

That to me says that his effect on games was at such a high level, and for such a long time, that he’s the best player I’ve ever seen for involvement and ability to deliver when it mattered.

As much as I hate to say it, Smith is the only other player that can be in the conversation when all those things are considered.

 

[BroncsFan]

This is exactly why JT failed in his final year - the entire team had no plan and just waited for JT to pull a rabbit out of the hat but by that time. he didn't have it in him.

When I was watching the cows in JT's last year I got the sense that he was trying to take a back seat and let Morgan run the show, because of his ridiculous ending to 2017 and knowing that he would have to be the man moving forward.

It was like JT was happy to let their new brigade take the reins and he would chime in if they needed him to.

However the team just did nothing when JT was taking a backseat and eventually he would have to get heavily involved to try and get them back in it.

I'm not sure if it was coaching and a lack of clarity or transparency regarding the team roles, but if Morgan was intended to be the primary playmaker that year then it failed miserably.

 

[Big Pete]

I would have Wighton ahead of Morgan as he carries more responsibility in that raiders team and in my eyes he has had longer periods of sustained form, whereas Morgan had the backend of 2017 and whichever year he played fullback.

I would consider Moses a halfback as well... and his role is more about game management.

Other than that it's probably about right you'd think... those players had periods where they were on another level but they couldn't sustain it and their floor was much lower than the height they reach at their peak

I had a similar thought about Moses but threw him in since when he was with the Tigers in 2015-17 he was a five-eighth. Plus Morgan played a similar role in the back-end of 2017.

I could live with throwing Wighton in that debatable pile. My impression of Wighton is that he was comfortably a level below Morgan until 2019-20 but I don't think he's quite reached the heights of Morgan who won a premiership, won a World Cup and was the more skillful player, particularly in 2016-17. Wighton's big claim to fame is that he won a Dally M, won a Clive Churchill and finished runners up.

I think I did Morgan a disservice by describing him as a clutch running five-eighth. That's fair in 2015 where he scored 15 tries and set up 12, but he managed to set up both 20+ tries in consecutive years in 2016 and 2017. Wighton barely managed to hit double digits and that was last year where he finished equal 29th. Morgan finished 1st in 2017 and 5th in 2016 to put those numbers into better context.

But hey I did include Cody Walker and the more I think about that selection the more it could be down to recency bias.

 

[Jason Simmons]

I think he was pretty decent tbh until those shoulder and concussion issues kicked in with him. Once he had those string of concussions he was never the same player. He seemed really fearful of contact and thats no good for a player in this game. He was a good 14 for QLD, never thought he had the game though to be a dominant half though.

I think he suffered a bit because he was such a versatile player. He became a Mr Fixit for Qld and then the Cows used him at fullback, centre, 5/8 and halfback…

If he’d been able to focus solely on one position, I think probably no.6 suited him best, he would have been viewed in a better light.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

Depends on the Roosters and whether they want to punt Keary for him at one stage.

I can see the headline now...

panthers win 4 premierships out of the next 5, he then leaves panthers for the Roosters, but not for the money "it's for the culture, history and premiership winning capabilities of the greatly supported roosters club"

 

[easybreezy]

not sure why, but Im pretty excited for this pick up. Ive got Kelly at first dibs on 5/8, but I like Te Maire for similar reasons...I think they both compliment ARey far more than Gamble or Walters (Billy or Kevin)

 

[john1420]

I think people sometimes forget how involved and competitive Lockyer was because Thurston is a more recent example.

In the final few plays that won the 2004 Kangaroo series I’m talking about, Lockyer handled it so many times, it was almost as if there was three of him on the field. It was other worldly. But the truth of it was, he’d been doing that the whole series.

Then there was the 2006 origin series, where he just so happened to be in the right place when someone needed to be. But then again, he always was.

I also think of the game down in Melbourne when the Broncos were getting pumped, it was 50-nil (or thereabouts) and Lockyer set up a try. The game was over at halftime and only got worse thereafter, but he just never stopped trying.

I’m not saying Thurston wasn’t fantastic, he absolutely was. And there is so little in it, but if I had to choose one, it’s Lockyer. I do think it is hard to compare them because they were at different stages of their careers when they played together, so there is sometimes a bit of recency bias for Thurston. But there was nothing during his career that Thurston could do that Lockyer hadn’t done during his career, either at fullback or six (except maybe goal kicking).

Lockyer also never declined or never became less effective, even after playing more club games, Origins and test matches than anyone else (obviously Smith has since passed him at club and Origin level).

