CRICKET Third Test- Australia v South Africa

Fucking Sydney... do we ever get a full test there
 
Sydney right now..
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Obvious thing to say now but if they picked Agar for his ability with the bat as opposed to someone like Swepson, they were wasting their time
 
Obvious thing to say now but if they picked Agar for his ability with the bat as opposed to someone like Swepson, they were wasting their time
All the talk was that the pitch would be a raging turner so having some extra batting coverage could've been needed.

Instead Sydney put out a lifeless slow pitch with rain all around... may as well just hope to bat once and bowl them out twice.

Don't even know how they avoided putting out a green monster with all the rain that's been around down there
 
When was the last time Sydney was turning sideways?

That seems to be the common theory about playing there but I haven't seen it lately, at least the South African spinners aren't getting a whole lot out there anyway
 
You know what, they are going to have to take a massive risk here and bat tomorrow morning and just go nuts from ball 1. Get out or get another 100 really fast and then hope they can enforce the follow on, otherwise, this game is already heading to a draw. Luckily, only Cummins is likely to feature as a pace bowler next test dependent on Starc's availability and the next test is a month away, so plenty of time to recover if they have to bowl themselves into the ground.
 
When was the last time Sydney was turning sideways?

That seems to be the common theory about playing there but I haven't seen it lately, at least the South African spinners aren't getting a whole lot out there anyway

Green got 9 on debut there a month ago and 20 wickets fell to spin. It will be later than day two and the marks might never appear now that they have had less bowling on it.
 
Interesting comments from Smith about not sure how long he will go on for. Australia might be needing to replace all of Warner, Khawaja, Smith, Lyon and Starc in the next 12-18 months. Not sure who the next ones in line are. You would think this is a concern for Cricket Australia.

Contenders:

Openers
Hunt, Ward, Pucovski, Harris, Renshaw, Street, Chandrasinghe, Whiteman, Bancroft, Hughes, Jewell, Burns

I reckon these are the choices and some of those are extremely speculative like Jewell and Chandrasinghe and others are old like Burns and Whiteman, so really you are looking at Harris, Hunt, Ward, Pucovski, Bancroft and Renshaw. Pucovski would be comfortably next in line but we all know the issues there. Harris will likely be a stop gap and really shouldn't be, he has had plenty of chances and just disappointed so badly in all of them. This is a problem area.

Number 4 - Smith's spot
Green, Patterson, Hardie, Phillippe, Inglis, Handscomb, Kellaway, Kerr, M.Marsh, McSweeney, Wyllie, J.Sangha, Cartwright, Henriques, Clayton, D.Short, M.Short, Turner, O.Davies, Fraser-McGurk, Sutherland, Doran, J.Edwards, Maddinson, McDermott, Gilkes

This is just about all the current and just starting middle order players around, so again most of them are not even close to being in contention. You would think that the choice will come down to promoting Green (most obvious and likely best option) and bringing in someone at 6. Which to me, means you are looking at a slimmed down list of Hardie, Patterson, Phillippe, Inglis, McSweeney and Kellaway. It is too soon for Wyllie, Fraser-McGurk and neither they or most of the other options above are consistent enough to be in contention. You do have the option to bat Carey at 6 and then pick another all-rounder type at 7 in either Hardie or Sutherland, both of whom I think will eventually play for Australia. So from the narrowed down list, obviously Phillippe and Inglis have long been touted as the next big things but their records just don't back it up. Kellaway looks extremely promising and did very well in the tour game which put his name up in lights but like Wyllie, right now it is too soon, but what about in 18 months' time? McSweeney MIGHT be the next Labushagne. Although his record isn't great thus far, there is something elegant about him.

Pace Bowler:
Boland, Morris, J.Richardson, Neser, Paris, Ellis, Sandhu, Steketee, Abbott, W.Agar, Meredith, Tremain, Bartlett, Sutherland, Buckingham, Neill-Smith, Doggett, M.Kelly, Guthrie, Scott, Perry, McClure

Australia is not wanting in this department. You could probably run out three pace attacks and they would be world class. Obviously, J.Richardson is the best of the lot but will injury let him fulfil his potential? Aside from that, pretty much pick a name out of a hat, all of Morris, Steketee, Neser, Sandhu, Paris, Ellis, Abbott, Tremain, Sutherland and Boland are good enough / likely good enough.

Spinner:
Murphy, A.Agar, T.Sangha, Kuhnemann, Swepson, Rocchicioli or something, Freeman and Manenti

The cupboard is not as bare as it once was. T.Sangha is a concern as he has been robbed a year of development this year due to stress fractures in his back. Murphy is the closest thing you are going to get to a Lyon-clone, he'll play a lot of tests for Australia but how T.Sangha kicks on or doesn't will determine whether that is as first or second choice. Manenti is a fun cricketer, a bit of a Greg Matthews, I like him a lot but doubt he will ever make it as a first choice spinner.

