The Wayne Bennett Super thread!

[Kimlo]

I've always rated Bennett as a great coach and definitely right up there with the best ever. If he wins the grand final this year then he will undoubtedly be the greatest rugby league coach to ever be involved in the game.

Anyone see the post match interview with Buderus? The first thing he said was Bennett is an amazing coach, you can just see the huge amount of respect his players have for him and for a "dads army", Newcastle are playing incredibly well.

 

[Manbush]

Bennett's only flaw as a coach is he doesn't leave teams better than he found them, Broncos, Dragons and while he is exceeding expectations at the knights recruiting senior citizens it would be my guess they'll be worse when he leaves than when he joined.

 

[KingWebcke]

good on Bennett for getting Newcastle up for the game, that is an impressive feat.

I don't think you can ignore the fact that the Knights have massively underperformed in the last 2 years though. I mean, on paper this Newcastle team should have been a top 4-5 team. so Bennett has got them to perform better than they did this season but right now I think they are just playing to the potential they should have been for ages

 

[Socnorb]

Bennett's only flaw as a coach is he doesn't leave teams better than he found them, Broncos, Dragons and while he is exceeding expectations at the knights recruiting senior citizens it would be my guess they'll be worse when he leaves than when he joined.

This such a lame statement . I would've expected better from you Bushie. He leases them in a worse state , sure , cos he's not there

 

[Manbush]

This such a lame statement . I would've expected better from you Bushie. He leases them in a worse state , sure , cos he's not there

Surely Bennett wasnt the difference from the Dragons being premiereship material to wooden spoon contenders, he pillaged their aging roster, Broncos squad was left worse (still reckon he deliberately sabotaged em by signing Izzy to a ridiculously large contract), Knights by recruiting senior citizens will retire when he leaves. Should be more focus on bringing through juniors and developing them to leave te club in a strong position.

 

[KingWebcke]

Surely Bennett wasnt the difference from the Dragons being premiereship material to wooden spoon contenders, he pillaged their aging roster, Broncos squad was left worse (still reckon he deliberately sabotaged em by signing Izzy to a ridiculously large contract), Knights by recruiting senior citizens will retire when he leaves. Should be more focus on bringing through juniors and developing them to leave te club in a strong position.

I think the Dragons are the only ones you can make a reasonable case for.

at the Knights, Bennett has recruited a tonne of old farts in the forward pack but he also has young guns ready to replace them. Smith, Scott, Mason, Faalogo will be replaced by Rochow, McKinnon, Frei and Sims, who are some of the best young forwards in the game. Just like Buderus has the talented young hooker coming up to take over (Clydesdale?)

 

[Socnorb]

He did nothing but develop talent for the broncos and the rest of the Nrl for 20 years. I would say that's a fair record.dragons underachieved before WB and after. No coincidence there.
There is one current coach who has a consistent record of leaving clubs in a sticky situation though.

 

[lynx000]

Bennett's only flaw as a coach is he doesn't leave teams better than he found them, Broncos, Dragons and while he is exceeding expectations at the knights recruiting senior citizens it would be my guess they'll be worse when he leaves than when he joined.

\

I agree and disagree with this comment probably equally. In terms of the saints, he was only there for a relatively short period of time, therefore, it probably wasn't really possible for him to set the foundations in place and to bring younger players through. To some extent he did this for example, de Bellin.

A lot of people seem to buy into the cult of Wayne, but WB is definitely not a saint. There is a healthy ego there, and therefore in some ways to see Saints and the Broncos not up at the same level as they were when he was at the respective clubs would not be disappointing for him.

Did he leave the broncos worse than he found them? They were still a top 8 roster when he left. Indeed, that roster should have gone close to a premiership in 2008. They made the finals in 2009, suffered Ivanitis in 2010 and missed the 8 (not sure you could lay the blame at Wayne's feet for that), were one game of the GF in 2011 (but for the unfortunate injury to Lockyer), made the 8 in 2012 and had the poor year this year. Is WB to blame for the AFL coming with a fistful of dollars (something that has never occurred before) to steal two of our best players, including our future captain? I don't think so.

Re the Saints, it appears that the they were coming to the end of their premiership window, and he got them the win they craved. So they were always going to face a rebuilding period after that. Has he pillaged their squad? To some extent yes, but once again moving to Newcastle, he was under pressure to have almost immediate success. We all know how well Tinkler enjoys a lack of success and his enthusiasm for firing people. Given that imperative, I could understand him picking some players that he trusted to address deficiencies in his squad. I don't know that it is wrong for a coach to recruit some of his former players.

Re the recruiting of old players for Newcastle, once again, I think that is a result of the imperative for immediate success.

 

[lynx000]

Can I add, that in terms of the young halfbacks running around, that Tyrone Roberts looks as though he is going to be something very special. When is his contract up?

 

[ivanhungryjak]

Let's face it, the Dragons and Knights didn't hire Benny to build a culture, they hired him to win a comp.

