The Mysterious Contract of Boyd (Continue the discussion here please, not the Kevvie Thread)

[rnabokov]

Because players have literally admitted to coming to the club because of Bennett.

I'd like to think that players come to the club first because they want to play for the Broncos

 

[Cult]

I think you’re creating that false dichotomy. Wayne Bennett is my favourite sporting personality of all time. I actually almost love like an uncle, yeah it’s creepy. But I can see his flaws and poor decisions he’s made along the way.

****, he even ballsed up massively the other night by moving Cam Murray out of his best position.

You’re literally quoting a post where I said he’s made many errors. Also I’m not creating a false dichotomy at all. By saying plenty of people have signed because of him, BP tried to imply I was saying they were all great. It simply wasn’t the case and another example of the goal posts being moved throughout this discussion.

Did he or did he not decide the length and pay of Boyd’s contract. If so, prove it. If not, get over it. It’s that simple

 

[theshed]

You’re literally quoting a post where I said he’s made many errors. Also I’m not creating a false dichotomy at all. By saying plenty of people have signed because of him, BP tried to imply I was saying they were all great. It simply wasn’t the case and another example of the goal posts being moved throughout this discussion.

Did he or did he not decide the length and pay of Boyd’s contract. If so, prove it. If not, get over it. It’s that simple

I don’t think you can prove it either way, yeah you have a few quotes but there’s also logic involved. I think you are trying to make it one thing or the other.

 

[Big Pete]

By saying plenty of people have signed because of him, BP tried to imply I was saying they were all great. It simply wasn’t the case and another example of the goal posts being moved throughout this discussion.

Shifting the goal posts?

I said it wasn't wrong to blame a head coach for bad recruitment and retention. To which you said your piece and I wanted clarification since there seemed to be a breakdown in communcation.

I'm going cross-eyed.

 

[Cult]

I don’t think you can prove it either way, yeah you have a few quotes but there’s also logic involved. I think you are trying to make it one thing or the other.

The onus isn’t on me to prove it. I’m not the one making the allegations that Bennett was involved in the length and price of Boyd’s contract.

Also BP, we were discussing Boyd’s contract specifically. I’m not sure why you’re bringing up other contracts that Bennett was actually involved in and whether they were good or not. TPJ cold calling him has nothing to do with Boyd’s contract length, does it?

 

[Big Pete]

We ended up talking about a lot of things including the influence Bennett had on the roster. I pointed out that Bennett's influence manifested itself in the form of the players that were signed and the change of direction recruitment went under when he signed with the club. Clearly he still had tremendous sway so he had the ability to represent the club's best interest at heart if he wanted to but he was happy for Darius Boyd to get the best deal out of the club even at it's own expense.

 

[Cult]

We ended up talking about a lot of things including the influence Bennett had on the roster. I pointed out that Bennett's influence manifested itself in the form of the players that were signed and the change of direction recruitment went under when he signed with the club. Clearly he still had tremendous sway so he had the ability to represent the club's best interest at heart if he wanted to but he was happy for Darius Boyd to get the best deal out of the club even at it's own expense.

We didn’t, you did. I have been discussing the Boyd contract and Bennett’s influence (or lack of) regarding the contract length and price. I’m simply stating that if you have any actual evidence disputing what Mimis said, then post it. If not then the discussion can’t possibly go any further. Anything else is shifting the goal posts, unnecessary tangents, unproven accusations or just flat out conspiracy theories at this point.

 

[Big Pete]

'We' as in the community, there are others involved in this thread. Even so, I fail to see how I shifted the goalposts, I've maintained that from the start a head coach has to accept a degree of responsibility for his recruitment and retention. I'll add that's especially case for a player he appoints as captain and brought to the club.

I'm happy to wrap things up there but you understand that Mimis quotes don't clear Bennett right?

 

[Cult]

'We' as in the community, there are others involved in this thread. Even so, I fail to see how I shifted the goalposts, I've maintained that from the start a head coach has to accept a degree of responsibility for his recruitment and retention. I'll add that's especially case for a player he appoints as captain and brought to the club.

I'm happy to wrap things up there but you understand that Mimis quotes don't clear Bennett right?

I understand, I’m just asking for anyone to add literally any sort of proof saying otherwise. You understand that right?

 

[broncos4life]

We didn’t, you did. I have been discussing the Boyd contract and Bennett’s influence (or lack of) regarding the contract length and price. I’m simply stating that if you have any actual evidence disputing what Mimis said, then post it. If not then the discussion can’t possibly go any further. Anything else is shifting the goal posts, unnecessary tangents, unproven accusations or just flat out conspiracy theories at this point.

The problem is the evidence you are demanding doesn’t exist because it is not things people will say and Bennett’s agent is not going to come out and say he was heavily involved in a bullshit contract and as for the club denying or anything we have seen that they never say anything even when attacked.

What BP is trying to point out is that there is evidence in patterns and just straight logic but you won’t accept that. You have basically set the bar at an impossible standard to the point that there probably is no point in discussing.

 

[Cult]

The problem is the evidence you are demanding doesn’t exist because it is not things people will say and Bennett’s agent is not going to come out and say he was heavily involved in a bullshit contract and as for the club denying or anything we have seen that they never say anything even when attacked.

What BP is trying to point out is that there is evidence in patterns and just straight logic but you won’t accept that. You have basically set the bar at an impossible standard to the point that there probably is no point in discussing.

