The Mysterious Contract of Boyd (Continue the discussion here please, not the Kevvie Thread)

[Cult]

So he failed his duty as a head coach to procure the best playing roster moving forward. That's what fans on here are upset with and I don't blame them.

I don’t blame them for being upset. I blame them for carrying on like dick heads and moving the goal posts when debating. He said I want Boyd, at the time he wasn’t terrible, the rest was sorted by White and Mimis. It’s that simple

 

[theshed]

I don’t blame them for being upset. I blame them for carrying on like dick heads and moving the goal posts when debating. He said I want Boyd, at the time he wasn’t terrible, the rest was sorted by White and Mimis. It’s that simple

Your perspective takes quite a few assumptions too. The truth is we won’t know how much influence each party had on the final decision.

I find it very hard to believe Bennett would allow such a significant contract happen without his approval. How much influence did he have? I have no idea. Was he the biggest influence? Probably not.

 

[Big Pete]

Look, I could be totally wrong here, but I thought a significant difference between Bennett in his initial stint at the Broncos and after his return in 2015 was around him no longer having sole control and responsibility for the football team?

I'm happy to hear if I've got this wrong and it wasn't the case, but I thought that the 'handshake deal every year instead of a contract' and having sole responsibility for the football team more or less died with Bruno Cullen and was a big part of why Bennett ever entertained leaving to go to the Roosters in the first place.

Now I'm not for a moment suggesting he didn't have a very significant influence over who the club recruited even when he returned in 2015, but we know for a fact the club has a recruitment and retention committee and that Bennett was just one member of that committee. I'm reading between the lines a little here now but I can also reasonably accept that within that committee (based on who else was there too) that his role as Coach is likely to tell the others what he wants from a personnel perspective and then it is up to the other members and particularly the guys in control of the finances (Paul White) to then go and make that happen and agree on terms with the relative player/player manager.

As I said, I'm not absolving Bennett of the blame on Boyd and he undoubtedly had a significant role in the decision to offer him another deal which we can all agree in hindsight was a mistake, but I think when it comes to being frustrated at the terms and length of that deal then it's unlikely to be Bennett that had the greatest say over that aspect of Boyd's last contract.

It was a different system when Bennett first started with the club with far less provisions and clauses to look after but from the moment Bennett arrived at Brisbane you could tell he had a large influence on recruitment and retention.

I've never heard anything about Cullen wanting to take a more hands on approach with recruitment. As far as I understand it, Bennett was under pressure since the Broncos had failed to win a finals game in three seasons and were on a losing streak. Cullen told the media that Bennett had his full support, but there would be a review and Bennett didn't like the sound of that. Meanwhile his good buddy at the Roosters Politis expressed interest in his services so he had an escape plan ready for 2006.

As far as his influence on his recruitment all you have to do is look at the Broncos recruitment and retention in 2015 to see what was going on. Not even in terms of who actually signed but also who the Broncos were chasing. It wasn't like they had a committee and Bennett's vote mattered as much as Lockyer's, he's the head coach he has the majority say.

Besides, wasn't the plan to keep him around as a director of football? Wouldn't that suggest they wanted him around because of his expertise in recruitment and retention ala Gus Gould?

I don’t blame them for being upset. I blame them for carrying on like dick heads and moving the goal posts when debating. He said I want Boyd, at the time he wasn’t terrible, the rest was sorted by White and Mimis. It’s that simple

The problem is both sides are trying to pin it on one guy when the blame has to be shared. However, Boyd was only at the Broncos because of Bennett, this doesn't happen if he didn't bring Boyd here in the first place and position him to be the captain.

 

[Cult]

It was a different system when Bennett first started with the club with far less provisions and clauses to look after but from the moment Bennett arrived at Brisbane you could tell he had a large influence on recruitment and retention.

I've never heard anything about Cullen wanting to take a more hands on approach with recruitment. As far as I understand it, Bennett was under pressure since the Broncos had failed to win a finals game in three seasons and were on a losing streak. Cullen told the media that Bennett had his full support, but there would be a review and Bennett didn't like the sound of that. Meanwhile his good buddy at the Roosters Politis expressed interest in his services so he had an escape plan ready for 2006.

As far as his influence on his recruitment all you have to do is look at the Broncos recruitment and retention in 2015 to see what was going on. Not even in terms of who actually signed but also who the Broncos were chasing. It wasn't like they had a committee and Bennett's vote mattered as much as Lockyer's, he's the head coach he has the majority say.