That to me says that his effect on games was at such a high level, and for such a long time, that he’s the best player I’ve ever seen for involvement and ability to deliver when it mattered.

As much as I hate to say it, Smith is the only other player that can be in the conversation when all those things are considered.

I'm with you, there's not much in it, and I do think there's some recency bias for Thurston.
For me Locky is ahead of everyone, by virtue of the fact he won the Golden Boot in 2 different positions.
Of course we can argue about how much weight that holds, but for me when you can't split Thurston/Locky/Smith because they are all ridiculously brilliant, that's the thing that separates Locky from the rest.

 

[Sproj]

I'm with you, there's not much in it, and I do think there's some recency bias for Thurston.
For me Locky is ahead of everyone, by virtue of the fact he won the Golden Boot in 2 different positions.
Of course we can argue about how much weight that holds, but for me when you can't split Thurston/Locky/Smith because they are all ridiculously brilliant, that's the thing that separates Locky from the rest.

It’s all subjective and that’s fine. In my opinion, as much as it sucks he screwed our team over so many times, Smith is a comfortable number 1. Lockyer is close but No one beats Smith.

 

[Jedhead]

Although he is not mentioned as much, I think Alfie provided me with the most enduring memories of the early Broncos. I mean the bastards had to change the rules to nullify the wee man's genius.

IN terms of natural ability I think Alf had it all. If druggy Johns is an immortal then Alf must rate amongst the Gods.

 

[Wolfie]

I think people sometimes forget how involved and competitive Lockyer was because Thurston is a more recent example.

In the final few plays that won the 2004 Kangaroo series I’m talking about, Lockyer handled it so many times, it was almost as if there was three of him on the field. It was other worldly. But the truth of it was, he’d been doing that the whole series.

Then there was the 2006 origin series, where he just so happened to be in the right place when someone needed to be. But then again, he always was.

I also think of the game down in Melbourne when the Broncos were getting pumped, it was 50-nil (or thereabouts) and Lockyer set up a try. The game was over at halftime and only got worse thereafter, but he just never stopped trying.

I’m not saying Thurston wasn’t fantastic, he absolutely was. And there is so little in it, but if I had to choose one, it’s Lockyer. I do think it is hard to compare them because they were at different stages of their careers when they played together, so there is sometimes a bit of recency bias for Thurston. But there was nothing during his career that Thurston could do that Lockyer hadn’t done during his career, either at fullback or six (except maybe goal kicking).

Lockyer also never declined or never became less effective, even after playing more club games, Origins and test matches than anyone else (obviously Smith has since passed him at club and Origin level).

That to me says that his effect on games was at such a high level, and for such a long time, that he’s the best player I’ve ever seen for involvement and ability to deliver when it mattered.

As much as I hate to say it, Smith is the only other player that can be in the conversation when all those things are considered.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but Smith imo was better than Locky. Not in terms of natural football skills, but as an all round player, his captaincy and influence plus his ability to play at the very top level until the age he did makes him the GOAT imo.

You are right, there isnt a lot though between Locky and JT. I think Locky was a far more controlled player than JT. His kicking game and passing was better than JT, but i dont think over 80 mins Locky was as involved as JT. Locky picked his moments superbly and his timing of when he should chime in was impeccable.

 

[Scorchie]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but Smith imo was better than Locky. Not in terms of natural football skills, but as an all round player, his captaincy and influence plus his ability to play at the very top level until the age he did makes him the GOAT imo.

You are right, there isnt a lot though between Locky and JT. I think Locky was a far more controlled player than JT. His kicking game and passing was better than JT, but i dont think over 80 mins Locky was as involved as JT. Locky picked his moments superbly and his timing of when he should chime in was impeccable.

Sorry mate, Smith cheated. If the game is serious; they will delay entry of any 2007-2012-era Storm player for 10+ years.

The same as Joey shouldn’t have been elevated when he was either.

If they were both in the Olympics, they would’ve lost their medals.

 

[Wolfie]

Sorry mate, Smith cheated. If the game is serious; they will delay entry of any 2007-2012-era Storm player for 10+ years.

The same as Joey shouldn’t have been elevated when he was either.

If they were both in the Olympics, they would’ve lost their medals.

How did Smith cheat? I know people with their anti Melbourne bias like to believe the players knew about the elaborate scheme to cheat the salary cap, but i doubt they did at all. Players dont know all the ins and outs of everything of every other contract at a football club, they only care about what they get. And i strongly doubt the Storm went around telling all the players they were planning to cheat the cap.