I also posted quotes from Paul White saying he was working with Boyd and his manager specifically, but nobody replied to that. Again, the onus isn’t on me to prove anything. Also you tried to say he threw the Bulldogs game just to spite us, I’m not sure you’re using much logic and evidence at all. There’s an obvious bias here

 

[Cult]

Can you guys take the Boyd contract discussion to one of the 1800 Boyd threads please?

Or the conspiracy thread?

 

[broncos4life]

I also posted quotes from Paul White saying he was working with Boyd and his manager specifically, but nobody replied to that. Again, the onus isn’t on me to prove anything. Also you tried to say he threw the Bulldogs game just to spite us, I’m not sure you’re using much logic and evidence at all. There’s an obvious bias here

As I said there isn't going to be specific quotes from people to the contrary. No-one is going to publicly put their hand up for any involvement in the this clusterfuck unless the have to.

Probably bias on my part and I admit to that, I believe you have bias for Bennett but whether or not you will admit to that is another question. In terms of the actual Rabbitohs and Bulldogs games there are far too many coincidences there for me to believe he didn't throw that game to spite us.

 

[Cult]

As I said there isn't going to be specific quotes from people to the contrary. No-one is going to publicly put their hand up for any involvement in the this clusterfuck unless the have to.

Probably bias on my part and I admit to that, I believe you have bias for Bennett but whether or not you will admit to that is another question. In terms of the actual Rabbitohs and Bulldogs games there are far too many coincidences there for me to believe he didn't throw that game to spite us.

Waiting for actual information before jumping to a conclusion isn’t biased though

 

[Kooly87]

It was a different system when Bennett first started with the club with far less provisions and clauses to look after but from the moment Bennett arrived at Brisbane you could tell he had a large influence on recruitment and retention.

I've never heard anything about Cullen wanting to take a more hands on approach with recruitment. As far as I understand it, Bennett was under pressure since the Broncos had failed to win a finals game in three seasons and were on a losing streak. Cullen told the media that Bennett had his full support, but there would be a review and Bennett didn't like the sound of that. Meanwhile his good buddy at the Roosters Politis expressed interest in his services so he had an escape plan ready for 2006.

As far as his influence on his recruitment all you have to do is look at the Broncos recruitment and retention in 2015 to see what was going on. Not even in terms of who actually signed but also who the Broncos were chasing. It wasn't like they had a committee and Bennett's vote mattered as much as Lockyer's, he's the head coach he has the majority say.

Besides, wasn't the plan to keep him around as a director of football? Wouldn't that suggest they wanted him around because of his expertise in recruitment and retention ala Gus Gould?


The problem is both sides are trying to pin it on one guy when the blame has to be shared. However, Boyd was only at the Broncos because of Bennett, this doesn't happen if he didn't bring Boyd here in the first place and position him to be the captain.

Apologies, I may have poorly explained what I meant by Cullen, not that he was taking on more recruitment work, simply that under Cullen things started to shift for Bennett to an environment where he had an actual contract with the club and as you pointed out, was subject to a more formal review etc.

As for his influence on signings, I absolutely agree that no one on the committee likely has a bigger say than the Coach, be that Bennett or Seibold, and that's not to say anything of the first stint under Bennett where he was almost solely responsible for who the club did and did not sign. Perhaps no Coach since has ever wielded the level influence that Bennett did at the Broncos particularly in his first stint but to a lesser, though still significant extent, in his second stint too.

I guess what I'm trying to say as far as the committee goes though is that whilst Bennett is the one who determines that they need Boyd and how badly they should move things around to make that happen, I would presume the actual negotiation and the financials of the deal are handled by other members of that committee. Wayne Bennett is surely not in charge of balancing our salary cap or determining our method of negotiation or what terms need to be put on the table to get a player and his agent to sign and I would expect the nuts and bolts of getting that deal done to be handled by either Nolan or White or both.

Whether Boyd should have been bought back to the club and then offered another extension after that were very much subjective at the time, but I think we can all agree it didn't realistically work out for the Broncos. Bennett deserves the blame for making a bad call here, however I'm only holding him as culpable as the guys who put together the actual contract and then signed off on it as I think once they had instructions from Bennett to secure Boyd, they failed to leverage the relationship between Boyd and Bennett and their will to work together that should probably have seen us secure Boyd for less than he was objectively worth on the marketplace. If Boyd wanted to work with Bennett I'm absolutely sure they could have convinced him to take unders or a shorter deal or perhaps even both if it was important enough to him.

If Bennett's call to sign and then re-sign Boyd was poor (which it absolutely was) then surely it was only as poor as the club management's inability to negotiate that deal with terms and conditions that were far less favourable to Boyd and far more protective of the Broncos than they ended up being.

 

[Revivous]

Mole reporting Asiata to Broncos.

"KEV WANTS COWBOY FOR BRONCOS

New Broncos coach Kevin Walters has made Cowboys forward John Asiata one of his main targets for 2021.

The Broncos have a big, powerful pack but all the players are basically ball-runners.

Asiata, with silky skills and the ability to play just about anywhere on the park, offers a point of difference.

But the ball-playing forward won't come cheap - and that is why Walters is looking to offload the likes of Jack Bird, Matt Lodge and Joe Ofahengaue."

 

[Foordy]

But the ball-playing forward won't come cheap - and that is why Walters is looking to offload the likes of Jack Bird, Matt Lodge and Joe Ofahengaue."

so what is the mole trying to say ... that Asiata will cost us over $2 million a season, lol

 

[Sproj]

Let's say it is true though (which it of course isn't), imagine losing Lodge, Bird and Joffa to sign...Asiata. Deadset, what a shambles. He isn't even good, let alone worth breaking the bank on.