So who are your picks for openers, no.4, next paceman and spinner?

Mine:
Pucovski
Renshaw
Green (4)
Hardie (7)
J.Richardson
Murphy (Sangha if he comes back well)
 
Interesting comments from Smith about not sure how long he will go on for. Australia might be needing to replace all of Warner, Khawaja, Smith, Lyon and Starc in the next 12-18 months. Not sure who the next ones in line are. You would think this is a concern for Cricket Australia.

Contenders:

Openers
Hunt, Ward, Pucovski, Harris, Renshaw, Street, Chandrasinghe, Whiteman, Bancroft, Hughes, Jewell, Burns

I reckon these are the choices and some of those are extremely speculative like Jewell and Chandrasinghe and others are old like Burns and Whiteman, so really you are looking at Harris, Hunt, Ward, Pucovski, Bancroft and Renshaw. Pucovski would be comfortably next in line but we all know the issues there. Harris will likely be a stop gap and really shouldn't be, he has had plenty of chances and just disappointed so badly in all of them. This is a problem area.

Number 4 - Smith's spot
Green, Patterson, Hardie, Phillippe, Inglis, Handscomb, Kellaway, Kerr, M.Marsh, McSweeney, Wyllie, J.Sangha, Cartwright, Henriques, Clayton, D.Short, M.Short, Turner, O.Davies, Fraser-McGurk, Sutherland, Doran, J.Edwards, Maddinson, McDermott, Gilkes

This is just about all the current and just starting middle order players around, so again most of them are not even close to being in contention. You would think that the choice will come down to promoting Green (most obvious and likely best option) and bringing in someone at 6. Which to me, means you are looking at a slimmed down list of Hardie, Patterson, Phillippe, Inglis, McSweeney and Kellaway. It is too soon for Wyllie, Fraser-McGurk and neither they or most of the other options above are consistent enough to be in contention. You do have the option to bat Carey at 6 and then pick another all-rounder type at 7 in either Hardie or Sutherland, both of whom I think will eventually play for Australia. So from the narrowed down list, obviously Phillippe and Inglis have long been touted as the next big things but their records just don't back it up. Kellaway looks extremely promising and did very well in the tour game which put his name up in lights but like Wyllie, right now it is too soon, but what about in 18 months' time? McSweeney MIGHT be the next Labushagne. Although his record isn't great thus far, there is something elegant about him.

Pace Bowler:
Boland, Morris, J.Richardson, Neser, Paris, Ellis, Sandhu, Steketee, Abbott, W.Agar, Meredith, Tremain, Bartlett, Sutherland, Buckingham, Neill-Smith, Doggett, M.Kelly, Guthrie, Scott, Perry, McClure

Australia is not wanting in this department. You could probably run out three pace attacks and they would be world class. Obviously, J.Richardson is the best of the lot but will injury let him fulfil his potential? Aside from that, pretty much pick a name out of a hat, all of Morris, Steketee, Neser, Sandhu, Paris, Ellis, Abbott, Tremain, Sutherland and Boland are good enough / likely good enough.

Spinner:
Murphy, A.Agar, T.Sangha, Kuhnemann, Swepson, Rocchicioli or something, Freeman and Manenti

The cupboard is not as bare as it once was. T.Sangha is a concern as he has been robbed a year of development this year due to stress fractures in his back. Murphy is the closest thing you are going to get to a Lyon-clone, he'll play a lot of tests for Australia but how T.Sangha kicks on or doesn't will determine whether that is as first or second choice. Manenti is a fun cricketer, a bit of a Greg Matthews, I like him a lot but doubt he will ever make it as a first choice spinner.

So who are your picks for openers, no.4, next paceman and spinner?

Mine:
Pucovski
Renshaw
Green (4)
Hardie (7)
J.Richardson
Murphy (Sangha if he comes back well)
Howie talked to Smith this morning and he said he has no plans on going anywhere anytime soon
 
Howie talked to Smith this morning and he said he has no plans on going anywhere anytime soon

Still, he is the wrong side of 33 now, so it is only a matter of time. They need to start future proofing the team anyway. It would be good to get a younger middle order bat around the side for tours. Like for India, if they take a 16 man squad plus some younger shadow players, I'd like to see something like:

Bats:
Khawaja, Warner, Labs, Smith, Head, Renshaw
McSweeney/Kellaway (shadow)

All-Rounders:
Green, Hardie

Keeper:
Carey
Inglis (shadow)

Pacemen:
Cummins (c), Starc, Boland, J.Richardson
Sutherland (shadow)

Spinners
Lyon, Agar (I wouldn't pick him but I know they will), Murphy
T.Sangha (shadow)

Now the shadow players might be best used for England when there is no Shield cricket on because this is one issue with the India tour for players not in the 11, if they are not playing, they are basically sitting around doing nothing.
 