Besides, wasn't the plan to keep him around as a director of football? Wouldn't that suggest they wanted him around because of his expertise in recruitment and retention ala Gus Gould?


The problem is both sides are trying to pin it on one guy when the blame has to be shared. However, Boyd was only at the Broncos because of Bennett, this doesn't happen if he didn't bring Boyd here in the first place and position him to be the captain.

Except I’m not. I have used quotes from Mimis and White about the contract negotiations, whereas the other side is just saying things based on feelings. That’s not how these things work. Just give me something that’s not based on guessing and I’ll apologise and move on. Until there is a quote from someone involved stating otherwise there’s no reason to be making things up at this point.

 

[Wolfie]

It was a different system when Bennett first started with the club with far less provisions and clauses to look after but from the moment Bennett arrived at Brisbane you could tell he had a large influence on recruitment and retention.

I've never heard anything about Cullen wanting to take a more hands on approach with recruitment. As far as I understand it, Bennett was under pressure since the Broncos had failed to win a finals game in three seasons and were on a losing streak. Cullen told the media that Bennett had his full support, but there would be a review and Bennett didn't like the sound of that. Meanwhile his good buddy at the Roosters Politis expressed interest in his services so he had an escape plan ready for 2006.

As far as his influence on his recruitment all you have to do is look at the Broncos recruitment and retention in 2015 to see what was going on. Not even in terms of who actually signed but also who the Broncos were chasing. It wasn't like they had a committee and Bennett's vote mattered as much as Lockyer's, he's the head coach he has the majority say.

Besides, wasn't the plan to keep him around as a director of football? Wouldn't that suggest they wanted him around because of his expertise in recruitment and retention ala Gus Gould?


The problem is both sides are trying to pin it on one guy when the blame has to be shared. However, Boyd was only at the Broncos because of Bennett, this doesn't happen if he didn't bring Boyd here in the first place and position him to be the captain.

I dont think when Boyd came back, or when he was made captain they were bad choices. Even his contract, in terms of his market value was probably right when it got extended. Where it went wrong was the contract length. At the time i said a 2 year deal would have been about right ( and these negotiations would have come before his bad hamstring injury ). Bringing Boyd back initially proved to be a smart decision. The dumb decision came when his contract got renewed.

I dont think its as simple either as saying Bennett would have had the majority say in 2015. Obviously, there would have been certain players who Wayne would have wanted over others, but the system from 2015 onwards under Bennett wasnt a Wayne dictatorship. We have a recruitment team of more than one person. I'd only be guessing, as everyone would be on here because nobody really knows, but i'd say the recruitment was shared a lot more than it used to be. The biggest influence i think Wayne had was his ability to attract players. Payne Haas came here because of Wayne for example when he probably had better offers on the table. As i have said, Wayne in his second spell was more just a part of a system rather than running the whole show.

 

[Big Pete]

I dont think when Boyd came back, or when he was made captain they were bad choices. Even his contract, in terms of his market value was probably right when it got extended. Where it went wrong was the contract length. At the time i said a 2 year deal would have been about right ( and these negotiations would have come before his bad hamstring injury ). Bringing Boyd back initially proved to be a smart decision. The dumb decision came when his contract got renewed.

I dont think its as simple either as saying Bennett would have had the majority say in 2015. Obviously, there would have been certain players who Wayne would have wanted over others, but the system from 2015 onwards under Bennett wasnt a Wayne dictatorship. We have a recruitment team of more than one person. I'd only be guessing, as everyone would be on here because nobody really knows, but i'd say the recruitment was shared a lot more than it used to be. The biggest influence i think Wayne had was his ability to attract players. Payne Haas came here because of Wayne for example when he probably had better offers on the table. As i have said, Wayne in his second spell was more just a part of a system rather than running the whole show.

Neither do I, but there are obviously people on here who thought they were bad choices to begin with so if they want to blame Bennett have at it.

Signing players like Boyd, Waddell, Boyce, Blair, Gavet etc. points to Bennett having a huge influence of signings. That doesn't absolve Nolan who obviously brought in players like Eden and Perese but to pretend that Bennett's opinion only counted as much as Louise's is a laugh.

Except I’m not. I have used quotes from Mimis and White about the contract negotiations, whereas the other side is just saying things based on feelings. That’s not how these things work. Just give me something that’s not based on guessing and I’ll apologise and move on. Until there is a quote from someone involved stating otherwise there’s no reason to be making things up at this point.

