The NRL published TPA figures...

[Morkel]

The tax office has caught far brighter people than these clowns. I tell you, their data matching stuff is amazing.

The "it's my uncle's" - that's called a fringe benefit (fringe benefits tax). Provision of rent or a rent reduction is an fb too.

And if the clubs are paying under the table, then their payroll tax isn't up to date.

BTW if tax records won't reveal rorts, why do the players always seem to buck about the NRL seeing them.

Player's and clubs audited (by an auditor, say KPMG) tax records must be delivered to NRL HQ each year. Club fails, out of the comp for the next year. Player fails, automatic deregistration for a year. Fail again, permanent bans.

As to their payroll tax, the payments wouldn't be done through payroll. A complicit 3rd party would issue bogus invoices for works done, the club would pay those, and then the 3rd party would then just transfer it to the player's manager. That's assuming the club is the one even paying the illegal amount - most times it will be straight from a club sponsor or interested party.

The ATO data matching stuff may be amazing, but it only catches people who have some component of the deals on legitimate books - like when the ATO were comparing luxury car registrations to declared incomes and finding people with $200,000 cars yet a taxable income of $40k. With deals like the clubs use, it's easy to make it look legit. The club sponsor simply pays $800k yet receives the equivalent of $1 million worth of sponsorship exposure. The extra $200k instead gets paid to a 3rd party (via legit-looking invoices for whatever service would seem legit) who then gets "billed" by the player's manager. Or in the case of the property deals, the sponsor simply "paid" the players by selling them properties at heavily discounted prices.

These deals are happening everywhere, not just in sport to get around cap rules. They're essentially tax avoidance tactics. Some people get caught, a lot don't. I can tell you 5 people right now, within my social circle or extended family, that use cash or dodgy invoicing to avoid paying tax. None have been caught.

 

[Brent81]

As to their payroll tax, the payments wouldn't be done through payroll. A complicit 3rd party would issue bogus invoices for works done, the club would pay those, and then the 3rd party would then just transfer it to the player's manager. That's assuming the club is the one even paying the illegal amount - most times it will be straight from a club sponsor or interested party.

The ATO data matching stuff may be amazing, but it only catches people who have some component of the deals on legitimate books - like when the ATO were comparing luxury car registrations to declared incomes and finding people with $200,000 cars yet a taxable income of $40k. With deals like the clubs use, it's easy to make it look legit. The club sponsor simply pays $800k yet receives the equivalent of $1 million worth of sponsorship exposure. The extra $200k instead gets paid to a 3rd party (via legit-looking invoices for whatever service would seem legit) who then gets "billed" by the player's manager. Or in the case of the property deals, the sponsor simply "paid" the players by selling them properties at heavily discounted prices.

These deals are happening everywhere, not just in sport to get around cap rules. They're essentially tax avoidance tactics. Some people get caught, a lot don't. I can tell you 5 people right now, within my social circle or extended family, that use cash or dodgy invoicing to avoid paying tax. None have been caught.

Yet.

Ps the above (issuing dodgy invoices etc) is called fraud (actually technically its a document so it's uttering).

I have no doubt your right about it happening. But the NRL seems keen to do nothing about it.

If they got the players tax records and the club's audited records (note auditors are required to actual enquire as to what's happening, not just accept the records "as is"), they'd have exposed the Storm fiasco straight away.

 

[mitch222]

Many many tradies are "bright" enough to outsmart the ATO. It's cash - it's untraceable, that's the point.

Tax records also don't show the other tactics used to bypass the salary cap - @007 alluded to rent, but it can extend much further. Like the rumoured properties that were able to be purchased by certain players for way below market value. Or like, boats arriving on someone's driveway ("It's my uncle's"). And let's not forget that the player's managers are a big part of all this - after all, all the money goes through them whether it's above board or not. Black money can simply be payed to the manager, who then transfers it to dodgy accounts or to buy whatever it is the player would otherwise purchase themselves.

Contractor Payment Summaries are catching up to these guys in a big way just recently.

 

[007]

A solution which is a bit extreme, is that as part of their NRL contract, they declare all earned income. This would be from the game and outside the game. This would then allow TAX records matching. There is still the issue of "cheap" houses, stupid low rent, uncles boat in driveway - however the pressure would be on and if they do get busted - permaban them. Writing into the contract that the player declares all income with their signature ensures that players cannot use the "i didnt know" "my manager did it" when they get audited.

 

[talanoa]

I'm fine with that. It's about time these clubs took responsibility for being run into the ground. Any other business, they go under.