 

[Wolfie]

So did Locky. But that’s a can of worms I’m not allowed to open.

If he was doing some of the things now he was doing in the early 2000's i think he might have found himself in a bit of trouble.

 

[theshed]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but Smith imo was better than Locky. Not in terms of natural football skills, but as an all round player, his captaincy and influence plus his ability to play at the very top level until the age he did makes him the GOAT imo.

You are right, there isnt a lot though between Locky and JT. I think Locky was a far more controlled player than JT. His kicking game and passing was better than JT, but i dont think over 80 mins Locky was as involved as JT. Locky picked his moments superbly and his timing of when he should chime in was impeccable.

Unpopular because people don’t like Smith but it’s the correct opinion.

Thurston and Johns are comparable in style with Johns apparently being the better.

Smith and Lockyer were similar players, and though Lockyer was more athletically gifted and the 2 played different positions I think the attributes that made them great are very similar. If Smith retired before he broke every record you’d say Lockyer was the better player but a big part of Lockyer’s greatness was his consistency over such an unimaginable sized body of work - and Smith would go on to blow him out of the water in that regard. It’s close but Smith was just too good for too long.

 

[WASSHHH]

How did Smith cheat? I know people with their anti Melbourne bias like to believe the players knew about the elaborate scheme to cheat the salary cap, but i doubt they did at all. Players dont know all the ins and outs of everything of every other contract at a football club, they only care about what they get. And i strongly doubt the Storm went around telling all the players they were planning to cheat the cap.

It’s the off-season, so I don’t think it’s necessarily the worst thing in the world to go down this rabbit-hole again.

Smith is a lot of things, but I don’t believe stupid is one of them.

I am pretty confident he would have at least thought something was off when he was asked to sign two contracts for the same term with different values.

That aside, there is also the blatant tactical cheating (e.g. holding players in scrums for Slater to run through where the defence should have been) and the bordering on criminal, mutilating techniques the team employed, which Smith was a chief culprit of.

Sure, the tactics and techniques may not have been strictly cheating, but they were absolutely against the spirit of the game (and have subsequently been outlawed), with the Storm and Smith gaining huge success off the back of them.

So it’s fair to say I do have a bias against him. I guess it comes from (my perception of him at least) the bloke having a used car salesman win-at-any-cost approach that never sat well with me, which included when he was playing for QLD and Australia. I genuinely found it hard to support him and honestly never wanted him at the Broncos, so I was (and still am despite our results of late) happy that never eventuated.

I just think the great players rely on their ability and skill to win games, not manipulating the referees and mutilating the opposition.

 

[Wolfie]

It’s the off-season, so I don’t think it’s necessarily the worst thing in the world to go down this rabbit-hole again.

Smith is a lot of things, but I don’t believe stupid is one of them.

I am pretty confident he would have at least thought something was off when he was asked to sign two contracts for the same term with different values.

That aside, there is also the blatant tactical cheating (e.g. holding players in scrums for Slater to run through where the defence should have been) and the bordering on criminal, mutilating techniques the team employed, which Smith was a chief culprit of.

Sure, the tactics and techniques may not have been strictly cheating, but they were absolutely against the spirit of the game (and have subsequently been outlawed), with the Storm and Smith gaining huge success off the back of them.

So it’s fair to say I do have a bias against him. I guess it comes from (my perception of him at least) the bloke having a used car salesman win-at-any-cost approach that never sat well with me, which included when he was playing for QLD and Australia. I genuinely found it hard to support him and honestly never wanted him at the Broncos, so I was (and still am despite our results of late) happy that never eventuated.

I just think the great players rely on their ability and skill to win games, not manipulating the referees and mutilating the opposition.

Players signing 2 contracts from the players i know isnt anything unusual. Most players sign an agreement, then they sign the NRL contracts. I've never seen anything though that came out officially where in the investigation the salary cap auditors said he got 2 contracts with 2 values. Could be wrong though as it was a long time ago. All i really remember is Kent bleating about it but he bleats about a lot of things that were wrong.

The other stuff you mentioned was really just him taking advantage of the rules really. He is that smart a footy player if they changed them he would just have adapted. I dont like the wrestling and shit, but i dont feel i can use it as a stick to beat him with as its all legal. Its up to the NRL rulemakers to sort that out. And tbf to him, he did adapt. He was still effective under the new rules.

 

[Scorchie]

Sign two contracts and receive more dollars in your account than the nrl contract you signed.

Can you honestly say you wouldn’t notice extra to what your employment letter said?

For this reason Locky > Smith