 

[Huge]

I would like to see the list of coaches who left the club they were employed by, in a better state. 99% of coaches leave the club in a worse state and unless I am silly, that's why they are gone ! For reasons unknown people seem to be looking for negatives where none exist. It cannot be said WB left the Broncos worse off than before as he was at the birth of the club. We can look to St George though. Were they better off without a premiership or were they a richer club for his coaching ? I know what the vast majority of fans have indicated, a deep feeling of gratitude and WB is welcome back anytime.

The claim that Newcastle have a stellar roster or that they should have achieved more is laughable. Newcastle has been a better team for WBs presence and if they fail after his departure it will be on their heads.

 

[Alec]

Newcastle definitely have a great roster. Mullen is one of the most underrated halves in the comp, and is easily the 2nd best NSW half after Carney. Mason and Snowden are a good front row, Scott, Rochow and Smith are an excellent back row. Boyd, McManus and Uate are a deadly back 3, and Gagai and Leilua are pretty damn good centres. Then you have guys like McKinnon/Costigan/Houston/Hilder/Gower too.

They have a great side, they probably underachieved a bit in the regular season (though I don't think they are quite a top 4 side), but they are lifting when it actually counts, in the finals.

 

[KingWebcke]

The claim that Newcastle have a stellar roster or that they should have achieved more is laughable. Newcastle has been a better team for WBs presence and if they fail after his departure it will be on their heads.

I really couldn't disagree more with this. I think all the compliments about Bennett at Newcastle are borne out of one win: i think if Newcastle had lost last night against Melbourne people would have a hard time saying that Bennett has done anything more than a passable job at Newcastle since he arrived.

on paper, Newcastle have a very strong side and this year and last. they should have made the finals both years, possibly even pushing for top 4 this year. they have a team that is filled with players playing/on the verge Origin and Test football: Boyd, Mullen, McManus, Uate, Snowden, Gidley, Smith along with some strong (although old) players like Buderus and Mason. that is a roster that many teams would be envious of.

Instead, they bombed last year and just made the finals this year in a pretty patchy season. winning in the finals can change that but I don't think anything can hide the fact that Newcastle have underperformed massively in the regular season since Bennett got there.

Before Bennett arrived, Newcastle had a much weaker side without the Tinkler-bought players like Boyd, Snowden, Smith, Scott, Rochow, Buderus. they were a pretty rad-tag team that relied on the ball-hog Gidley to lead them. And in that time they still made the finals twice in 3 years.

In effect, Newcastle have a way better side on paper since Bennett and Tinkler arrived but their results are pretty much the same as before they came. I think Bennett is a tremendous coach and he'll definitely be good for Newcastle in the future but at this stage, I don't think Bennett's two years in the Hunter valley are great examples of his ability.

 

[Huge]

All good points but the same can be said of many sides. Some of the players mentioned are reasonably good but how many were Origin players at this time ? How many are test standard ? Sure some could get a run but they didn't or never will. Players like Mason and Buderus were good in their time but now that time has passed. The roster is good but not great. It is an average strength NRL side. It is where it finds itself due in no small measure to the influence of WB , a fact widely acknowledged in the media. I have yet to hear that Newcastle has underachieved and WB is coaching poorly, that particular view seems to get the most support on this forum.

 

[KingWebcke]

All good points but the same can be said of many sides.

yeah, you're right. every year there are 10-11 teams who look like they have the potential to make the 8 and 5-6 teams who look like they are good enough to be top 4. but that is part of the issue here: you'd expect a coach like Bennett to actually get a team to deliver on that potential. instead, both years they've come in at the bottom/below the range of positions you'd expect of them

Some of the players mentioned are reasonably good but how many were Origin players at this time ? How many are test standard ? Sure some could get a run but they didn't or never will.

all of those players bar Mullen were or are still Origin or Test players during Bennett's reign. Boyd, Gidley and Smith are all consistent members of their respective teams (when not injured). Uate, Snowden and McManus have flirted with (and deserved) Origin selection during that time. evenBuderus was pretty close last year until he got injured

Players like Mason and Buderus were good in their time but now that time has passed.

Buderus and Mason were great in their time and are still good now. after watching Newcastle in 2012 it should be pretty hard to say that their time has passed; Buderus and Mason were the Knight's best players last year in my opinion. Mason has been very strong again this year and has been leading their forwards since Snowden got suspended. I think Bedsey is still playing well too, he tackles like a maniac.

It is where it finds itself due in no small measure to the influence of WB , a fact widely acknowledged in the media. I have yet to hear that Newcastle has underachieved and WB is coaching poorly, that particular view seems to get the most support on this forum.

I think this just shows that we all hear what we want to because i'm quite new around here but I'm no stranger to the view that Newcastle has underachieved. I don't think it is an opinion unique to disgruntled BHQ members

 

[Huge]

We will have to disagree. Worth noting however is the predictions from early this year. Most predicted Newcastle to finish at best 5th and further on down. If the roster was as strong as you say then top 4 should have been an almost universal selection I would think. The Broncos had seven or so current Origin/ Test reps including Reed who I'd say would struggle to make the Origin side for either state.