The good thing here, we have a few bids around the country which deserve a shot. Kill of the useless pricks, give someone else a go. I'm over the NRL bailing out clubs who continually run them like this, and rely solely on poker machines. It's a pathetic existence, and a horrible look. The NRL shouldn't own any clubs either. Once you're out of money, your license is void, you're gone.

i see your point and i agree some of these clubs have been poorly run but the nrl cant run the risk of an epl stye format. our fan base and tv market isnt big enough and we as a game are only an east coast of aus product - the game has minimal exposure outside of nsw and qld. if they adopted the firm stance of once your out of money then you are gone that would spell the end of the nrl. they would lose generations of fans. the big item would be the tv rights, if the nrl couldnt satisfy at least 8 games a week and wall to wall coverage their tv deal would be up the shit and you would end up like the old days of watching a half baked edited game on a late sunday afternoon.
i would like to see private ownership across all clubs, but the maths doesnt add up. russell crowe bank rolls the bunnies and they are a big member based club - but he wont do it forever. the storm are privately owned as well but they are lean and mean with their staff but are extremely $$$ conscious as well.

the problem i see is their are too many blood suckers attached at each club - so many extra staff who seem to find a job for one of their mates or an old team man. the cost of this is where the cash starts to chew up and the footy departments of the clubs are too heavy. i firmly believe in the afl model of a draft, the afl and local clubs are responsible for development and learning. this would free up excess staff and considerable wages as well which would allow more profitable clubs.

 

[talanoa]

As to their payroll tax, the payments wouldn't be done through payroll. A complicit 3rd party would issue bogus invoices for works done, the club would pay those, and then the 3rd party would then just transfer it to the player's manager. That's assuming the club is the one even paying the illegal amount - most times it will be straight from a club sponsor or interested party.

The ATO data matching stuff may be amazing, but it only catches people who have some component of the deals on legitimate books - like when the ATO were comparing luxury car registrations to declared incomes and finding people with $200,000 cars yet a taxable income of $40k. With deals like the clubs use, it's easy to make it look legit. The club sponsor simply pays $800k yet receives the equivalent of $1 million worth of sponsorship exposure. The extra $200k instead gets paid to a 3rd party (via legit-looking invoices for whatever service would seem legit) who then gets "billed" by the player's manager. Or in the case of the property deals, the sponsor simply "paid" the players by selling them properties at heavily discounted prices.

These deals are happening everywhere, not just in sport to get around cap rules. They're essentially tax avoidance tactics. Some people get caught, a lot don't. I can tell you 5 people right now, within my social circle or extended family, that use cash or dodgy invoicing to avoid paying tax. None have been caught.

you are on the right track mork, here is an old one that is well known amongst the nrl clubs-
developer associated to a club sells land to an unnamed player for x $ below market value. they then build a house for x $ below everyday joe's cost to build. technically the house and land should have cost $1m for me or you - however for mr unnamed player they acutally get it for 700k - or the house is bought and built for undisclosed sums in the parents name. its creative and it happens.

 

[Nashy]

i see your point and i agree some of these clubs have been poorly run but the nrl cant run the risk of an epl stye format. our fan base and tv market isnt big enough and we as a game are only an east coast of aus product - the game has minimal exposure outside of nsw and qld. if they adopted the firm stance of once your out of money then you are gone that would spell the end of the nrl. they would lose generations of fans. the big item would be the tv rights, if the nrl couldnt satisfy at least 8 games a week and wall to wall coverage their tv deal would be up the shit and you would end up like the old days of watching a half baked edited game on a late sunday afternoon.
i would like to see private ownership across all clubs, but the maths doesnt add up. russell crowe bank rolls the bunnies and they are a big member based club - but he wont do it forever. the storm are privately owned as well but they are lean and mean with their staff but are extremely $$$ conscious as well.

the problem i see is their are too many blood suckers attached at each club - so many extra staff who seem to find a job for one of their mates or an old team man. the cost of this is where the cash starts to chew up and the footy departments of the clubs are too heavy. i firmly believe in the afl model of a draft, the afl and local clubs are responsible for development and learning. this would free up excess staff and considerable wages as well which would allow more profitable clubs.

I didn't say it was going to be easy, and yes, it would hurt, and some generational fans would lose out, but at the end of the day, those old fans are just holding the game back like the old assholes with all those extra jobs.

Something has to happen. And I'm sick to death of money being spent on shit clubs, meaning every other aspect of the game misses out on that money.

A change needs to happen. Top to bottom, Administration to players.

 

[007]

I didn't say it was going to be easy, and yes, it would hurt, and some generational fans would lose out, but at the end of the day, those old fans are just holding the game back like the old assholes with all those extra jobs.

Something has to happen. And I'm sick to death of money being spent on shit clubs, meaning every other aspect of the game misses out on that money.

A change needs to happen. Top to bottom, Administration to players.

But Todd and Gus have long term plans in place...and reviews, that then lead to reviews of the review, and then an action plan which will lead to change (read with sarcasm please)

 

[Renegade]

you are on the right track mork, here is an old one that is well known amongst the nrl clubs-
developer associated to a club sells land to an unnamed player for x $ below market value. they then build a house for x $ below everyday joe's cost to build. technically the house and land should have cost $1m for me or you - however for mr unnamed player they acutally get it for 700k - or the house is bought and built for undisclosed sums in the parents name. its creative and it happens.

Wasn't Scott Prince under investigation for this sort of thing a few years back with the Tits?

 

[Morkel]

A solution which is a bit extreme, is that as part of their NRL contract, they declare all earned income. This would be from the game and outside the game. This would then allow TAX records matching. There is still the issue of "cheap" houses, stupid low rent, uncles boat in driveway - however the pressure would be on and if they do get busted - permaban them. Writing into the contract that the player declares all income with their signature ensures that players cannot use the "i didnt know" "my manager did it" when they get audited.

