The Wayne Bennett Super thread!

[Dexter]

He learned everything he knows off Bennett though, refined it and taught that to Griffin. So thanks Bellamy for giving us that coach.

 

[john1420]

he was found to have no knowledge of the rorting. dont know how often this has to be repeated before some people get it into their head.

i don't care if he knew or not

the PROVEN FACT of the matter is that Bellamy had an illegal team, a team other coaches were legally prevented from building

the fact that an illegal team was able to defeat legal teams is hardly surprising, and is not testimony to Bellamy's coaching ability

he MAY be a brilliant coach, but he is yet to prove it

i just don't understand how this concept is difficult

 

[Anonymous person]

i don't care if he knew or not

the PROVEN FACT of the matter is that Bellamy had an illegal team, a team other coaches were legally prevented from building

the fact that an illegal team was able to defeat legal teams is hardly surprising, and is not testimony to Bellamy's coaching ability

he MAY be a brilliant coach, but he is yet to prove it

i just don't understand how this concept is difficult

so melbourne didnt win the premiership last year? or the minor premiership in 2011? with a team that was not only under the salary cap, but paying part of ex players salaries at other clubs? that doesnt prove hes a great coach?

and you cannot say with certainty that they wouldnt have kept smith/slater/cronk had they been under the salary cap. they have shown that pretty much the rest of the team is replaceable, its not hard to think that they couldve been just as successful if they were under the cap.

 

[Dexter]

You keep trotting that line out Ap but what other possible reason would a club have to establish a system of under the table illegal payments which they went to great lengths to cover up unless they were faced with the prospect of losing the players that made the difference between winning premierships or becoming also rans?

 

[Anonymous person]

prove to me that they wouldnt be there without them being over the cap and you have a case.

we'll never know. all we know is they got caught, got a huge punishment, lost players, then won the minor premiership the next year while being well under the cap, and won the premiership the year after while being under the cap. and people have the balls to say that bellamy hasnt proven anything as a coach lol.

 

[Dexter]

I'll use your own argument against you then. You can't prove that Bellamy is a good coach without his big 3. It's a stupid argument, of course he can coach.
Like wise your argument is stupid and I don't think you believe it either. Of course they were going to lose their big names.

Give me one good reason why a club would do what they did if they had another option that was cheaper, legal and they get to keep all their players.

 

[Anonymous person]

i can prove that actually.

look at the players around the big 3. they change a fair bit every year, yet the storm are consistently one of the best teams year in year out. 3 players dont win a football match, 13-17 do. if you have 3 superstars and 14 nuffies, then you better believe you need 1 hell of a gameplan if youre going to even be competitive. bellamy knows this, and he makes the team work around the superstars. when he loses someone, he simply drills another player into doing that persons job to perfection.

1 reason why they couldve done it is to stop players testing the open market. if you keep them happy they might not even be tempted to look elsewhere. if youre happy with your job and the money youre making, why look elsewhere? while they might have stayed for $500k, theyll DEFINITELY stay for $700k. so if you offer them the $700k and they accept, you cant rule out that they wouldve stayed for $500k.

 

[Dexter]

All that says is he can coach with the big three and 14 other players, it doesn't prove he can coach without the talent of probably 3 of the top 4 players in the world. Parra would be unbeatable with those 3 in the side. Like I said you can't say for certain.

Seriously Ap you can't tell me you believe that nonsense that a club would take that risk to keep players if they didn't have to.

 

[Big Pete]

He learned everything he knows off Bennett though, refined it and taught that to Griffin. So thanks Bellamy for giving us that coach.

Nah, Griffin had left by the time Craig arrived to Melbourne.

He learned what he knew from Muppet Murray and Chris Anderson.

 

[OXY-351]

prove to me that they wouldnt be there without them being over the cap and you have a case.

we'll never know. all we know is they got caught, got a huge punishment, lost players, then won the minor premiership the next year while being well under the cap, and won the premiership the year after while being under the cap. and people have the balls to say that bellamy hasnt proven anything as a coach lol.

I think Bellamy is a great coach. If he's not currently the best in the game, he's in the top 2. Depending on how long he coaches, he could go down as the the best coach of all time. He comes up with teams and game plans to suit those teams near perfectly, but I still think that whatever he acheives while Smith, Cronk and Slater are in his team is somewhat tainted.