No need to apologise, I'm just saying particularly with the Mimis quotes I'd take them with a grain of salt. You can argue it's better than nothing but it wasn't exactly a strong defence from an impartial source nor did it completely clear Bennett of any responsibility - he validated the decision according to Mimis.

I just think taking sides on this is silly when it's clear that there was plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Cult]

Neither do I, but there are obviously people on here who thought they were bad choices to begin with so if they want to blame Bennett have at it.

Signing players like Boyd, Waddell, Boyce, Blair, Gavet etc. points to Bennett having a huge influence of signings. That doesn't absolve Nolan who obviously brought in players like Eden and Perese but to pretend that Bennett's opinion only counted as much as Louise's is a laugh.

No need to apologise, I'm just saying particularly with the Mimis quotes I'd take them with a grain of salt. You can argue it's better than nothing but it wasn't exactly a strong defence from an impartial source nor did it completely clear Bennett of any responsibility - he validated the decision according to Mimis.

I just think taking sides on this is silly when it's clear that there was plenty of blame to go around.

It is the only defence from someone in the know so far. And you’re right, I’m arguing that it’s stupid to guess and make things up just to blame Bennett for something.

 

[Big Pete]

It is the only defence from someone in the know so far.

Like I said I'm not buying into the 'it's better than nothing' defence for the reasons that I've outlined.

And you’re right, I’m arguing that it’s stupid to guess and make things up just to blame Bennett for something.

OK, but I don't necessarily think it's wrong to blame the head coach for bad recruitment and retention. We're happy to give them credit when they make good signings which Bennett certainly made in his time, but he deserves some share of the blame as well.

 

[Wolfie]

Neither do I, but there are obviously people on here who thought they were bad choices to begin with so if they want to blame Bennett have at it.

Signing players like Boyd, Waddell, Boyce, Blair, Gavet etc. points to Bennett having a huge influence of signings. That doesn't absolve Nolan who obviously brought in players like Eden and Perese but to pretend that Bennett's opinion only counted as much as Louise's is a laugh.

No need to apologise, I'm just saying particularly with the Mimis quotes I'd take them with a grain of salt. You can argue it's better than nothing but it wasn't exactly a strong defence from an impartial source nor did it completely clear Bennett of any responsibility - he validated the decision according to Mimis.

I just think taking sides on this is silly when it's clear that there was plenty of blame to go around.

Lanigan isnt part of the recruitment team though tbf, she just decides if we can afford the player or not.

 

[rnabokov]

I don’t blame them for being upset. I blame them for carrying on like dick heads and moving the goal posts when debating. He said I want Boyd, at the time he wasn’t terrible, the rest was sorted by White and Mimis. It’s that simple

As I am never averse to going out on a limb, I'll respond like this, taking into account Big Pete 's posts and others.

As I am, according to you, that "random bloke on BHQ" who raised yet again the question of Bennett and Boyd's contract a few posts ago, my point was to situate my thoughts in the context of an issue often debated on here recently, and rightly so - the Broncos culture, something Kevvie has to deal with now and is doing so, roster wise at least, and my view that a lot of it has to do with Bennett's profound influence on that culture, particularly in recruitment and retention. I am not so much trying to blame Bennett as highlight his influence on the club, particularly since 2017, and how that played out particularly given his sacking, its circumstances, and what happened to us this year.

That is why I raised my point in this thread. As I see it, it's a big deal for Kevvie. Part of his unenviable job is start a Walters culture, displacing and in part, dispersing Bennett's influence on the club (but separate and distinct from Wayne's justly hallowed place in Broncos history. His reputation as a great coach is not in question.)

So I used the Boyd contract issue as just one example of Bennett's serious influence on the Broncos, and, at the back of mind, I still think about the group of Bennett acolytes, who I have also mentioned, and do so again in this regard - Milford, Lodge, Oates, Pangai and Offa, all key, senior players and all who both screwed up on field in 2020, and also for mine, were part of the putsch to eliminate Seibold, as I see it, to avenge Bennett's sacking, through shit performances, and also, through white anting Seibold privately, publicly (TPJ) and in the media. Disloyalty to their coach is a word that comes to mind, and of course, their actions had a terrible effect on the club and on us, loyal fans. Again, I am not blaming Bennett for those players having their own personal agendas as I allege, but I am ascribing those to Bennett's profound influence on the players who adore him.

