The Wayne Bennett Super thread!

[Dexter]

Re: youth policy

Cheers - I meant assume Hasler and Craig Bellamy aren't options because they are under contract.

Wayne Bennett is off contract. Griffin is sacked/died/retired/left the Broncos.

Who would you want to coach the Broncos?

Oh, ok then I would want WB back mostly for how he can get players to the club. I have no doubt he would target the key positions and the club would improve.

 

[Anonymous person]

Re: youth policy

For a bloke who claims to give him plenty of credit you shore are quick to jump on any positive post to argue against it.

He has won 2 premierships since 2006 the same as Hasler and one more than Bellamy so on that score alone he still ranks up with the very best in the game.

He's won 5 of the last 16 so throw stats around as much as you like anyone can make them fit an argument.

Now he's started to turn Newc around you don't like it because it smacks of buying a premiership yet you'll argue that the Storm really did win those 2 premierships even though they illegally bought them.

im quick to jump on a false positive, not just a positive.

5 of last 16, correct. but the game pre-2001 is a VASTLY different game to post-2000, and since then he's won 2. you might not have been watching rugby league since 2000, i dont know. back then i was one of the biggest "wayne bennett is the best coach in the game" supporters. then we got limited interchange and wrestling etc.

hes started to turn newcastle around? 1 win against a team that had 34% possession, who flat out sucked last year, and theyve turned around? when was the last time they made the finals? 2011. they MISSED the finals under wayne bennett, whereas they made the finals the year before without him. great turnaround that is lol.

like i said, i dont like it because it IS just trying to buy a premiership - he recruited half the team from the premiership winning dragons! ill argue that the storm did win those 2 premierships because i watched those seasons and i saw melbourne hold up the trophy after the grand final. they won. would they have won if they were under the cap? dont know. i do know that newcastle/bennett are trying to buy a premiership by dumping all their players and buying new ones. i didnt like it when the eels did it, i didnt like it when the bulldogs did it, i didnt like it when manly did it, and i dont like it now that newcastle are doing it. the funny thing is that im sure most people on here didnt like it when the eels/bulldogs/manly did it, yet seem to have no problem with bennett doing it for newcastle.

i dont know who i would want to replace griffin if he was sacked immediatly, but i dont want him sacked immediately. im not a fan of sacking coaches mid season unless theres something huge happen within the playing group where they will not play under the coach. i do not, however, want wayne bennett back EVER. his time at the broncos is done, move on. he needed to go years before he was pushed IMO, and we are better off for it. i dare say even Bennett would see that he is better off now, as he has seems to have actually learned from his mistakes of his last few seasons with us.

 

[OXY-351]

Re: youth policy

7 since 88, correct. 5 in the first 12 years, 2 in the proceeding 12. he got very, very lucky with the 2006 premiership, and well, lucky again in 2010 that melbourne were taken out of the race for the premiership.

Which other coach has won more in the past 12 years?

It's easy to say Wayne won 5 in the first 12 years and only 2 in the next 12, so he's obviously not as good anymore, but I think you are under-estimating just how much the salary cap, implemented mainly in those second 12 years, has on a coaches ability to keep a team in the premiership race year after year. Craig Bellamy obviously realised this, given he needed to cheat the system to keep his team in it.

I'm not sure Wayne is the best coach in the game anymore, but I think he's definitely been a better coach during the past 12 years than some given him credit for.

 

[Big Pete]

Here's the deal.

I'm setting this thread up for the sake of healthy discussion. I believe both sides have the ability to make good points and that members looking to educate themselves on Rugby League history can look into this thread and be greeted with good analysis from both sides of the coin.

All I'm asking is that you guys endeavor to keep the discussion in here. We'll show a degree of tolerance if this discussion is brought up organically in a live update thread but baiting or snide comments will result in an infraction and nobody wants that, especially if it comes from Fozz.

Cheers.

 

[Broncoman]

Re: youth policy

Hard for you to argue it at all Ap. I mean, I agree with you 100% regarding the style of footy he coaches, it's boring as bat**** but his worth as a coach can't be disputed. You can't argue that he keeps mediocre players and he's a bad coach but has delivered 7 premierships since 1988.

You can't argue that WB is a bad coach and only won because he had superior players but then argue how good Bellamy is when he hasn't been tested without his big 3.

I think CB is a brilliant coach but the fact remains the only time he has been tested as a coach without the big 3 was SoO and whilst that is unfair to judge him on that alone his arse is still glowing from the smacking it got.

I don't want to reignite the WB thing again I'm just pointing out I find it hard to understand how you can't give credit where it's due regardless what you think of his style.

Craig Bellamy coached the famous baby Broncos win in 2002.

 

[Anonymous person]

Re: youth policy

Craig Bellamy obviously realised this, given he needed to cheat the system to keep his team in it.

given he was cleared of any and all wrong-doing, no, he didnt realise this.

 

[Dexter]

He has still won 2 GFs since 2006 which like I said is officially better than Bellamy and equal to Hasler, that's a fact.

I don't have a problem with any team buying players as long as they do it within the rules that all teams are supposed to play under. I don't like it when certain teams do it because I hate those teams but as far as buying players goes all sides have a chance to go to market and buy the talent they are lacking.

As far as Newc are concerned, fair point, but to my eye they are turning a corner and are headed in the right direction, time will tell if I'm right.