Still, he is the wrong side of 33 now, so it is only a matter of time. They need to start future proofing the team anyway. It would be good to get a younger middle order bat around the side for tours. Like for India, if they take a 16 man squad plus some younger shadow players, I'd like to see something like:

Bats:
Khawaja, Warner, Labs, Smith, Head, Renshaw
McSweeney/Kellaway (shadow)

All-Rounders:
Green, Hardie

Keeper:
Carey
Inglis (shadow)

Pacemen:
Cummins (c), Starc, Boland, J.Richardson
Sutherland (shadow)

Spinners
Lyon, Agar (I wouldn't pick him but I know they will), Murphy
T.Sangha (shadow)

Now the shadow players might be best used for England when there is no Shield cricket on because this is one issue with the India tour for players not in the 11, if they are not playing, they are basically sitting around doing nothing.
It would be nice to future plan, but when it comes to the Aust test team you kind of need to do that by playing them rather than them just hanging around the group.

Sweppo was the incumbent second spinner and sat on the bench for about 3yrs only to play 4 matches... now he's dropping down the pecking order and other guys are considered to be jumping above him.

Above all else the test team is still a rep side so when it comes time to replace Smith, Warner, Uzzie, etc. you hope that the player gives the selectors enough warning and then you start looking at who's next inline.

Head and Green are both in the team along with Marnus so that's 3 of your top 6 under 30yr old. Renshaw is also back in the fold. From that group I'd say Head is a life long no. 5... Green can move into 3/4 with Marnus and Renshaw is an opener.

We're not always going to have a young stud like Punter that can come into the team at 18 and stay there for a decade... and because it's a rep team you can still look to debut a 30yr like Hussey did and get 5yrs of quality out of them.

One thing that I would like to see as part of future proofing is exposing the next group of players to all conditions... get them playing County Cricket and setup Aust A tours in SE Asia, South Africa, etc. Have them using the Duke ball in Shield cricket and making the pitches challenging. I think they're doing most of this at the moment so we may start to see if it works with the next generation of players, but I'm unsure if the Aust Board is 'sponsoring' players for County Cricket seasons.

One thing that still looks to be an issue is our batters inability to play spin, with so many wickets still happening because they miss the straight ones. I'd suggest that may be one of the highest priority things Aust Cricket needs to address.

It's harder to do that with Aust A teams, because they may be more like part time players... they themselves have to consider whether they can take time off to play in overseas tours or County... so the ACB need to remunerate them appropriately and that's where the future proofing comes from... who to invest in and for how long do they string them along.
 
It would be nice to future plan, but when it comes to the Aust test team you kind of need to do that by playing them rather than them just hanging around the group.

Sweppo was the incumbent second spinner and sat on the bench for about 3yrs only to play 4 matches... now he's dropping down the pecking order and other guys are considered to be jumping above him.

Above all else the test team is still a rep side so when it comes time to replace Smith, Warner, Uzzie, etc. you hope that the player gives the selectors enough warning and then you start looking at who's next inline.

Head and Green are both in the team along with Marnus so that's 3 of your top 6 under 30yr old. Renshaw is also back in the fold. From that group I'd say Head is a life long no. 5... Green can move into 3/4 with Marnus and Renshaw is an opener.

We're not always going to have a young stud like Punter that can come into the team at 18 and stay there for a decade... and because it's a rep team you can still look to debut a 30yr like Hussey did and get 5yrs of quality out of them.

One thing that I would like to see as part of future proofing is exposing the next group of players to all conditions... get them playing County Cricket and setup Aust A tours in SE Asia, South Africa, etc. which I think they're doing more of at the moment, but I'm unsure if the Aust Board is 'sponsoring' players for County Cricket seasons.

It's harder to do that with Aust A teams, because they may be more like part time players... they themselves have to consider whether they can take time off to play in overseas tours or County... so the ACB need to remunerate them appropriately and that's where the future proofing comes from... who to invest in and for how long do they string them along.

Very well said and this is really why I've gone the idea of shadow players. They aren't officially in the test side but they are over there at least in and around the group. If there is an injury, these guys don't go picked even if you have to fly in someone older but closer to the side.

I like your idea and if you do target the best younger prospects and provide them with some security, you could do what India has kind of been doing a lot and have Aus A tours regularly. Either put them on at the same time as the tests in the same locations OR make them different times but regardless, you are doing that very important step you mentioned of exposing these guys to very alien conditions to what they are used to.
 
Very well said and this is really why I've gone the idea of shadow players. They aren't officially in the test side but they are over there at least in and around the group. If there is an injury, these guys don't go picked even if you have to fly in someone older but closer to the side.