This already happens. All the "third party deals" add up to the player's total income, because having an agent means everything goes through them.

An example was Hindmarsh a few years ago. His book, and subsequent earnings, were not disclosed to the auditor. The Eels got in trouble for it.

And by the same token, players already have to sign everything.

 

[Sproj]

The old end of year cash in hand bonus too. BUT put it in a suitcase and then give it to the players. Player asks if this is cap included. The guy giving it obviously says yes even though they both know the yes is in regard to the actual case, not what's inside it.

They both laugh and say that every company does it and there you go, a salary cap included suitcase with a non-salary cap included couple of hundred thousand inside.

 

[Morkel]

Yet.

Ps the above (issuing dodgy invoices etc) is called fraud (actually technically its a document so it's uttering).

I have no doubt your right about it happening. But the NRL seems keen to do nothing about it.

If they got the players tax records and the club's audited records (note auditors are required to actual enquire as to what's happening, not just accept the records "as is"), they'd have exposed the Storm fiasco straight away.

Of course it's fraud. That's why the NRL are loathe to do anything heavy-handed about it. They don't want it to happen, of course, and they will put measures in place to prevent it from happening in the future, but if they went hard, right now, you'd find that half the players or more would be charged. No competition will risk that happening. The NRL showed their colours when they didn't ban the Storm players. If they didn't have the guts to tear up the contracts of 8-10 players because 2 or 3 of those happened to be marquees, they sure as **** won't risk 100 players getting done by authorities.

Every journo worth their salt will know of specific players and their specific deals. Not just that "it happens", but actual cases. They won't speak up because their livelihood depends on the game, and of course they have no proof, so they'd be on the streets, or, at worst, sued (not that any agency would publish it anyway). Best example - a Sharks sponsor spoke up and gave details of the illegal payments he made to Paul Gallen. The at-the-time NSW captain. Journalistic gold - the scandal of the decade. Where did that story go? There's simply too much to lose by exposing what's already going on or has gone on in the past. The best they can hope for is to appear heavy-handed and hopefully prevent extreme cases of it happening in the future.

 

[tommy]

I doubt the brown paper bags is as rampant as is being suggested. As with any conspiracy the more conspirators involved the harder it is to keep it under wraps. If everyone was getting them then someone, somewhere would have blabbed by now. Not to mention every player would have big stacks of cash sitting in their houses. The rorting would be a lot more subtle.

 

[Sproj]

I doubt the brown paper bags is as rampant as is being suggested. As with any conspiracy the more conspirators involved the harder it is to keep it under wraps. If everyone was getting them then someone, somewhere would have blabbed by now. Not to mention every player would have big stacks of cash sitting in their houses. The rorting would be a lot more subtle.

You thinking more like translucent plastic containers? Easier to store in plain sight?

 

[BroncsFan]

I'm starting to lean towards a national value system whereby players are represented by a points system. I was dead set against this when it was originally thrown about ages ago because there would be perceived bias when comparing one player to another in terms of value... but it would do away with all the issues around player wages, etc. As the notional value system would allow clubs to pay a player whatever they want whilst the roster/playing group would be capped completely independent of player wages.

If you wanted to prevent big clubs from hoarding you could set a soft cap (provided by NRL as they currently do) and a hard cap (whereby anything above the soft cap gets taxed heavily against the club and paid to the NRL... alternative revenue streams anyone).

The potential negatives would be an ability to hoard young players whose notional value might be quite low but those teams could be hit hard with taxes for exceeding the soft cap as they still need to field a team that can compete. Also as a player develops their notional value could explode and leave them suddenly approaching their notional value cap and having to shed players, but this should be happening under a normal cap anyway.

Determining the notional value of a player would be subjective, but hell super coach and fantasy football leagues already do it so it can't be that bloody hard.

 

[john1420]

OK so it's rant time.........

I am sick to death of people whinging about third parties and saying rubbish like "so much for an even playing field"

Point one - if the TPA's (and constant Fri night games) are SO much of an advantage, where the bloody hell are our recent premierships?

Point two - in what universe does ANYBODY think the competition is even? We have 16 teams but only 24 rounds, so you play some teams once and others twice. Unless every team plays the top teams the same number of times as every other team, and the same for the weak teams, how in the world is it even? And what about Origin? I don't even understand how anybody is even trying to claim the comp is even???

 

[talanoa]

I doubt the brown paper bags is as rampant as is being suggested. As with any conspiracy the more conspirators involved the harder it is to keep it under wraps. If everyone was getting them then someone, somewhere would have blabbed by now. Not to mention every player would have big stacks of cash sitting in their houses. The rorting would be a lot more subtle.

you would be surprised how strong the brown paper bag gang still is these days.
half of the boneheads dont know how to park their cash so they gamble it away or go get on the nose beers!!!

 

[talanoa]

Wasn't Scott Prince under investigation for this sort of thing a few years back with the Tits?

i believe so