As far as half the Dragons side pffft. 1 player he took was theirs to start with, Beau Scott the rest came from us and the Storm

1 Darius Boyd
2 James McManus
3 Dane Gagai
4 Anthony Quinn
5 Akuila Uate
6 Jarrod Mullen
7 Kurt Gidley (c)
8 Kade Snowden
9 Travis Waddell
10 Willie Mason
11 Beau Scott
12 Chris Houston
13 Jeremy Smith

Interchange
14 Tyrone Roberts
15 Neville Costigan
16 Robbie Rochow
17 Alex McKinnon

 

[Bucking Beads]

This topic is discussed every year. What a gee up

 

[Coxy]

Re: youth policy

given he was cleared of any and all wrong-doing, no, he didnt realise this.

Greg Bird was cleared too. I think it's highly naive to think Bellamy wasn't aware there were dodgy doings on the books.

However, on topic, I think OXY makes a good point that the competition has been so much harder to win consistently since they tightened the salary cap. The only consecutive grand final qualifiers never managed to win back to back titles (Roosters 2002-2004, only won 2002, and Storm 2006-09, won 2007, 2009 but since removed). Bellamy has undoubtedly been the standout coach of the last decade, and that's been built around the core of Cronk, Smith, Slater. Been plenty of quality players around them each year, but also a lot of workmen and average players who were coached simply to play their role. No more, no less.

So (putting aside deducted premierships), the most successful coaches since 2000 are:
1. Bellamy (3 premierships, 5 grand finals)
2. Wayne Bennett (3 premierships, 3 grand finals)
3. Des Hasler (2 premierships, 4 grand finals)

They're the only multiple premiership winners of the past 14 seasons.
Michael Hagan: 1
Ricky Stuart: 1 (3 GFs)
Tim Sheens: 1
John Lang: 1
Steve Folkes: 1

What's interesting about the multiple premiership winners? Both Bennett and Bellamy adopt an incredibly boring, suffocating style of football designed around maximising possession and field position, limiting errors in your own half and wearing your opposition down. The big difference is that at the Broncos, Bennett didn't always have a team capable of or suited for such a plan, but he moulded St George and now Newcastle into that style.

Bellamy meanwhile sticks rigidly to his team structure. Maintain his core 1, 7, 9, plonk someone with adequate ability in the 6, ensure you've got some finishers in 2,3,4,5 and then stack the forward pack with guys that will do what they're told and execute a plan, and train them until they're as fit as fit can be. It works great for him.

Des Hasler on the other hand is I think the most creative coach of the current generation. He gets his forwards doing a lot of the attack and relies less on his halves and fullback. The plan itself is not much more exciting than Bellamy, but he's had the advantage of some really exciting individual players who make things happen out wide (Barba now, Lyon at Manly etc).

Tying all this back to the Broncos recent struggles, we had Henjak who wanted to spurn the bash and barge but he went too far to sacrifice any real defensive structure at all. Griffin is the polar opposite, deadset focussed on defensive structures and no frills forward play, but there is no attacking game plan and he doesn't have a Locky who can just make something happen.

If I had a choice, I'd want Hasler to coach the Broncos. Despite being a dirty Manly prick.

 

[Anonymous person]

jeremy smith....adam cuthbertson....alex mckinnon

so those 3 + boyd + beau scott = 5 players following ol' mate wayne like lost puppies.

 

[Dexter]

Cuthbertson came from Manly via other clubs, Smith came from Storm. The point is they were not Saints players to start with so he is hardly raping the club when he took them to the club in the first place.

 

[Anonymous person]

oh so he.....didnt.....take Smith from the St George 2009/2010/2011 st george team that he coached? or Cuthbertson? ridiculous lol.

they played for st george, bennett left for newcastle, bennett signed them, they now play for newcastle. seriously, trying to say he didnt take 5 players from the dragons is beyond a joke.

smith is the only one where he didnt take directly from st george. but like ive said before, they may as well be the newcastle dragons.

 

[Big Dave]

McKinnon is from the Hunter

 

[Anonymous person]

McKinnon is from the Hunter

who did he play for in 2011?
who did he play for in 2012?
who did bennett coach in 2011?
who did bennett coach in 2012?

 

[Big Pete]

I don't see what's wrong with taking players with you that you helped develop into premiership winners.

It's not even new to Bennett. Let's not forget who the Broncos recruited in the early days and where they were from.

 

[Dexter]

oh so he.....didnt.....take Smith from the St George 2009/2010/2011 st george team that he coached? or Cuthbertson? ridiculous lol.

they played for st george, bennett left for newcastle, bennett signed them, they now play for newcastle. seriously, trying to say he didnt take 5 players from the dragons is beyond a joke.

smith is the only one where he didnt take directly from st george. but like ive said before, they may as well be the newcastle dragons.

The only Saints home grown player was Scott the rest came with Bennett and left before him or with him.

 

[Anonymous person]

so again - he didnt take them from St George to Newcastle?

 

[Bucking Beads]

I don't understand the problem with Bennett signing players. I am pretty certain that Bellamy signs players every year as well. It makes no sense to criticize a coach for trying to make his team stronger. Is it his fault that players enjoy playing under him and follow him? I wonder how many players at the Storm would follow Bellamy if he left.. I am certain some of them have get out clauses in their contract if he was to leave.