I like your idea and if you do target the best younger prospects and provide them with some security, you could do what India has kind of been doing a lot and have Aus A tours regularly. Either put them on at the same time as the tests in the same locations OR make them different times but regardless, you are doing that very important step you mentioned of exposing these guys to very alien conditions to what they are used to.
I would love if they had an Aust A tour going at the same time as the main series.

I think it could be easier for India, because the IPL is assisting them in remunerating the players.

Young cricketers over there can see a professional career in cricket if they can jag a spot in T20's... although something that won't be helping them is preventing Indian players from participating in other T20 comps around the world.

But what they do have in the IPL is players basically being able to be full time professionals through their 'Shield' setup... they can devote 100% of their time to improving as cricketers... whereas guys in the Aust setup are still making bats, etc. to earn a wage.

More investment may be required at the shield level (coaching, wages, etc.) and preparing the next group of players to come into the international teams.

They've just signed a massive TV deal and you hope some of that is filtering down to the shield setup. Maybe give each team enough money to support a Top 11 (outside the Aust players) as a fulltime wage... basically a salary cap. That way the Shield teams are identifying the best talents coming through their setups rather than the Aust selectors having to do it from distance
 
I would love if they had an Aust A tour going at the same time as the main series.

I think it could be easier for India, because the IPL is assisting them in remunerating the players.

Young cricketers over there can see a professional career in cricket if they can jag a spot in T20's... although something that won't be helping them is preventing Indian players from participating in other T20 comps around the world.

But what they do have in the IPL is players basically being able to be full time professionals through their 'Shield' setup... they can devote 100% of their time to improving as cricketers... whereas guys in the Aust setup are still making bats, etc. to earn a wage.

More investment may be required at the shield level (coaching, wages, etc.) and preparing the next group of players to come into the international teams.

They've just signed a massive TV deal and you hope some of that is filtering down to the shield setup. Maybe give each team enough money to support a Top 11 (outside the Aust players) as a fulltime wage... basically a salary cap. That way the Shield teams are identifying the best talents coming through their setups rather than the Aust selectors having to do it from distance

India has a massive population as well obviously, so the chance of unearthing an unknown gem is MUCH higher than in Australia such as Arshdeep Singh. And really, Australia is going to have to be very lucky to identify the correct youngsters. There has been a bit of that already with NSW and that hasn't gone great with the likes of J.Sangha and J.Edwards, neither looks like they will give a return on the massive investment. So you either need to cast a wide net with less support or a small net with more support and risk missing some of the really good kids and losing them to the AFL which is the massive risk to losing the best young cricketers.

But surely, CA must make enough money to have their centralised contracts as they do currently AND provide like 20-30 contracts per state PLUS another full-time development list under that. All-in-all, we are talking like 500 players MAX overall.

And even go with the IPL model to an extent, instead of bringing in useless overseas hacks, give these next gen kids a shot...they can't be any worse than that bloke bowling last night or that Heat ring in.
 
India has a massive population as well obviously, so the chance of unearthing an unknown gem is MUCH higher than in Australia such as Arshdeep Singh. And really, Australia is going to have to be very lucky to identify the correct youngsters. There has been a bit of that already with NSW and that hasn't gone great with the likes of J.Sangha and J.Edwards, neither looks like they will give a return on the massive investment. So you either need to cast a wide net with less support or a small net with more support and risk missing some of the really good kids and losing them to the AFL which is the massive risk to losing the best young cricketers.

But surely, CA must make enough money to have their centralised contracts as they do currently AND provide like 20-30 contracts per state PLUS another full-time development list under that. All-in-all, we are talking like 500 players MAX overall.

And even go with the IPL model to an extent, instead of bringing in useless overseas hacks, give these next gen kids a shot...they can't be any worse than that bloke bowling last night or that Heat ring in.
I like the wider net more so than focussed... if you reduce the scope then you run the risk of putting your eggs in the one basket.

Need to give guys on the periphery the opportunity to make cricket their career without needing to be a 100 test match player.

If they can't see a career in cricket without needing to be an international then that's when you lose them to other sports. AFL and NRL offer opportunity to players via their domestic competitions rather than needing to be in a rep team.

The large number of T20 comps popping up around the world is starting to represent a global 'domestic' scene to support cricketing careers... unfortunately it means players will adapt to the worst form of the game and test match cricket will suffer because of it
 
Ground staff out on the ground with blowers trying to dry the areas around the pitch square.

Isa made a good point regarding the covers, where England have covers for the entire ground at the Oval compared to here where we are now going to be delayed waiting for the ground to dry out, because there's mud formed on the edges of the pitch square.

With the amount of rain delays that occur in Sydney how have they not looked into better covers??

If they had better covers we could be looking to start now instead of guys running around with leaf blowers for an hour
 

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