Irrespective of Masons rep history he was not considered for Origin this year. The media has portrayed Newcastle as dads army blended with a sprinkling of youth. What they have never said is that the side is laden with talent, quite the contrary in fact. Anyhoo, I respect your right to see what you wish to see. If you believe the side is on par with the upper echelon then so be it.

 

[KingWebcke]

Worth noting however is the predictions from early this year. Most predicted Newcastle to finish at best 5th and further on down. If the roster was as strong as you say then top 4 should have been an almost universal selection I would think.

that is a quite a twist of what I said. I think they had a very good squad who should have comfortably made the finals and they could have potentially been a top 4 side. I don't think that means that if other people agreed with me they should have been nearly universally selected as a top 4 side.

and i don't see how much relevance the Broncos are here. we may have a lot of rep players but I don't think that means we have the same kind of squad as Newcastle:
firstly, some of our "representative" players are guys like Reed, who are only "rep" players because they nominated to play for a shit nation - whereas I think most of Newcastle's representative players are genuinely deserving of their places.
secondly, none of our rep players are in key positions (except for Hoffman). It doesn't really matter how many Origin players you have in your squad if you have a shit halfback and an erratic fullback, five-eight and hooker. Newcastle obviously don't have that same issue: their hooker, halves and fullback are close to their best players

Irrespective of Masons rep history he was not considered for Origin this year.

Mason did get a lot of consideration for Origin if the papers are to be believed. he was asked to play in City-Country and there was quite a lot of talk about him being picked. the impression I got was that he was just on the outer of the squad, a bit behind Aaron Woods. I think it would have been a mistake to pick him but he is still playing very good quality football.

 

[Anonymous person]

the way some of you guys are carrying on youd think the knights were the wooden spooners for 3 decades straight before bennett took over, and hes now taken them to the minor premiership on the back of an undefeated season and are now in the grand final after beating teams 2 and 3 a combined 300 to nil. seriously.

in his 2 years there he has bought a huge amount of talent (including lots of recent/current rep players) to go with the already existing talent (including recent/current rep players). he took a team that had made the 8 the previous year with a worse roster, and missed the finals in his first year, after being the laughing stock of the NRL for at least half the year. a team with more rep players than any other team, literally, and they played like a bunch of school girls for half the year.

now in his second year they literally scraped into the finals winning less than half their matches, got VERY lucky in the fact that they played the only team in the 8 worse than them in round 1, who the 12th placed BRONCOS had beaten the week before, who put in one of the worst displays of finals football ever seen, who lost their star player to injury during the match, and were on the wrong end of a huge penalty count.

then in week 2 they come up against the reigning premiers who have, basically since state of origin for the most part, been dead on their feet. slater is playing busted, has been all year. smiths goal kicking has been atrocious, and hes been playing extremely poorly by his standards. many called his game last week (or the week before?) the worst game hes ever played. cronk, the usually pinpoint accurate and extremely focused fella, has been passing to the ground/over the sideline/forward and kicking out on the full at least once or twice a game for weeks. theyve been a shell of their former self, and everyone has been noticing and saying as much in the last few weeks. despite what you guys are saying, MANY people expected newcastle to beat the storm - i was even one of them, having said so on here and then also to the people i was out with on saturday night hours before the game.

it wasnt some genius coaching or gameplan that bennett came up with, it was just beating a team who was out on their legs from the get go. throw in another few dubious referee calls, like slater getting blatantly taken out about 30m out, right in front, at 18-16 and no penalty being awarded which wouldve evened the scores, and its really not that big of a feat.

also, to those saying the head clash was the correct turnover call - pull the other one. firstly, when someone gets their jaw broken in a tackle and drops the ball from it, they generally dont call a knock on. they give the ball to someone else and its play the ball. not for a non-nsw team in a final though! secondly, yes the damage was from the head clash..............but the head clash only occurred because he went charging in and did a shoulder charge! you cant disregard the illegal shoulder charge just because it wasnt his shoulder that did the damage. the crowd were booing because there was a shoulder charge, and it should have been penalised.

but now of course everyone, as they are in here, will be singing his praises and saying it proves hes still the greatest coach ever. despite the fact that his team finished on more losses than wins. despite the fact they finished 7th, only like 1 win ahead of 11th. despite the fact that noone really gives them any chance of winning the grand final even though theyre in the qualifying final. despite the fact that on paper their team shouldve been pushing the top 4, especially with the rubbish the rest of the competition has thrown up this year. like people did for many years, theyll see the broncos finished 6-8th and say "wow what a fantastic year! success all around!!! job well done!" despite the fact that we scraped in the finals and got smashed, theyll see newcastle made the qualifying final and say that means bennett is a genius because he took at team that missed the 8 the previous year to the qualifying final, overlooking the fact that he was the coach that coached them to missing the finals.