So I am sure Walters wants none of that under his watch, and I am guessing he wants some accountability from those players for their actions in 2020, and to ensure he has their 100% loyalty and performance guarantees for the next 2 years at least, so he can be remembered as a great coach in his own right, and not as a footnote to Bennett.

Maybe I am drawing a long bow, but it is how I feel, and when I remember this season, I feel like shit. So yes, bring on the Kevolution ASAP.

 

[theshed]

As I am never averse to going out on a limb, I'll respond like this, taking into account Big Pete 's posts and others.

As I am, according to you, that "random bloke on BHQ" who raised yet again the question of Bennett and Boyd's contract a few posts ago, my point was to situate my thoughts in the context of an issue often debated on here recently, and rightly so - the Broncos culture, something Kevvie has to deal with now and is doing so, roster wise at least, and my view that a lot of it has to do with Bennett's profound influence on that culture, particularly in recruitment and retention. I am not so much trying to blame Bennett as highlight his influence on the club, particularly since 2017, and how that played out particularly given his sacking, its circumstances, and what happened to us this year.

That is why I raised my point in this thread. As I see it, it's a big deal for Kevvie. Part of his unenviable job is start a Walters culture, displacing and in part, dispersing Bennett's influence on the club (but separate and distinct from Wayne's justly hallowed place in Broncos history. His reputation as a great coach is not in question.)

So I used the Boyd contract issue as just one example of Bennett's serious influence on the Broncos, and, at the back of mind, I still think about the group of Bennett acolytes, who I have also mentioned, and do so again in this regard - Milford, Lodge, Oates, Pangai and Offa, all key, senior players and all who both screwed up on field in 2020, and also for mine, were part of the putsch to eliminate Seibold, as I see it, to avenge Bennett's sacking, through shit performances, and also, through white anting Seibold privately, publicly (TPJ) and in the media. Disloyalty to their coach is a word that comes to mind, and of course, their actions had a terrible effect on the club and on us, loyal fans. Again, I am not blaming Bennett for those players having their own personal agendas as I allege, but I am ascribing those to Bennett's profound influence on the players who adore him.

So I am sure Walters wants none of that under his watch, and I am guessing he wants some accountability from those players for their actions in 2020, and to ensure he has their 100% loyalty and performance guarantees for the next 2 years at least, so he can be remembered as a great coach in his own right, and not as a footnote to Bennett.

Maybe I am drawing a long bow, but it is how I feel, and when I remember this season, I feel like shit. So yes, bring on the Kevolution ASAP.

I usually read posts and never pay attention to the names of who is posting it, but on certain posts I just get an instinct of which poster it is and scroll back up to check - I reckon I have a 95% strike rate

 

[Cult]

Like I said I'm not buying into the 'it's better than nothing' defence for the reasons that I've outlined.


OK, but I don't necessarily think it's wrong to blame the head coach for bad recruitment and retention. We're happy to give them credit when they make good signings which Bennett certainly made in his time, but he deserves some share of the blame as well.

Because players have literally admitted to coming to the club because of Bennett.

 

[broncsgoat]

Because players have literally admitted to coming to the club because of Bennett.

Oh they were just saying that and didn’t actually mean it because you know reasons

 

[Big Pete]

Because players have literally admitted to coming to the club because of Bennett.

Yes and were they all good signings?

 

[Cult]

Yes and were they all good signings?

Nobody said that. Why is it that he’s either perfect or the worst thing ever? He’s made mistakes, prove to me that this is one of them.

 

[Big Pete]

Nobody said that. Why is it that he’s either perfect or the worst thing ever? He’s made mistakes, prove to me that this is one of them.

I said that.

My point is that Bennett was responsible for these signings and they haven't all been good.

He's the head coach and Boyd was re-signed under his watch. That's enough for me to hold him responsible.

 

[Cult]

I said that.

My point is that Bennett was responsible for these signings and they haven't all been good.

He's the head coach and Boyd was re-signed under his watch. That's enough for me to hold him responsible.

Except the re-signing was a fine choice at the time and he didn’t decide the price and length and until there’s some evidence to prove otherwise this conversation isn’t worth my time

 

[theshed]

Nobody said that. Why is it that he’s either perfect or the worst thing ever? He’s made mistakes, prove to me that this is one of them.

I think you’re creating that false dichotomy. Wayne Bennett is my favourite sporting personality of all time. I actually almost love like an uncle, yeah it’s creepy. But I can see his flaws and poor decisions he’s made along the way.

****, he even ballsed up massively the other night by moving Cam Murray out of his best position.