Maybe they still would be in Melbourne if the Storm didn't cheat the cap, but the fact is they did cheat the cap and they are still there, when they possibly wouldn't be. As Dexter said, people don't cheat unless they feel they have a need to cheat. If they thought they would retain all those players regardless, why would they even bother?

I know they lost players after the scandal and are now under the cap, and they've still managed to be successful since then, which is a great acheivement from the team and coach, but I still think they would have had trouble retaining all 3 of those players around that time had they not cheated. I think the whole saga made the 3 of them more determined to stick it out at melbourne and prove to everyone they could still win the comp legitimately. Maybe they stayed around on less money than they could have got elsewhere because of this. They may be officially under the cap now, but they also may still be benefiting from the rort in certain ways. I don't think you can just stop a few years of cheating and expect the effects of that to dissappear over night. It could take a whole generation of players for them to dissappear.

Yes, we'll never know, and maybe all 3 of them would still be there regardless, but the fact is they cheated the salary cap, and this will forever have people asking questions while those big 3 are still in it imo.

 

[Coxy]

Exactly. The proof of Bellamy's true ability will come when the big 3 have moved on and whether he can conjure the same success with lesser players.

 

[Anonymous person]

He comes up with teams and game plans to suit those teams near perfectly

the 2012 Grand Final is pretty much the best example of this that you can ever find.

Barba cuts every team to pieces every week of the regular season. Melbourne completely take him out of the game in the Grand Final through a perfectly designed and executed gameplan.

 

[OXY-351]

the 2012 Grand Final is pretty much the best example of this that you can ever find.

Barba cuts every team to pieces every week of the regular season. Melbourne completely take him out of the game in the Grand Final through a perfectly designed and executed gameplan.

Agreed, perhaps the only better example may be Wayne Bennetts effort on Inglis in 2006

 

[Anonymous person]

that was an excellent one, but Bellamys wasnt just to take barba out of the game. that was one big part of it, but they also basically shut down every thing that had worked for the bulldogs all year, from barba to inu to their forwards ball-work.

 

[Dexter]

Bellamy outcoached Hasler completely in the 2012 GF. I was stunned Hasler didn't have a plan B.

All teams will use the Storms GF defence as a blueprint against the Dogs now so it will be interesting to watch Haslers response throughout the year.

 

[john1420]

so melbourne didnt win the premiership last year? or the minor premiership in 2011? with a team that was not only under the salary cap, but paying part of ex players salaries at other clubs? that doesnt prove hes a great coach?

and you cannot say with certainty that they wouldnt have kept smith/slater/cronk had they been under the salary cap. they have shown that pretty much the rest of the team is replaceable, its not hard to think that they couldve been just as successful if they were under the cap.

I didn't say anything about last year AP, and I certainly didn't mention anything about the minor premiership in 2011

I am sorry but that argument is silly

You are not a great coach because you got a team to the minor premiership, nor are you a great coach because you win one premiership

C'mon mate, not even you believe that

Greatness is measured over time, against adversity, and an equal playing field

What Bellamy has done post the cap saga is really good no question

But he is yet to stand the test of time and win multiple premierships across multiple teams to be ranked alongside the true greats

Perhaps he will as I have already said, but he has not proven anything yet, except that he can win by cheating and lose at the highest level when not cheating (SOO)

And given his post cap saga success, he has proven he has the potential to one day be thought of as one of the greats

 

[john1420]

prove to me that they wouldnt be there without them being over the cap and you have a case.

we'll never know. all we know is they got caught, got a huge punishment, lost players, then won the minor premiership the next year while being well under the cap, and won the premiership the year after while being under the cap. and people have the balls to say that bellamy hasnt proven anything as a coach lol.

Nobody has to prove it AP, nobody

Rules are rules

You cannot prove Ben Johnson wouldn't have won even if he didn't take drugs

Doesn't matter a sh!t

He did cheat, so he can't claim victory

Bellamy has proven he can rebuild a team after a disaster and then win a premeirship

This is to be admired

What he has not proven, is greatness

He may prove that, in time, but he hasn't yet

 

[john1420]

Exactly. The proof of Bellamy's true ability will come when the big 3 have moved on and whether he can conjure the same success with lesser players.

Call me cynical, but I would hazard a guess CB will retire before or when they move on

Won't want to risk his standing as a great coach :001_tt2: